I’ve never had a Doberman, either, that experienced mange.
1 Like
LOL no bias there. It’s the purebred breeders’ fault?
How many show breeders have been asked for a purebred puppy by someone that hoped to breed healthy crosses? How many people even know anyone that breeds healthy crosses? Or even, how many people have even heard of anyone that breeds healthy crosses? Please stop blaming the responsible purebred breeders for not wanting to give up the product of generations of effort to someone that just wants to make a fast buck by mating two random dogs, without health testing, selecting for good attributes, or using any kind of breeding standard or goal.
As for the “demand for mixed breed puppies” - are you sure there is a demand? Or is there just a huge supply? Are there people out there that really think “hey, I’d love a Chihuahua. But even better, I’d like a Chihuahua mixed with a Dachshund. Because it would be …. ______ and ______ unlike either of the two original breeds.” What are the blanks? Friendlier? Smarter? Healthier? Or, is it just too tempting to pass up “Chiweenie” puppies on the internet?
And the Malti-poo? How is that a more desirable pet than either Maltese or Miniature Poodle, both of which were essentially developed to be…pets. And both are low shedding breeds, so you can’t really go to the poodle coat.
And the Pomsky? Were there actual people that wanted a Pomeranian crossed with a Husky? And why?
Going back to this - Nor will they try to educate other breeders about health tests. That’s just total BS. What could possibly make you say this?
I have to wonder, again, what your experience is with purebred breeders? It sounds like you have a personal issue.
11 Likes
I did allow for accidental breedings in my reply, did I not? I did say that many breeders, the ‘purpose’ for the litter is to make $$ for the breeder, did I not?
Many, many years ago I worked with someone whose children went out and got 2 Shelties so they could breed them and sell the puppies. This so totally made me almost nauseous. I get there are many people in the world who don’t care if their dogs breed or not, nor do they care what they breed to. I get there are many people in the world who wants to breed cross-bred purebreds because designer dog are an ‘in’ thing and the pups will sell. Doesn’t make it right.
Radio show I listen to had one of their on-air female personalities just get a new Goldendoodle :eek: Now it turns out their new puppy will be living with someone else for two weeks to learn to be a proper, well behaved puppy :eek: :eek: I am of the personal opinion that the owner and family need to learn to train the puppy so the relationship is there and the family and puppy all learn the same rules of consistency.
Doesn’t make any of it right in my personal opinion.
1 Like
Do you really think they end up in breed rescue because they aren’t great examples of a specific breed? I don’t think so. It’s more like the cute little puppy has grown into an annoying adult and is digging up the yard or peeing in the house and the owners are too lazy and uninvolved to attempt to train him/her. Or they bought a dog to breed and sell puppies, don’t care about the dogs they produce and breed them until they have health problems. It doesn’t help that the dogs don’t have lovely bloodlines and bodies, but it’s people who have unrealistic expectations on dog ownership who send the dogs to the pound, dump them in the desert or forest or throw them in a sealed box and toss it by the side of the road or in a dumpster.
People who rescue aren’t supporting the backyard breeders, they are saving the unfortunate (mostly backyard bred) dogs from certain death in the pound. But that’s what people with compassion do. It’s more work, and of course we don’t have perfectly lovely dogs that could win at dog shows, but oh, well… everyone has priorities.
Buying from a good breeder is not taboo. You can go to any breed specific website chat group and find people who will recommend breeders with sparkling reputations for a certain breed. When the OP decides what breed they want, I suggest that option. I frequent my chosen breed’s website and if I wanted a puppy from a breeder I’d know where to go. However, I prefer adopting the unwanted ones that have a hard time finding a home (at least when I have a chance). To each their own.
