Dogs, ownership, microchips …

[Scribbler]

@Casey09

This question is inspired by Facebook.
A city shelter has a Facebook site to showcase animals found at large, in hopes of reuniting them with their owners. That’s obviously a positive thing.
There is now a dog on the site that was “returned to owner,” but a person had posted below the photo that the dog was 9-10 years old and had been lost 4 years ago. The shelter apparently returned the dog to people who had “current vet records rather than the people the chip was registered to.
The shelter replied that ownership is a private dispute and the dog was returned to people who had proven ownership for several years.
So … I guess I would’ve thought the dog would go to the registered microchip owner. I don’t know how the other family came in possession of the dog, but I always thought that the point of microchipping was kind of to establish ownership.
One of the first things I do when I have a new dog is make sure that I have the proper ownership documents and register the chip to myself, just in case.
Any thoughts? I have no knowledge of the situation and I am simply trying to understand how this should work better. I don’t have a vested interest in this particular scenario.

The shelter is saying that the ownership dispute is private, which is correct. This also means there is more to the story than you are getting on Facebook. I wouldn’t try to derive any huge precedents from this case or some universal rule about chips.

The point about updating registry is very important. I think people may assume the chip may do all the work, but all it can do is link to a database. Its also possible to acquire an animal and not know it’s chipped, or not have access to the scanner for that chip.

I have also been around horse world enough to know that people go on about horses being “stolen” in all kinds of disputes, seizures, etc so honestly you really don’t know how the first owners lost possession.

[Larksmom]

I have my current, and actually ALL my cats are microchipped. However, with my darling Dickens, he was about 1 and 1/2 years old when I got him. I thought I had had it updated, but I recently had him checked at the vet, and to my suprise, There was old indecipherial information on the chip. The vet gave me the contact number fo the chipper, and I sent them an email to which they never replied. Well, I have naturally, misplaced that info. My vet is 30 miles away, and I don’t want to drive out there just to check the chip. However, lately, Dickens has been going walkabout. He was gone for 4 days, and I posted on FB. He showed up this morning for about 1/2 hour and disappeared again. I know someone else is feeding him and maybe thinks that beautiul well fed cat is a stray. I tried to put a collar on him, but he managd to get it in his mouth, and I had trouble getting it off him without damaging his mouth. If someone DID check his chip, apparently, it would be gobbldygook.

[DiamondJubilee]

@Simkie

But most people don’t know they have to change the microchip, or how to go about that. You do, but that’s not the norm.

This is so true! When I bought my pup from her breeder at 8 weeks, I did ask about her chip and if I had to do anything. She told me I didn’t and it would change to me as owner (I wasn’t sure how but I assumed when she sent in her papers with the CKC, it somehow would change over then).

I totally forgot about it and when I went to the vet a few months ago, I finally remembered and asked the vet to scan her chip to see what name/address came up. She gave me a card of the chip company and told me to contact them. So I went online, paid a small fee, and updated to all of my info. It still had her breeder info on there. Now I’m sure the breeder would contact me if she somehow got my girl back. We chat often so she knows who I am and who my pup is. But still, not all breeders are like this or can keep track of all of their pups/owners.

I’m glad I asked my vet as she was 1.5 years old at the time. But I really assumed it was already done!

I wish all vets/clinics scanned for chips as soon as the animal arrives to see if the chip/names match. But then again, I suppose that really may not solve anything if the animal was stolen as they could easily just change the chip info afterwards telling the vet that the incorrect info is from the previous owner/breeder…

[Old_Mac_Donald]

The only “gimmick” is the royal bit.
Phantom silver is a pattern (phantom) and colour (silver).

Americans call big Standards “Royals” but it is as BS as “teacup”. There is only Standards, Mini, Toy (and Mouyen in Europe).

So no. A Phantom silver SP is like saying your horse is a bay tobiano Paint.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

@S1969

the “phantom silver royal” is not an acceptable color,

It’s not AKC -show acceptable, but it does exist

https://poodleclubsa.com.au/color.php

This is from a local ANKC (our AKC) chapter.

[Simkie]

@Old_Mac_Donald

https://poodleclubsa.com.au/color.php

This is from a local ANKC (our AKC) chapter.

Whoa, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fully clipped poodle before!

[Eclectic_Horseman]

Did the original owner report the dog lost or stolen? If not, it could be said that the original owner abandoned the dog. That’s what I would argue in court.

Thanks @Casey09 for raising this issue. I think that more people should be aware of it. When I got my puppy from the breeder, he was already microchipped but I don’t know whether the chip is registered to her or to me. Going to look into it.

[endlessclimb]

Just for example - my dog’s chip.

I’ve tried several several several times to get the phone number updated on it. They are completely unresponsive, and their website doesn’t work. It’s infuriating.

[SummerRose]

If the shelter released the dog as an adoption, then they legally owned the dog at the time that they placed it for adoption and had the right to adopt it out to whoever they chose.

The fact that the dog was microchipped would not make a difference unless the state/local law required that the shelter attempt to track down the registered owner and they failed to do so. If the shelter followed all applicable laws, the shelter was the owner of the dog at the time that they placed it. They could choose to adopt it to the original owner, to the more recent owner, or to someone else altogether.

But if they returned it before they had obtained ownership, that’s a hard question to decide.

I can see why they would choose the most recent long-term owner because it seems like that would be the least stressful option for the dog. I understand why they’d want to release it to the most familiar home with the family it has been with for several years - the dog is likely very attached to its current owners. I’m sure he would get attached to its original owner, too, but there would be a degree of stress when he loses his current owners and has to adjust to new surroundings and new people. And given the circumstances, it makes sense that the shelter would say that the question of ownership at this point would be a civil matter between the two owners.

