Fine, except assuming that a crossbred dog will not also inherit all that is bad, along with the good, carried by both breeds?
Nope, the genes are there and any cross will not be any more or less apt to have the same problems in their offspring, problems of two breeds now.
Scrambling more genes doesn’t magically make them only pass the desirable ones, just provide more to pick from.
Ask any vet that gets to treat all kinds of dogs about this.
It is true that some breeds have maladaptive traits. There are many that do not. I find this conversation weary because it almost always starts with “…but look at Bulldogs…” or “…GSDs look crippled!” There are 193 recognized breeds in AKC, which is not anywhere near the total number of breeds in the world.
Your example of the toy poodle is a silly one. I don’t think most people would consider toy poodles to be “extremely fragile”, but sure, if they jump off of things it could result in injury. That is why I don’t let my dogs jump off a grooming table. More likely than not, they won’t get hurt - it’s only 3’ tall. But all dogs can hurt themselves doing seemingly normal things, especially jumping off of something.
Regardless of your personal views about purebred dogs - crossbreeding is not necessarily any better. Most especially, because the majority of crossbreeders selling dogs for the pet market don’t conduct even the most basic health tests - and not just testing the parents, but testing for generations. My breeding dogs have 5+ generations of clear hips, with multiple offspring from each breeding being tested. There are other tests done, but hips was one of the biggest issues in our breed and was one of the first to be routinely screened for. We all know that two normal parents might produce dysplastic puppies. It is less likely with multiple generations of passing hip evaluations though.
Also, crossing a poodle with another breed may produce offspring that shed less than other breeds. Or not. There is absolutely no guarantee that the offspring will inherit the poodle coat instead of the golden or whatever other breed was chosen.
Obviously if only offspring with the desirable coat were selected, and then bred to each other, for generations…that would increase the chances of the coat shedding less. Or, you could just get a poodle if you’re actually seeking a breed that has been selectively chosen for a poodle coat over generations. 
I am right there with you. Searching for a new puppy since we lost 2 recently and have a couple very elderly dogs not long for this world. Been doing a lot of breed research as all my life I’ve had mostly shelter rescues but now I want something more specific. Am with you on some of the health issues. I wanted a Bernese Mountain Dog but was surprised how many health issues they have, so crossed them off the list.
But I answer your post, I had a friend who bred Brittany Spaniels and they were mellow enough to be house dogs and loved being outside too and were very obedient, but the owner was invested as a person should be in training anything.
I’ve dealt with a number of Afghans and while I like their slinky selves, they were pretty hyper and goofy until mature. Their coats take a lot of grooming too which I’m not a fan of. I can’t stand Australian Shepherds. Had one kill one of my dogs and my boss has 2 mini’s and they are the fight instigators at her place too, throwing fuel on dog disagreements (she has two other larger dogs at her place too). I’m not a fan of cattle-breeds anyway, too much attitude and drive for me, been there done that more than a few times, they are not my thing. Every one I’ve met is a little instigator and just cattle dog unpredictable personalities. Blue Heelers were biters. I loved a BC cross I had the best. GSD’s as another breed are just a no for me. Too many personal horrible incidents with them both human and horse.
We have a Schnauzer I rescued years ago and my parents had them for years too. Mine is mellow as were there dogs. Easy to train and easy to have in the home or outside and traveling. But again I am NOT into grooming so I’d not have another or anything that needs nearly daily combing. Mine I agreed to foster for someone until they came to get her and then they instead fell in love with some puppies and never came to pick her up and I felt bad returning her to the shelter so here she is 6 years later. Hubby clips her himself but neither one of us want another long coated dog to keep up with and chase hair around on those with thick under coats. Had a boss with Standard Poodles and like the Afghan’s if you can get through the wiggly large silly puppy and adolescent stages and don’t mind the grooming requirements both breeds were nice dogs. If not for the grooming I’d consider one of those breeds, though in my experience the Poodles were a little thicker in the head to train, but nice once they were mature.
I am also of the personal opinion that any blame for breeding purebreds that may “deviate” from what they originally looked like cannot be laid completely at the feed of the breeders.
Breeders (whether it be dogs or horses or ?) will breed what pins in the show ring. Some of the “blame” needs to also be laid at the feet of the judges as well.
