Runwayz, did you read post 128? I’ve been to the Farm with someone who was looking at the foals, simple as that! I’m not Jill, a relative, business partner, just a poor sap that took the 2 1/2 hour drive to view the foals with a friend that loves sport horses.
[QUOTE=eagle74;6510218]
If someone would like to call, feel free! I’m not Jill as I have stated, just someone that has been to the facility that can vouch for the condition of the horses. I won’t bite…[/QUOTE]
Hi “Mike”
Being as you have been to the farm 6 times, and are willing to represent Jill (wow, what a friend you must be! And to come here to defend her as well… must be a very good friend).
I don’t think many are too concerned about the condition of the horses. They appear to be in good weight etc.
Can you, as a friend willing to take calls to discuss Jill tell us the following:
Why hasn’t she paid fees to various registries causing all sort of issues for foal owners?
Why has she taken breeding fees and never sent the product?
Why did she run that “contest” for free breedings then never give anything to any of the winners?
Why did someone have to create huge thread on COTH to get paid for a filly Jill had, but did not pay for?
Why is there dog poop in her reproduction lab?
Why are owner’s still missing registration papers, yet some on strewn on the floor with crap on them?
Why doesn’t Jill return calls? People are always posting on FB trying to get a hold of her, but she just deletes the post.
Why doesn’t she pay the feed store she owes?
Why doesn’t she pay the vet she owes?
Why doesn’t she pay her attorneys that she owes?
And if you were there you would know that the mares and foals have no shelter, simple as that! 
And if you just came up once to accompany a friend, why so defensive?
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6509523]
Posting posters real names is a guaranteed way to get this thread shut down which will once again open the door for Jill Burnell to continue to scam people.[/QUOTE]
Posting factual information that a poster has themselves made available is fine.
[QUOTE=eagle74;6510218]
I’m not Jill as I have stated, just someone that has been to the facility that can vouch for the condition of the horses. I won’t bite…[/QUOTE]
We know, we know. You’ve been there SIX times :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=eagle74;6510257]
Runwayz, did you read post 128? I’ve been to the Farm with someone who was looking at the foals, simple as that! I’m not Jill, a relative, business partner, just a poor sap that took the 2 1/2 hour drive to view the foals with a friend that loves sport horses.[/QUOTE]
This comment make it sound like it was 1 (one) time not 6 (six)
That is what it’s going to take. People will need to step forward to make sure it doesn’t happen to anyone else.
With Jill’s husband recently getting a large inheritance, couldn’t everybody go after that money?
Nootka, Exactly…
Daventry, thank you for taking the time to call and chat! I enjoyed speaking with you…
My God. Once again, Eagle is venomously trying to take focus away from the original intent. But I will address the ludicrous claims now, for the last time.
No one said the parents were confined to a bed. Yes, they came and went, even when Jill’s mother had a cracked bone in her leg from falling over the rubble in the house. They couldn’t stand to be in that house. They were on a waiting list at an adult low income apartment program. We tried to get them to move in with us many times, but they were waiting for the apartment. Then out of the blue, Jill tells them the place forclosed. Later she throws a weeks notice to move out at them. This has been a blessing in disguise, because now they are in a clean home being treated with respect and love. They even laugh now. Enough said on that, Eagle/Jill/Mike/whoever.
[QUOTE=runwayz;6510271]
And if you were there you would know that the mares and foals have no shelter, simple as that! And if you just came up once to accompany a friend, why so defensive?[/QUOTE]
Depending on how you define a corrogated metal roof over part of the dirt pen, then maybe the horses have “shelter”. Or maybe it only gives them some shade depending on time of day…Or not. Certainly no significant protection from wind and rain.
(the roof is visible in the pictures posted by SIL)
Not “Just a Poor Sap”
[QUOTE=eagle74;6510257]
Runwayz, did you read post 128? I’ve been to the Farm with someone who was looking at the foals, simple as that! I’m not Jill, a relative, business partner, just a poor sap that took the 2 1/2 hour drive to view the foals with a friend that loves sport horses.[/QUOTE]
Well Mike, I think as far as everybody here is concerned; you are now an official Jill Burnell supporter whose full name in now known by everyone here. That’s not cyber-bullying; that’s you choosing to come here and voluntarily post REPEATEDLY your support for Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farms. In retrospect, and perhaps after doing a little reading and research, and realizing the internet isn’t anonymous; it may be dawning on you that linking your name to Jill Burnell’s might not have been a very well thought out course of action.
Save the “poor sap” crap. It’s too late and won’t work here. :no:
And don’t worry, I am sure the FBI &/or Prosecuting attorney’s office will be contacting you, and you can further ellaborate on what you chose to put on the record here. It would be great if you could just delete your posts and pretend this never happened; but screenshots live on in posterity. The internet is forever.
REVISING THIS to say:
“OH, Mike” FACEPALM
I totally trust Daventry on this, but for the love of beejeebus, buddy; take up scuba diving with Great White Sharks or something.
Just to reassure Mike, because Daventry is in Canada where they may take animal welfare more seriously. I am not an expert on CA animal welfare law; but, in my experience – and in especially in my current state of Mississippi; horses are more likely to die and starve in place before any action is taken. The huge debate is whether you just go up and beg the owner to sell you the horse - in which case horse is saved, but abuser is not punished and can keep accumulating animals or you let the horse die and attempt to get law enforcement and a judge to care.
I think the general consensus here that I have read is that the horses would not qualify for animal welfare intervention. The lack of shelter thing is very upsetting to the SiL and to me and to many of us; however, I know in my current state, there is zero requirement to shelter horses as they are considered livestock.
