Dog attack! What to do?

[Horsegal984]

[QUOTE=talkofthetown;7142707]
As a side note, OP, for goodness sake if you feel the need to carry a gun, then carry one! #1, just because you have it on you does not mean you will draw and fire upon the cane corso. If you’re afraid that you might be tempted, or if you don’t have the willpower to not shoot, then by all means do not carry. Ever. #2 You paid for your CCP, and you have every right to carry if you so choose. #3, you might not need a gun to protect yourself or your dog from the Cane Corso, but what if you were to run into a rabid coyote, or a strange man that was coming after you, or…?
Off my soapbox, now, I just don’t want you to leave your protection at home, just because some BB posters thought you shouldn’t carry it.[/QUOTE]

Because some of us would like to not see her lose her CCL over a poor decision. OP stated she did not even own a gun yet, so while (general) you may be a good shot you cannot consider yourself well trained with a gun you’ve never fired. OP also stated this was federal land, which is a gun free zone. With only a few select exceptions any federal property is a no carry, concealed or open. OP also froze up in this situation, from the sound of things twice now. What makes you think that she would be able to smoothly and safely unholster her gun and react accordingly without an accidental discharge? It takes a lot of time and practice with your personal weapon and holster before errors are eliminated.

Not a single poster has suggested the OP not protect herself. We just suggested she do so safely and legally so she doesn’t risk winding up in jail for doing so. She certainly can’t take care of her dogs from there.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Jaideux;7142492]
Just want to suggest that the fact the OP’s dog is elderly is irrelevant. It’s not like a stranger dog can likely go “Oh, my, that is a delicate senior citizen!”, at least from the distance when it first makes eye contact/the decision to approach. Also, my dog may be young and athletic and recover faster from a fight, but it doesn’t mean my dog is any more “deserving” to be assaulted. No dog should be attacked by another dog, regardless of age or health status.

Please forgive me if this was addressed, but is this an approved location to walk off-leash? If you at least start using a leash you’ll have a better leg to stand on when you report this fellow. Are you handy with a camera phone? Snap a picture of the offending vehicle, owner and dog and take it to the authorities. Network with others who may use the park, too, and create some peer pressure for this fellow to start using a leash or find a new park.

And if they make them, a like, walking stick/tazer combo could be an effective deterrent (that is also long enough to use without risking your own arm, and could potentially be brandished but not necessarily used). Of course I don’t want your own dog to suffer, but what about something that make a noise that is noxious to dogs to make it less appealing for that dog to come near you?

I really feel for you. My dog can be fear aggressive with bigger dogs (she’s only 50 lbs, so there are enough of them out there); we let her sort it out with the in-law’s obnoxious Boxer because 1) they have to see each other often 2) it was “in-family” so if anything unfortunate happened, there was a relationship and a mutual understanding already in place, and 3) the Boxer’s owners really wanted him to learn some inter-dog manners (he really is obnoxious…). They’re good buddies now, but it’s not worth it for us to spend the time and risk trying to socialize her with other dogs. We don’t take her to dog parks or on walks in the woods anymore because of that, too. We’ve met too many apparently friendly dogs off-leash who seem to come out of nowhere and, in their eagerness, bum rush our dog who gets testy within a minute or so, faster than the owners can catch up to the dog who ran around the corner ahead of them.

Finally, I would definitely suggest making a paper trail. In the awful event you have to act to prevent this dog from hurting you or your dog, and that dog gets hurt/killed in the process, the he said/she said will be easier on you if the police already have logged your complaints and there has been reasonable other attempts to mitigate this.

I can’t even imagine being in that scenario but instead of “friendly” it’s an aggressive approach. Good luck![/QUOTE]

your very first sentence in your post proves how little you truly know about dogs.

[cnvh]

Wait, what?

[QUOTE=chaserider;7142172]
Thank you, vacation1. I, too, wonder how long it will be before this dog attacks a puppy being walked by a child and bad stuff follows.

I get it, people. No, I will not carry a gun. I think I said that quite a few posts ago. Heck, I won’t even go to the woods anymore. I’ll just let the asshat have it all to himself. He wins. Bullying wins.

How was he bullying you? He apologized. You say he did so flippantly. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t.