Sure, there are extremes in the breed ring, but you have the ability to choose wisely. Nice to know that my pup’s parents competed successfully not only in the breed ring but in agility and water work (PWDs), and stayed very sound. Pops just retired last year at 14 and still looks fantastic. 
I have been away over the weekend. Thank you for all the information!
Houndhill, you don’t need to judge anything. I would just appreciate your experience with whatever breed you have.
If my SO wasn’t ok with what I want I wouldn’t be looking.
With more sub-zero days than above zero winter is a way of life for us,we simply put on another coat and go outside. I want a dog that can handle that.
All my dogs to date have been heavier coated and have not minded, indeed often have asked to stay out during the day.
I am currently doing research to learn about some different breeds. I am not familiar with foxhounds, that is why I am
doing research and not just going out and getting one.
Asking real people their actual experience with specific breeds is more useful than reading a generic breed description
on the internet.
The thing I know about the guardian breeds you mentioned, (because there are many sheep farmers here there are many types of guardian dogs and just about every imaginable x there could be) guardians are bred to be independent, loyal and protective. If kept fenced in they some can be great pets, but they are bred to cover distance, I often get a visit from a lovely Pyrenees which lives about 1.5 mile away. Some of the guardians are not welcoming to visitors, very aloof. I didn’t specifically mention this in my op but we do get quite a few people dropping in for work and many people walking, riding, cycling past our yard.
It is amazing how small ones home gets when you have a 120lb dog on the floor. lol
My daughter has a purebred great dane, which is an in and out dog. She handles the winters just fine. (Sleeps inside!) I have considered getting one myself but SO doens’t want such a big dog and frankly the gd is a bit too laid back for me. Same daughter also has a St. Bernard/Maremma cross. Lovely dog to decorate one’s porch and kill coyotes, not interested in learning to shake a paw. Will not enter the house.
I do enjoy training, there is an agility club here in my area, I am prepared to spend the time a pup/young dog needs, each breed and individual will have different requirements.
If all puppy owners took a few classes I think there would be much happier pups and people. lol
I am interested in a shorter haired dog to see if I can find one compatible with my lifestyle. I would like the pooch to spend more time in the house with me because I like to spend time with her.
I am not stuck on a purebred but with a pb you have an idea of what you might get, with a mix there is not telling what part of the mix will prevail.
Too many times I have seen mixes fail with their owner because the prevailing instinct wasn’t the one the owner hoped for.
Sounds like any dog is going to be lucky to have you! Hope you’re having as much fun in your search as I did and end up as happy with the result.
I have to mention the Lagotto Romagnolo again, maybe the character suits your expectations?
Gordons are good but I’d never recommend any dog for outside living. I grew up with Llewellyn setters and they slept in my parents’ bed every night. I’ve had 7 las rocosa Aussies plus one and more rescued off the road and kill shelter mixed breeds and all slept in my bed. Dogs and cats belong in the house at the table and in the bed.
Of course there are no absolutes in animal breeding, it’s all a matter of probability and tendencies. If you cross a poodle with a squashed-nose breed, there will be a tendency for the offspring to have longer noses that the pure squashed-nose parent. There is a tendency, quite strong in fact, for poodle crosses to shed less than non-poodle breeds.
It’s too bad that “high quality” breeders automatically despise all cross breeding of dogs. It doesn’t have to be a terrible thing—the parents could still be health tested and selected for good temperaments. If fact, progress in breeding healthy, friendly, stable dogs would be facilitated if breeders focused on health and temperament instead of strict adherence to breed standards and what is defined as “show quality” at eight or ten weeks of age. In the dog world, one has to show in conformation or performance events or preferably both to be regarded as a “high-quality” breeder. So many pups are culled (sold as pets with mandatory spay/neuter contracts) because they have minute physical “flaws” that are imperceptible to the vast majority of people. Many dogs are bred over and over again because they won big in the show ring, despite having temperaments that are anything but family-friendly. Although show breeders say they care about temperament and many probably do, breeding for temperament generally takes a back seat to physical perfection. To add to the problem, physical perfection in many breeds is not compatible with life in most homes (e.g., extremely hard to care for coats, ears prone to infection, pathologically weak backs, etc.) Perhaps this is why the OP is having trouble deciding on a pleasant, trainable, not-too-much-shedding farm dog!
