An issue I have come across is people believe the breeder won’t call them back or ignore emails because they “walk in off the street” if you will. They think you will not be able to get a dog from a good breeder because they have no referral, just found them on the AKC website.
The people who believe it then don’t bother and find the less ethical breeders.
Is there truth to this? I know about how to select a breeder and what to look for. I have never purchased a purebred dog as my one and only dog so far was an adoption.
I agree with this. The average person isn’t educated with regards to dogs - conformation, health, temperament, titles, ethical breeding, etc, etc. I pick apart a dog the way I would pick apart a horse, the average person sees colour, size and a wagging tail.
And since many people have dogs or grew up with dogs, when they get to a point in their lives that they are ready for a dog, they want it NOW. If that means walking in to a shelter or contacting a rescue that’s fine. But if it means browsing the internet for craigslist and Kijiji ads and getting sucked in by pictures of cute puppies? Not ok.
I know a couple breeders now who have facebook pages, not to buy and sell, but to educate and promote, and to keep everyone updated. Catch people’s attention with a picture or video, and then have a blurb about how this dog just received xyz title, or passed abc health cert, etc.
I personally don’t agree with “guardian” home either. The breeders that I know have a no breeding clause, unless you speak with them about selecting a quality puppy, going through with getting titles, health certs, etc. Then they will work with you to select matings that will hopefully produce even nicer pups. And yes, they often do a co-ownership type of deal until the dog is retired from breeding.
In my admittedly limited experience, if what you’re asking is whether reputable breeders won’t deal with “regular” people, happy to respond that nope, not a bit of truth.
I bought my first purebred last year, after about three weeks of research and contacting breeders out of the blue, and had nothing but wonderful responses. In fact, the breeders who didn’t have pups available referred me to others. I discovered later that the people I’d been corresponding with were extremely highly regarded. (The breeders of other breeds on my list were also uniformly great, but since I ended up with a Portie, I can only speak to the renown of those breeders.) Nothing like calling a Lucinda Green looking for your first up down horse!
Sure, I did my best not to waste anyone’s time, by researching the breed, and sent breeders a detailed description of the lifestyle on offer before asking if they thought it might be suitable for any pups they had available then or in the next six months or so. (Having just lost my little old lady, I sympathize with the desire for instant gratification, so 6 months was a struggle, but you try to balance these things.)
Honestly, the whole process was delightful from the start on all levels. The breeders I talked to loved talking about their dogs.
I don’t think that true, although it may depend on the breed. I sold 1 puppy from my Dec litter to someone from AKC marketplace. The puppy was very sensitive, and the home she went to was a perfect fit, a better fit than a couple of people I had wanting her, that I found me through word of mouth.
The breeder I bought my bitch from has been breeding since 1974 and has an add on marketplace. The breeders I know are more flexible than rescues in their screening process. I know a lab breeder that has several puppies into homes in high rises in Boston. They were denied by rescue because they don’t have a fenced yard, but my friend sold to them because they had plans on how to meet the dogs needs. That said, the lab breeder’s adult daughter was looking for a mini poodle for a pet and could not find a breeder to sell her one. As soon as they found out she grew up showing labs, they slammed the door in her face. She thinks they were afraid she was going to make doodles.
You forgot to include those who are looking for a “breed” because that’s what they think they want but don’t do any research to learn about the breed nor where to get a puppy.
I think one of the difficulties is just finding good breeders. A lot dont have websites and some are just bad websites! Most breed parent clubs have a breeder directory so that is a good place to start. Mine doesn’t, unfortunately. Which is too bad because people have no trouble finding bad breeders on the internet.
Wait … what are people agreeing or disagreeing with? There are contradictory statements.
Some people seem to think that most pet dog owners get their dogs from the network of reputable breeders? People think that these breeders are producing the 10’s of thousands and 100’s of thousands of pet dogs in various communities across the country? The breeders who are a small network, and that don’t produce many litters per year? It’s mathematically impossible.
I know most of the pet dogs in households around me did not come from high-end breeders who did all the tests and selections and so on. They just didn’t.
I am in a southern state.