The fact that I just bought a house half a block from these woods so I could walk my dogs offleash there is secondary, I guess. The fact that this guy drives from someplace else and parks down the street from my house so he can do the same is also not the issue, apparently.

Do you own the woods in question? No? Then he has just as much of a right to be there as you do. You don’t get any advantage just because you live across the street. You want private property, buy your own private property.

His response as I checked my lab for bite marks was “Johnny, say you’re sorry” and as I walked my dogs away, crying, his parting remark was “sorry, hon” in a flippant manner.

I was angry when I wrote my original post and I’m sorry if I came across as a crazed nutjob. Now I’m just disappointed. In the owner, in his dog, in myself for putting my dogs in that position, in not handling this situation better, and in some of your responses.

I am embarrassed that I put this out to the public and opened myself up, expecting understanding and outrage on my dogs’ behalf.

Lesson learned.[/QUOTE]

How is it that people expect a “pass” for not standing up for themselves appropriately?! Put on your big-girl panties and deal with the situation like a grown-up. Nowhere did you way the owner was behaving in a threatening manner-- I don’t care how scary he looks or how scary his dog looks; you march over and you use your words and you SAY SOMETHING TO HIM if you have a problem with him and/or his dog.

Frankly I can’t believe you even would consider a gun to be appropriate in this situation. You can try to backpedal on that one all you want, but THAT’S the kind of thinking that gives gun owners a bad reputation-- “I’m too afraid to face this like a grown-up, so I’ll just shoot stuff instead.” (And before anyone jumps all over me, I AM a gun owner.)

[Rallycairn]

Thank you for continuing to comment, Horsegal. Looking back at my (too long) first post on this thread, I realized I got into talking about checking on the leash laws and stuff like that because the OP’s questions in her original post were,

“My question: what are my rights? I have a concealed carry license but don’t even own a gun. Should I start carrying just in case I have to shoot this dog before it harms one of mine?”

So that’s what prompted me to think it was important to be sure that dogs really were allowed off-leash in this “state land” – and OP said land, not park, so I’m not picturing an area with rangers, etc. – which may not be correct, I’m just saying that’s the impression I got.

And then OP brings up getting a gun, and that just seemed like such a huge escalation given what the OP had described in her first post. Absolutely I think the other dog should not have bothered her dogs in any way, but since her dogs were not hurt by her own account, preparing to shoot the other dog seemed like a really, really extreme response to me. And it still does.

Especially now that the OP has added further detail and said that she was crying and upset. Perfectly understandable but in no way the condition anyone should be in before pulling out a firearm to shoot at anything. As others have pointed out, in the heat of the moment her own dog could be hit, a person could be hit, she could hurt herself, etc. etc.

No one said the guy wasn’t an ass either, cause certainly seems to be an inconsiderate jerk and then some, but the OP asked what her rights were and should she carry a gun. So we all tried to think through those specific questions.

And the behaviorist in me still wants to point out that we don’t know the specific nature of what the other dog did. Again, “attack” alone is nonspecific – was this a hackles raised and stiff-legged approach? were her dogs thrown down? pinned down? growled at? What?

These aren’t academic questions but trying to decide whether the other dog’s behavior was aggressive or just normal dog-dog jockeying for position. If the dog mouthed her dogs at any point, but there still haven’t been bites/broken skin, the other dog was indeed showing bite inhibition, and that is a good piece of information to know.

That doesn’t make whatever it did acceptable to the OP, but to me the dog also shouldn’t be presumed to be guilty of something it hasn’t even done yet, or shot because it might do something. Best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Two encounters with elderly dogs and no one has been hurt == yet several feel shooting this dog is justified?

Very sorry the OP has to deal with this situation, though, for sure. It was upsetting for her to deal with the other dog and the clueless inconsiderate owner. And ridiculous to feel uncomfortable in an area that was formerly a favorite walking area so close to her home. I would be incredibly upset myself. But I wouldn’t even think of bringing a gun into the situation, because it seems unwarranted to me just based on what the dog has done so far and more importantly because of the very real danger to the OP’s own dog, the OP, any other passerby, etc.

Sorry for yet another lengthy post but these are very important issues to think through carefully and I think we’ve gotten some great perspectives and different points of view on the thread.