Incidentally, there are well bred dogs at rescues. It’s not just backyard breeders. Not all reputable breeders know when their dogs are discarded. They are the minority, but they are there just the same. Also, stuff happens. One dog we adopted who had dysplasia was brought back to the breeder. The breeder took him to the vet to be PTS. The vet thought he was such a nice dog he tried to keep him. The dog chased his old cat so he gave him to us. He was an amazing dog, best temperament of any Rottie we ever had (we have had 10). His dysplasia was in one hip and we suspected it might have been an injury from the owner hitting him that screwed up his hip, because the other was perfect. We had him for 11 years, replaced his hip, he was just spectacular. He didn’t deserve to die young and truthfully in my book, he deserved to be cloned! Little kid from next door came and kicked him in the side and he just walked away; smart, calm temperament, obedient and loving. I wish all our Rotties were like him. Really pretty boy too. Handsome face and other than the hip was lovely. I’m just saying, there are nicer classic dogs out there that need homes too. People suck. Dogs are amazing and forgiving.
6 Likes
Cropping (ears, tail) in Austria is forbidden by law since 2005. The dogs live with ears and tail like all the others do.
3 Likes
Both. Like ‘fast food’ there are ‘fast doggies’, bought without questioning.
Many people are not able to distinguish between breeder and multiplier. Many people think they don’t need any documents because they won’t go on dog shows, so ‘why to pay for’. Many people think breeders lost their way since agony breeding is discussed. They are blinded by promises because they don’t know better. ‘Fast doggies’ end up in shelter when they turned 10 months and become more challenging. Or because people abandon their dogs as soon as life changes a little bit.
It is all about education and consideration, but teaching people in a ‘throw away society’ is hard.
3 Likes
Agreed. Good breeders do more than just produce temperamentally correct puppies, they also make sure their buyers really understand what they are getting.
And even in great litters some can be challenging - I own one, and my other dog is his sire. His temperament is not incorrect but he has more energy than some. In the wrong home he might have been more than some people could handle.
That said, when bred poorly, many breeds can be more than just challenging - they are incorrect and/or unpredictable for their breed. Which defeats the purpose purebred breeding with selection.
But yes - people suck. Bad breeders are some of the worst people.
3 Likes
One consideration for me is average life span. I’m surprised no one has mentioned it.
i like big dogs but some have short life spans,little dogs appear to live much longer.
2 Likes
I think there is a huge demand for those stupid Goldendoodle things. Half the people I know who have bought puppies have paid several grand for the honor of having a mutt. I don’t get it at all.
my amazing dog is a chi cross. Goodness knows with what. He’s a delightful dog but not attractive and I can’t imagine he was on purpose! I think he was some sort of animal hoarding surrender from the South. Our local rescue gets dogs from kill shelters there.
4 Likes
This thread has been really interesting and I applaud he OP for doing all this research. Friends of mine recently decided to get a Corgi. It’s not happening right away as they want to get it together and the wife is on deployment. Her husband sent me a link to basically a mail order corgi breeder. I was so happy I talked him out of it.
“Yes they are having a sale (Really?) and the dogs are $500, however that website has so many red flags.”
Thank god he listened and is searching out a reputable breeder as well as learning more about the breed. His wife wants a corgi and he’s always had Goldens.
I boiled it down to, if you want an inexpensive dog adopt. If you want a purebred pay up.
With regards to the doodle mixes, when these started becoming popular, I was told it was because of the cutesy names of the mixes. If there was ever a reason to NOT breed. Then again, I’ve never met one I actually liked so I am a little bias.
3 Likes
“Purpose-bred” usually refers to the dog’s ability to work for a living-- herding/hunting/dog sports/etc. Not that they were bred for the purpose of making money.
5 Likes
I think the point is that there is no more purpose to a Peke-a-Poo than a Pekingese.
So the phrase “purpose bred” to refer to dopey cross breeds is a euphamism for “the purpose was to make money.”
There are a few breeders in the country that breed truly purpose bred crosses for certain sports , e.g. agility. I think I have heard of some herding mix (maybe border collie and something else) but dont recall what. Maybe a type of terrier. I am not against the idea entirely if there is a standard/ideal and appropriate health testing.
But most designer dogs are to purpose bred for anything.