Wouldn’t it be beneficial, especially to dogs themselves, if knowledgeable breeders were more open to the probable benefits of cross-breeding dogs and contributed their knowledge to produce what the public actually wants in a family pet? I suspect that they feel threatened by the popularity of crosses. They should realize that the popularity reflects what I said previously: many of the crosses are adorable, sweet, less extreme in maladaptive structure, have reduced shedding, and are no less healthy than typical purebreds.
There are so many dogs/breeds available. Too many people seem to be too stupid or too lazy to choose wisely which dog/breed is the right one. Breeding animals will always be a process and undergo changes, but educating people to me is the most important thing.
There is the dog waiting somewhere for everyone who is willing to do some research first and take care of the dog for an entire lifetime.
@colorfan, sry for being more and more off-topic.
What breed(s) did you own/show? You are making some amazingly broad statements about purebred breeding. Lots of very well-bred puppies in my breed are sold as family pets, hunting companions, or non-hunting performance dogs. Even those with conformation backgrounds. The best 1 or 2 might be sold into show homes, but not all of them.
The reason purebred people despise cross breeding - is because 95% of the cross breeding is not purposeful unless you consider making money a purpose; 3-4% is to cheat, and maybe 1% is actual purpose-bred breeding programs.
I think you’d probably find that of the 95% that are selling to the pet market - they are NOT health testing. That is a primary reason to despise them. And crossing random mixes together (like my co-worker’s Pomsky – a Pomeranian x Husky. :no: ) And then selling them for $1000+++ to people with no guarantees, not willing to take them back, and often, not even screening the buyers to see if they are remotely capable of handling the dog.
Do you actually know any good cross-breeders? Honestly. I would be curious to know.
Is a cross-breeder for you a person who tries to create a new breed/preserve an old breed before accepted by a kennel club? Is a cross-breeder someone who rejects the kennel club because -for example- questionable politics or standard? Is a cross-breeder the puppy-mill type? A person who is not willing to neuter the dogs and produces puppies because of not taking care?
I don’t personally know any good cross-breeders. A friend purchased her much-loved golden-doodle from this breeder who health tests and charges accordingly http://www.lakeviewdoodles.com. I get that this kennel appears to be a money-making endeavor for the family, but I would not regard this as inherently evil.
The thing is, everyone is selling mainly to the pet market. The vast majority of people have no interest in conformation showing or hunting with dogs or any of the other niche dog sports, regardless of how well-bred their dog may be. So almost all dogs bred in this country are destined for pet homes. Those you regard as high quality breeders are indeed purpose breeding, but to what purpose? In their zeal to breed dogs with excessive coats and extreme body types or dogs that are driven to hunt, dig, herd, or otherwise perform they are creating animals that don’t make appropriate pets for most people. In any case, such “superior” breeders are small in number and could not possibly supply the demand for pet dogs in this country.
I actually love the world of purebred dogs, despite recognizing some serious problems with the business. I have grown to appreciate cross-bred dogs too because I have become acquainted with so many nice ones. I don’t think that they or the people breeding them deserve the knee-jerk hostility that always comes from pure breed fanatics.
First off, I do believe there is a right dog and breed for every person and it isn’t the same breed or individual
Having said that, you obviously never lived with either of my two Border Terriers :lol: Incredibly laid back. Their ideal day is napping in my lap 
I would agree that terriers can be high energy but not all terriers or all terrier breeds (FWIW, I was vacillating between Border and Cairn and asked a friend of mine what she’d recommend given my personal requirements (seeing as how she had both). Took her no time at all to recommend the Border and I’ve been more than happy with both of mine (other than the Border Terrier bark in my ear when I’m putting on his harness for a walk ).
I would hardly call this a good breeder. Sorry. They have 4 current litters and 5 coming just this summer. This is a puppy mill.
They breed:
English Petite/Mini Goldendoodles
English Miniature/Sm. Standard Goldendoodles
English Petite Goldendoodles
English Miniature Goldendoodles
English Miniature Multigen Goldendoodles
English Petite Multigen Goldendoodles
English Multigen Double Doodles
English Petite/Mini Multigen Goldendoodles
They use “guardian homes” so they can place their breeding bitches somewhere else and just use them when they want.
Not sure I believe their health testing claims. They are presenting dogs as “Vonwillabrands Clear” when it is actually “Von Willebrand.” And as far as I know, not known to affect poodles or goldens.