[wendy]

If you seriously believe the dog attacked yours, I would report it to the police. If the dog is going around attacking other dogs, and enough people report it, they can do something. Try to get the license number off the car.
whether your dog is leashed or not is rather irrelevant, legal or not. leashed dogs can and do get attacked.

[talkofthetown]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;7142790]
Because some of us would like to not see her lose her CCL over a poor decision. OP stated she did not even own a gun yet, so while (general) you may be a good shot you cannot consider yourself well trained with a gun you’ve never fired. OP also stated this was federal land, which is a gun free zone. With only a few select exceptions any federal property is a no carry, concealed or open. OP also froze up in this situation, from the sound of things twice now. What makes you think that she would be able to smoothly and safely unholster her gun and react accordingly without an accidental discharge? It takes a lot of time and practice with your personal weapon and holster before errors are eliminated.

Not a single poster has suggested the OP not protect herself. We just suggested she do so safely and legally so she doesn’t risk winding up in jail for doing so. She certainly can’t take care of her dogs from there.[/QUOTE]

No, you’re right. I admit that I was skimming, and I thought that the gist of what people were saying was OP being afraid for herself and dog, wanting to carry for protection, and most people saying to not retaliate, period. Misinterpreted the tone of the posts, sorry.:uhoh:

[threedogpack]

@Jaideux;7142492

Just want to suggest that the fact the OP’s dog is elderly is irrelevant. It’s not like a stranger dog can likely go “Oh, my, that is a delicate senior citizen!”, at least from the distance when it first makes eye contact/the decision to approach. Also, my dog may be young and athletic and recover faster from a fight, but it doesn’t mean my dog is any more “deserving” to be assaulted. No dog should be attacked by another dog, regardless of age or health status.

no where did I say the word deserving. I was addressing the issue that other posters were saying because there were no puncture wounds, it was not a fight. It does matter how old and creaky a dog is, not because it means anything other than an old, creaky dog cannot move as fast which = increased potential damage (in this situation). It does not mean it’s ok for a rude dog to get in a personal space bubble of any dog.

[Burbank]

you can carry a cattle prod, better accuracy and longer reach than a tazer, but not as strong

[Houndhill]

Please do not use a cattle prod…that can escalate a fight.

When scientists want to cause aggression/fightiing between mice, they shock them.

In “real life”, with dogs, cattle prod use can escalate aggression. Please do not use!

[englishcowgirl]

It does not matter if the dog was friendly or attacking. If you do not want it near you, the owner should keep it away. I would have no issue shocking or shooting any large dog that came running up to me or my dog. I am scared of dogs that I do not know due to several childhood incidents (all involving a member of those poor, innocent mislabeled breeds) and I refuse to be attacked again and will not make assumptions about a big dogs attitude no matter its breed. I also have no idea if that loose animal has its shots or is sick in anyway. I don’t need vet bills because someone else can’t take care of their animal. I always keep my dog on lease and away from people unless they specifically ask to pet her. She does not get to meet strange dogs unless I know the owner personally and the animal is healthy.

[danceronice]

One more time: is it LEGAL to walk dogs, ANY dogs, in this location without a leash?

[suze]

And of course one can help crying! Or I should hope so, anyway.

I can’t.

[Casey09]

Is there an animal control officer that can help? I would give them a call.
I don’t know that I would stop walking there entirely. If you have a friend that can help (or a couple), why not try to talk to this man? If he would just put a leash on his dog and not let his dog approach, I would think that would eliminate the problem. I know that he has already been rude to you, but I would think that if you approached him and told him that your dogs are elderly, that you are afraid that they will get hurt, and that you aren’t comfortable letting the dogs meet it might help.
I don’t have a problem with anyone legally carrying a gun in the woods, but what I said was that I personally wouldn’t be too quick to try to shoot his dog because it would be very difficult to do and with other people around, etc., I think it would be risky. You could walk with a baseball bat - I have a neighbor that always walks with a baseball bat. At the very least, it would communicate to him that his dog could get really hurt.
If you are supposed to use leashes there, then from this day forward use one. It won’t protect your dogs from an off leash dog, but at least you would be following all applicable laws.
I do feel very badly for you. I have been very frustrated by off leash dogs running up to me when I am trying to walk my dogs on leash or train them in my own yard. All of these areas have leash laws. Some of these dogs have been friendly, others I have been a lot less comfortable with but luckily there has never been any blood. It’s very irritating. A few months ago a young dog ran up to me when I was walking my dog and he had his hackles up and was growling and mouthing at my dog’s neck and legs. The owner didn’t seem concerned at all, and I did yell that she needed to restrain her dog immediately. I felt a little badly about my tone, but with two big dogs interacting like that I was really scared of them having a huge fight. I also had an elderly dog and it always scared me when people would let young, boisterous dogs run up on him because I knew that at his age, with his arthritis he was fragile. He couldn’t withstand the boisterous play that he loved when he was younger, and I was afraid that he would be hurt. Several times I had to tell people that he was old and they needed to keep their dogs away because he was too fragile. None of this was at an off-leash park - it was in veterinary offices and even in my own yard.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