2 Likes
As someone who’s always had mutts before my current purebred, and knowing several people who breed dogs of different breeds (though each breeder only breeds one breed), this is the polar opposite of what I’ve observed and lived. My dog is show quality - she was the last one available in the litter and another breeder, who competes in the breed, agility and water work arenas, had the choice between my girl and her sister. The breeder not only was careful to explain the breed’s traits and quirks, including grooming requirements, but has taught me to clip her and given me an open invite to come down for more help. If at any time the dog needs another home, the dog goes to her. So not only did the breeder make sure that my expectations were appropriate, but she’s given me the resources to make them happen, and a safe spot for the dog if she ever needs it. It’s lovely.
By contrast, we have lots of doodles in this area, and it’s clear from the coats on many that either no one explained what maintenance the coats require or the owners thought it was optional. Mats to the skin are not comfortable, and that’s what these coats do without regular grooming or clipping. Ugh.
6 Likes
I worked for several years for a kennel that bred and competed them at field trials. They were awesome dogs who seemed to easily switch from kennel live to house life depending on whether they were competing & training or in off season. I loved that even though I was only there a few days out of a month (was fill in person) they absolutely listened to me
I have a German shepherd I got off Craigslist for 100 dollars, from someone who should not have had the dog, when he was a year old. I consider him a rescue. He was highly dog reactive, did not know how to walk on a leash, had a nervy as hell temperament, and came from a backyard breeder. His father died of five from osteosarcoma, so we constantly have to worry about this. He’s aggressive toward smaller animals and not good with children or some strangers.
I love my dog. He is seven now and fairly well adjusted.
I spent 2000 dollars on private training and STILL do not have a dog that will ever be competitive in the sporting venues I enjoy. He will probably not title, due to his age and the need to travel to do it in my area.
You don’t find dogs from reputable breeders in shelters, because a reputable breeder will take back a dog that needs rehoming 100% of the time, and usually a reputable breeder will put their information as a backup on the dog’s microchip.
I will be going to a reputable breeder next time.
3 Likes
I would consider the dog’s ability to work, aka make $ for the breeder, as a purpose 
For me, there is a difference between ‘purpose’ bred and ‘performance’ bred where one is specifically calling out the dog’s intended use rather than just make $. I would consider my Border Terriers as performance-bred although my breeder also has bred pups that do conformation along with the more traditional performance sports.
I dunno, maybe mine are purpose bred to nap on my lap
1 Like
OMG, my SIL, who is a huge advocate of ending puppy mills, and worked tirelessly to get one shut down in her town, bought a bernadoodle. I just looked at the website and they are being sold for $4000-$5500. The puppy producer uses Guardian homes, so the “dogs live with a family”, or rather, so she can breed more dogs than she can care for.
She breeds dogs that generally care for their young well, so she just keeps things clean, and makes sure everyone is doing ok. My breed that breeders have to be with mom and the pups any time they are together, 24/7 for the first couple weeks at least, sell for $2000-$3500. I think breeders of purebred, quality dogs need to raise our prices. She told my SIL she does health testing on both breeds, but I have yet to see any evidence of that.
I can’t believe people are so gullible and uneducated.
1 Like
This thread is such an education! Thanks to everyone who is contributing your knowledge and information.
I’m sure the OP is going to get a good dog in the end … but I also think this is one thread that will do good that will go much farther. Many more people read a COTH thread than post in it, as you can see by the stats by each thread title, on the forum page.
4 Likes
So given this gathering of experience, what is the general opinion on the correctness of the breed identifications in the dog breed “DNA testing” that are available commercially? (Such as Wisdom Panel, Embark, etc.) I’m not concerned with the marketing puffery that comes with it. Just what the breed identifications they come up with actually mean.
For example, if I were testing a large mixed-breed dog that is looks somewhat like a GSD, and the test claims there is some terrier, chihuahua and beagle in there, does it mean that somewhere far back in the dog’s ancestry a genuine terrier, chihuahua, and beagle took part? Or only that all dogs have common DNA elements and that’s just how they run the computer identification program?
I’ve wondered, because of course such a DNA test is not something that owners of a purebred, registered dog would be likely to do. But the results of testing genuine purebreds might tell a good deal about what the test is really showing, if the purebreds also showed the common dog DNA that the program tagged as this and that other breed.
Just wondering!
1 Like
Just bumping my question about training two pups simultaneously. Anyone experienced doing that?