Although spaying and neutering are far more common than they were a few decades ago and are probably standard in the majority of pet homes, there is still a significant section of the population that won’t do either. For many it is for cultural reasons and tradition. They see spayed/neutered animals as ‘less’ than unaltered animals, and they want their animal to be a sort of robust family icon. They also believe that their animal should pass along its great qualities in the neighborhood, although they do nothing about planned breeding and let the dogs decide. Statistics indicate that many of those puppies ultimately end up in shelters, are not adopted, and so many are destroyed in those shelters.
This is a state that does ship shelter dogs to other states to satisfy their demand for shelter dogs. It is saving hundreds of lives of dogs that go on to be excellent pets. I am continuously stunned at the lovely dogs that end up in shelters here (or abandoned). And that no one here adopts. And that end up going to some other state, leaving this mild climate for cold winters (but at least they are inside dogs), because of the demand in those states for shelter dogs that doesn’t exist here. But it’s wonderful that the dogs have another chance at a good home.
I don’t know all of the reasons that it works out this way. But back to my original point, there is no question that responsible breeders cannot begin to satisfy the demand for pets in this area. And that shelters don’t meet the demand either, for convoluted and irrational reasons that have to do with the preferences of dog owners rather than the supply of shelter dogs.
So where are the pets coming from? Its’ a process of elimination - backyard breeders and puppy mills are about the only sources left to provide such a large supply of pet dogs. That is in this large geographic area, at least.
We are saying that most pet owners don’t actually try to find a good breeder, even though there are good breeders out there with healthy puppies that they would place in pet homes. I also think there could be more good breeders that would breed more litters if they were convinced they could place them in good homes. Not tons more puppies, but possibly some more.
I’ve also said many times on COTH that I think there is a market for good “pets” - breeders that breed for the standard (physical and temperament), health test their breeding dogs, but don’t look to attain conformation titles, or high end performance titles. That is why breeding is actually expensive, which is why I don’t understand how these mixed breed designer dogs end up being sold for so much money. Who is paying that, and for god’s sake, why?
But to put a conformation title on a lab or golden - that’s $10-20K minimum in entries, travel, handlers, etc. The health testing - is less than $1K.
Although of my two BTs, the one from the breeder directory was overall a less pleasant ‘experience’ than the other who came from a breeder recommended via word of mouth. So, even breed directories aren’t always what they’re supposed to be.
Trying to not be too specific about the one breeder
The breed directory is just a list, though. It’s not an endorsement, and is usually a paid advertisement. You still should get references and ask around. But in theory, it is a resource of breeders that actually care about the breed and are affiliated with the parent club - who are usually the group that identifies and recommends appropriate health testing, advances research into breed health issues, breed to the standard, and may have to agree to an ethical breeder statement (depending on the breed).
Plus the breed club should be helping people understand the breed to know if it’s the right one for them - based on activity needs, temperament, health, lifespan, etc.
My breed club hasn’t figured this out yet. Wonder why our membership is shrinking. Sigh. There are lots of breeders advertising out there on the internet - would be nice to steer prospective puppy owners toward the ones that aren’t puppy mills…but apparently that’s too crazy.
Google leads people to multipliers too easily. Of course I want potential buyers to do their research. But breeders have to be visible. Without promotion of FCI the multipliers will win. And of course FCI has to work on their standards and support all the time - even single cases of bad experience endanger the reputation of other responsible breeders.
For Austria I’d say, many, many people have their dogs from dog shelter/rescue organisations. Second source I think are ‘accidental litters’. There are also differences between the breeds, not only when it comes to the question, which breeds end up in shelter but also which breeds are bought via FCI and which not.
and: having a dog for some people seems to be a human right. Enough time, money, passion? No. Then go to a multiplier who does not ask any question and does not care about the dogs future. This lack of reflection makes me sick. Not everybody has to have a dog (or other pets) - sometimes life situation does not allow it.