In any case, the release choice isn’t likely to change now, even if the original owner tried to challenge it in court. I’m very sorry that the original owner is hurting, but I hope that there’s some relief in knowing that the dog is alive and well.

[Simkie]

@endlessclimb

I’ve tried several several several times to get the phone number updated on it. They are completely unresponsive, and their website doesn’t work. It’s infuriating.

There are several free chip registries. Register the chip there with the new phone #. If the chip is scanned, the info will be accessible.

[S1969]

@Old_Mac_Donald

It’s not AKC -show acceptable, but it does exist

https://poodleclubsa.com.au/color.php

This is from a local ANKC (our AKC) chapter.

I understand.

Sometimes unacceptable colors are because there is a potential for congenital health issues. Sometimes they are unacceptable because they were seen in breedings that were not purebred, and making them unacceptable is a way to rule out crossbreeding.

My breed is acceptable in 2 colors and 3 patterns in the US, where black is a DQ. But in Australia (and maybe Europe?) black is allowable. It is impossible to get black out of the two permissible colors allowed in the AKC, so any dog with a black nose (or other coloring) could have been the result of crossbreeding (e.g. with a Pointer or Setter.)

Not sure where the black came from in Australia, but it’s a concern if anyone breeds to dogs registered there. Not as much for them, but for breedings coming back to the US in the event they are for show purposes. But, of course, just like color genetics in horses, you just have to know which colors are dominant/recessive, etc.

[DiamondJubilee]

@Simkie

Whoa, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fully clipped poodle before!

Me neither! I saw this as well and actually like it ha ha! I’m sure the poodle owners out there may not though. I’m sure the coat must protect them, and I know my opinion is very unpopular, but I find poodles (show clip or natural clip) to be quite ugly. I love their attitudes and think they are amazing dogs (my sister had a mini and he was so super sweet and what a great dog!!) but I really hate the look of them. But this one totally clipped looks quite super cute to me!

[DiamondJubilee]

@Eclectic_Horseman

When I got my puppy from the breeder, he was already microchipped but I don’t know whether the chip is registered to her or to me. Going to look into it.

My pup was breeder chipped as well and when I had the vet check it the other month (she is 1.5 years old now), it was still registered to the breeder. I had to go on the chips website and paid a small fee (around $10) and changed all the info to update it to my info. Now the vet did scan her to see what chip website I had to go on so I could update it.

[Casey09]

The dog did not go through the 5-day stray hold - it was picked up and returned quickly.
I don’t know. I just hate to see a dog returned to someone who may have found it or even stole it years ago and did not either turn it in to a shelter or make a huge effort to return the dog to the owners. Whenever someone makes a found post on Facebook locally, several individuals with scanners offer to come to their home and scan the cat or dog. Even more people chime in to suggest places to take the animal to be scanned. I chip feral cats just to make sure that if they’re picked up or trapped, they can come back home.

[S1969]

I’ve seen this done for the purposes of a judging exhibition (not in poodles, but in other heavily coated breeds) - the reason is so that people can see the dog underneath, not just feel it. Sometimes they clip only one side. So you can compare the coated versus clipped version.

Obviously after the competition, the owner must fully clip them so they don’t look ridiculous. But it will grow in quickly.

I just did a quick search and can’t find any - but I think I’ve seen it done on something like a Pekinese or maybe something else with very long hair. It was really amazing.

[Scribbler]

@Casey09

The dog did not go through the 5-day stray hold - it was picked up and returned quickly.
I don’t know. I just hate to see a dog returned to someone who may have found it or even stole it years ago and did not either turn it in to a shelter or make a huge effort to return the dog to the owners. Whenever someone makes a found post on Facebook locally, several individuals with scanners offer to come to their home and scan the cat or dog. Even more people chime in to suggest places to take the animal to be scanned. I chip feral cats just to make sure that if they’re picked up or trapped, they can come back home.

But it sounds like current owners had him for the past 5 years.

[BigPaintHorse]

@S1969

the “phantom silver royal” is not an acceptable color,

Just as an Aside… while not a AKC recognized color Silver Phantom is a UKC recognized color for Multi-Colored Poodles (UKC diferentiates between Standard Poodles (same as AKC) and Multi Colored Poodles (standard sized multi colored poodles). There are quite a few reputable breeders of Multi Colored poodles who register with UKC.

[S1969]

@BigPaintHorse

Just as an Aside… while not a AKC recognized color Silver Phantom is a UKC recognized color for Multi-Colored Poodles (UKC diferentiates between Standard Poodles (same as AKC) and Multi Colored Poodles (standard sized multi colored poodles). There are quite a few reputable breeders of Multi Colored poodles who register with UKC.

I am sure there are good breeders in every breed who may not register with AKC.

I don’t really get UKC though. There is no UKC parent club for my breed. No one knows who even wrote the standard, or how judges are supposed to know what the standard is. It might be different for other breeds, but for my breed it’s not a reputable registry. The only people I know who show in UKC in my breed are people who also show in AKC.

[GoodTimes]

I got my dog from someone who decided that they could no longer give her a good home. She was just over a year old at the time, she’s now nine years old. The previous owner was responsible enough to give me her vet records, microchip info, and all of her “stuff”. But no bill of sale.
I changed the info on the chip online, but I’ve never had it scanned to confirm. And honestly, if the previous owner hadn’t of told me she was chipped I probably would never have checked.

[Casey09]

Right. I mean honestly ….

He doesn’t look that well cared for, and maybe that’s part of what bothers me.