And “Lakeview Max” hybrid male born in 2016 is listed in the OFA database with only a patella exam. Not any of the other things listed by his name (OFA Hip Certified “Excellent”, Penn Hip Above Average, Elbows Normal/Petellas, Vonwillabrands Clear, Heart CERF Clear/Normal, Eye CERF Clear/Normal
Eye PRA Clear.) I suppose it is possible it’s not the same dog…
Most breeders don’t do Penn Hip and OFA either, and Penn Hip is grade by distraction index (a number) - not “above average” or any other qualitative score. No entry for Rudder, no entry for Tye Braxton - which should come up since it’s unusual. Heart exams are not called CERF (CERF stood for Canine Eye Registration Foundation, but OFA does the eye certifications now).
I’d like to see the certificates as proof. I don’t believe them.
OP I am sorry you felt “judged” by me, I was simply trying to clarify your criteria for a dog, since you stated your SO wanted a 100% outdoor dog, without noting you were disregarding his preference. That is why I suggested a rough-coated livestock guardian breed, some of those can live 100% outdoors in frigid climates, as can the Northern breeds of course. A short haired single coated breed is not going to tolerate the cold as well.
Now we learn your SO is opposed to a breed over 120 pounds, which you do seem to view as a reasonable requirement. You also now state you want to do Agility.
It is difficult to keep up with your requirements and which ones your SO may be consulted with and which his wishes are disregarded. I do not think you would care to train a retired pack foxhound in Agility. It can be done, of course, but it would take a great deal of work and effort which I am not convinced you would be committed to, since you stated in your OP you would not be willing to undertake training a Beagle puppy - generally a much easier task.
We now have the added requirement of being tolerant or friendly to people who walk, cycle, or ride past her property, so does not want a guardian breed, as well as being responsive enough to be taught to shake hands, and must be livelier as well as smaller than a Dane. And should be short- coated, yet able to tolerate regular exposure to sub-zero temperatures.
This is why most reputable breeders want to meet with both members of a couple, and the entire family, before committing to allow them to have a puppy of their breeding. You must, as a breeder, make sure they are on the same page.
Please keep us posted on what breed or mix you decide is right for you and, presumably, your SO.
I didn’t say that they were a good breeder, just that my friend acquired a nice dog from them and they state that they do health tests. I do not know if the information on the website is truthful or not. What is true is that relatively few dogs born in the US, whether pure or cross bred, come from parents who were extensively health tested. This is just not the norm. Paradoxically, high quality show breeders tend to take pride in producing few litters, often breeding only one litter a year or less. Anyone who breeds a lot of litters is automatically declared to be a puppy mill and shamed online (as you immediately did). Given this mindset, there’s no way high quality breeders will supply all of the puppies that people are seeking to buy. Just a fact.
There are many ways to acquire the right dog. Purchasing from a high quality breeder is a fine way, and people should be willing to spend more for pups from health-tested parents. Loyal, beloved companions are also acquired from backyard/family breeders of purebreds or crossbreds, rescues, the local pound, or Craigslist. All of the latter are not unhealthy trash dogs as some people choose to believe. I wish the OP the best of luck in acquiring the right dog for her circumstances.
I breed fully health tested Pembroke Welsh Corgis focusing on companion homes and agility homes. There is no way in ** I’d waste a breeding quality bitch on producing cross breds. My friends/co-breeders and I have spent the past decade busting our *** to eliminate DM in our family tree and increase the number of lovely, correct males who are DM clear and available for others to use. I don’t know how many samples I sent to NC State to help with development of a genetic screening for PDA. Those of us devoted to our chosen breed are constantly working to improve the health of our dogs. Crosses are NOT a threat to us. All our our puppies are spoken for long before they arrive.
Very, very few crossbreds have the prebreeding health testing done to promote health.
I did read the whole thread, but I have to say that I was reading more for the OP and less for your pet peeves Yes though, now that you mention it I’m remembering more of your earlier posts. I’m not suggesting an F1 over further generations, just sharing my own experience. And 15 years ago there were not plentiful examples of F2 or further. We drove 5+ hours just to get an F1 puppy with, yes, a good breeder and good parents. There were health tests if that meets your definition of good standing. Not sure why you would split hairs over a person who makes their livelihood breeding animals - therefore, a “breeder.”
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