Interesting point I learned recently. Not all “northern dogs” or “sled dogs” are the Malamute/Husky type. In fact, quite a lot of mushers prefer other types of mixes. A good friend an colleague has a small mid-distance sled dog team, and none of her dogs (and she’s based in northern NH) are Malmutes or Huskys. Apparently, those dogs may be great in Alaska, but have specific challenges that make them difficult to keep. You can see the kinds of dogs my friend races here: http://shadypinessleddogs.com/meet-the-dogs
None of the breeders you consider to be charging high prices are likely see any significant profit from it. I’m a veterinarian, so I certainly don’t pay retail for the care my dogs receive. But, a decade ago when my first litter was in progress, I figured out that at retail rates, my co-owner and I had about 6 k invested in the litter before giving any value to the sweat equity associated with proposition. That figure did NOT include training fees and competing. But, I can spend an extra $300 per month keeping my house warmer for a litter of newborns. I don’t even add up the food costs. I have more connections than I used to and we often don’t really charge each other for stud fees. Non friends, I typically spend $1200 for stud fee and then even at my costs another $500 for timing the breeding and more for Fedex shipping.
Agility is my passion and hobby, breeding allows me top notch dogs to compete with. It doesn’t fund the hobby. I consider that my entertainment expense so to speak. I also get great joy in putting healthy puppies in to pet and performance homes.
What you say just explains further why the vast majority of dogs in this country, including those that are a breed (registered or not), are not coming from responsible breeders. Because RB’s can’t begin to supply the demand for dogs for all the reasons you give.
So where do the dogs come from? My point is that the system creates a high incentive for the puppy mills, which are doing the dogs no favors … but it would be terribly difficult to fix that system because of the level of demand. Educating buyers is not enough to solve the problem, because there won’t be enough really well-bred dogs for them to take into their homes anyway. They end up settling for a dog that is available when they can’t get (or can’t afford) the one they really want.
I think in our current culture and modern way of life, instant gratification is very much a thing. As others have said, people want the dog NOW. For me, I am willing to wait, but in this case I do have time constraints. I waited on a potential litter that was to be given into new homes in August, but the bitch was empty upon examination after breeding. This breeder is very reputable, has quality dogs, but I understand (from horse breeding) that these things happen and nature is at play too. I told him that I didnt’ think I would be able to wait for his next potential litter in the fall.
I specifically want a puppy in the summertime as my schedule is flexible and I can be at home which is very important to me when first getting a puppy. However, if that were to be not possible and I could not find a suitable breeder, I’d be ok with that as it’s not something to rush into or do on impulse. I like to slowly introduce the puppy to us being away from the home and them being alone and focus on solid training. I did contact a few other breeders to see what’s out there and all were willing to speak with me as “someone off the street” some did not have any puppies available, or were still expecting their litter in the coming month, or didn’t have the sex (female) that I wanted. Which is fine. One breeder happened to have a few unclaimed females as the demand for males seems to be much higher at the moment and I went to visit her and her breeding program is exceptional. My puppy comes home in a few weeks.
The norm here is that you go to an initial meeting with the breeder, this can be before or after puppies are born and get to know each other. That way the breeder can see if you are suitable for their dogs, and you can see if the breeder is suitable for you. This breeder that I choose is proven, has credentials, takes genetic/health testing, and the quality of the breed seriously. She also treats her animals very well. I will not give my money to someone that does otherwise.
I realize not all people think this way. I have to set up the house to make sure it is puppy proof, I have to research and buy all of the goods/supplies, and make sure that I am ready with time and patience. Some people just aren’t planners, aren’t interested in the time and energy commitment, and view animals has “simple” creatures that don’t require much care. This leads to poorly trained and sometimes neglected dogs. Or they just view a pet as a thing. I don’t know how to conquer this mindset.
Anatolian Shepherd Dogs love to be outside in all sorts of weather. They need to be brushed daily if living indoors and obedience trainability is not their strong suit. Otherwise perfect Large and protective but not aggressive. Active, agile but not hyper. Love to be with their humans but can be left on their own. Smart, instinctive but alas not always trainable. unless by trainable you mean housebreaking, car-riding, and “no”, then yes! They are. If you mean for them to sit, down, come, balance bologna on her nose type of training, then no.