[QUOTE=suze;7143387]
I can’t.[/QUOTE]

Try taking deep breaths through your nose. Don’t know why, but it works. :yes:

[suze]

Not for me. My sister is the same way. Both in our 60’s, happy, sad, angry, frustrated, whatever. Any kind of emotions start the tears. We can do it silently, with tears pouring down our cheeks being the only giveaway. Our families are used to it. It doesn’t bother us anymore. But there’s no avoidance technique that works.

[vacation1]

To all the ladies who are emotion-shaming OP over crying, you might want to check your own big girl panties because it doesn’t matter how much you swagger, you’re not growing a pair by berating other women. Girl-on-girl misogyny is repellant.

Re: the people who took it a step further to suggest that weeping, hysterical girls shouldn’t carry guns - perhaps OP would have felt less emotional if she’d felt less helpless, ie, if she’d had some way of physically repelling the mastiff’s attack. In short, a weapon. Carrying dog spray didn’t turn me into a vigilante; I’ve never had to use it on a dog yet. It just evened up my odds to where I’m no longer at the complete mercy of any passing sociopath with a big dog. Predictably, that feeling of being somewhat in control makes me far less emotional and upset when I do encounter unfriendly large dogs running free. My dog trusts me and is okay getting behind me, the loose dog is more wary, and the owners are more responsive because, armed with that extra confidence, I’m addressing them quite directly to get their dog back.

[cnvh]

@vacation1;7143535

To all the ladies who are emotion-shaming OP over crying, you might want to check your own big girl panties because it doesn’t matter how much you swagger, you’re not growing a pair by berating other women. Girl-on-girl misogyny is repellant.

Please. As a fellow woman, I’m not about to cosign the notion that we can’t face challenges like adults without falling apart and becoming doormats. I’ve cried at inopportune times too-- still doesn’t make it OK. Girls cry, women handle their business.

[suze]

I never said we fall apart - we don’t. Anyone who knows either of us would call us pretty strong women. Crying doesn’t necessarily mean falling apart and being a doormat. We both can, and have “handled our business” with tears rolling down our faces. Would we stop it if we could? Yes. And anyone who thinks we’re vulnerable because we’re crying better be ready for the opposite . . . .

[catzndogz22]

Yikes! I take my dogs to the off leash dog park nearby all the time. While we have only had one incident with an aggressive dog over the past 10 years, I still carry a spray bottle with a mixture of 1:3 vinegar to water. If some dog gets surly (more than just the posturing stuff) I spray them all in the face. No, Victoria Stillwell (who I LOVE) would not approve, but it stops the confrontation long enough to get everybody separated and does no harm. It’s not nice, but it’s a hell of a lot better than having your dog’s throat torn out. In this case, I’d probably go with a more potent mixture and set the sprayer to stream rather than spray and aim for the Cane’s eyes. Yes, it’s mean, but still harmless… and easier to pick a target than full on pepper spray.

[cnvh]

Suze, I can totally agree that it’s possible to cry and deal at the same time; I get that it’s an unfortunate stress response for you. But there’s a difference between that, and crying INSTEAD of facing an issue head-on.

Case in point: OP was originally asking advice re: the legality of bringing a GUN to this PUBLIC PROPERTY to shoot an unleashed dog, which was perceived to have “attacked” her ALSO unleashed dog, rather than attempt to have a conversation with the dog’s owner. If you’re going to walk away crying rather than have that conversation, and contemplate shooting and killing as a more agreeable alternative, then yes-- I call shenanigans.