Now, somebody mentioned that Sonoma County considers horses pets, so there may be a legal requirement for shelter. It would be nice if somebody could at least assist Jill in putting up some kind of shade – I should own stock in Coolaroo shade sails, and the large square shade sails are very durable.
Mike, I do think that we need to take the SiL concerns about the horses welfare seriously - even though they look fine now – for this reason:
When things go bad in these situations, they go very badly very quickly – especially when horses are on sandy dry lot w/o grass and completely dependent upon a caretaker for feed.
I have 2 horses and a half dozen sheep on 10 acres of lush pasture with a large, clean pond and large shade trees plus they have free access to the lower level of the barn. My husband and I could fall over dead, and they’d probably be fine for years - except for hoof and vet care, etc. - as we have greenery year round on the MS Gulf Coast, and these are easy keeping older non show horses.
But, and again, I am not an expert; my understanding is that in keeping up breeding mares, foals, and youngsters – balanced nutrition is really important. You can’t just feed horses randomly at random times - and keeping horses on dry lots is certainly done, but those horses need forage and water and minerals to keep their systems going.
My concern about the horses’ welfare is that aside from the lack of shelter, they have NO GRASS; a mentally ill owner / caretaker w/ questionable financial resources who has judgments against her from a vet and a feedstore. What happens if/when she cannot get feed / hay / farrier / vet care? If she is not the primary caregiver; how long will the caregiver(s) continue unpaid.
Thus far, Jill Burnell is not a person who is acknowledging her dire straits and willing to cooperate to help herself or her horses.
The other huge concern that the SiL has is that the mares / foals / youngsters are owned by other people who are unaware that that the house of cards is collapsing.
Finally, Mike, most of us who are involved in anything farming related are not fans of the Humane Society HSUS and are usually very strong advocates of our rights to do whatever we want to do on our property and with our livestock - unless there is blatent abuse and neglect.
In conclusion, Mike - Jill Burner of Gray Fox Farms is an indisputably (by human standards) bad person who has done lots of bad things to lots of decent people. Hers are not victimless crimes. May you never have to clean up the messes created by unhinged relatives and may you never get completely taken advantage of and financially screwed by someone you trusted. And may you never again jump into the middle of a group of primarily horse crazed females fueled by righteous indignation – unless you are into being abused mercilessly.
Carry On.
In this case the biggest issue is fraud and the horses are the valuable assets, so I don’t think anyone wants or advocates having the horses seized by humane groups; and as I said above, I would be very suprised if animal welfare could take action.
There is a 12x12 roof in the smaller front pen, she never had one in the middle or far end pen where the mares and foals were. Unless she just put one up which I doubt. the smaller pen with the roof housed 8 yearlings together.
OK guys, since it is too hot here to venture outside and get anything done right now, I bit the bullet and called Eagle74. :winkgrin: Actually, my phone got disconnected and he called me back on his dime.
We talked for about 25 minutes and he’s actually a very nice guy. After doing a bit of research on the internet first, I did grill him and made him answer a few questions, that only he could know or answers that he shouldn’t have to think about before answering, to verify he wasn’t Jill’s husband. He is Mike! The rest of his information I will not give out as I think everyone has a right to privacy. But be rest assured, this isn’t an alter of Jill’s or Jill’s husband and everyone’s just going to have to take my word for it.
Really, his only beef is that people are stating the SPCA/Animal Control should be called and that the horses are being abused, in poor shape, etc. Even I have already stated on several different threads that looking after the horses is the one thing Jill has done. They’re not bone thin, they’re not being abused, etc. As Mike and I agreed, it’s a small place with likely too many horses on the property…but it is not enough to warrant an animal rescue society being able to do anything about it. I think Mike’s posts just didn’t necessarily come out right all the time and a few people ran with what was said too. :lol:
Mike has been out there a few times to look at horses with a friend who was looking at the horses. He doesn’t know Jill and isn’t supporting her, wasn’t in her house, saw the parents leave the property of their own will, but just wanted everyone to know that when he was out there, they looked happy and healthy. They had blankets on when it was cold and fly sheets on when it was hot.
So like I said, he is just a guy that was out there taking pictures and his big issue was with people claiming animal abuse, and at the end of the day, that is not the current problem out there 
I’m not saying that may not be a problem in the future…as I think hoarding just gets worse and worse if left untreated. But for now, the biggest issue is with the way Jill is doing business.
So, as someone who was sure Mike was Jill, I’m asking everyone to let sleeping dogs lie and get back on topic and just make sure this thread stays open so others can be forewarned about doing business with her in the future. Stick to the facts so people don’t get tired of reading meaningless posts on here and shutting their screen off And to those doing business in the future; get it in writing, have a contract in place, do your homework! And please, the people that have been wronged, come forward. Contact the Petaluma Police Department, the FBI, whatever it takes to correct the wrongs that have been done.
OK, jumping off of my soap box now.
eagle74, yes please give me your number ! i will call and put this to rest once and for all !!
Hi “Appsolute”, Mike here, my purpose for posting here was this statement:
“There are NO barns, and NO shelters of any kind for the horses. I have seen first hand how she “takes care” of these poor horses. In the winter, they are left to stand in the rain and frost and heavy winds with no protection whatsoever. Animal control has been to her place many times because of complaints by neighbors.”
Again, if you have an average level of comprehension, read post 128 where I stated my experience of the condition of the animals and the parents then referenced them with pictures. Katboxxxx’s statement prompted me to do so. Nothing about owing people money
So yes as you can see, it did start with the condition of the animals! As far as the rest of the question, give me a call, Daventry took the time to do so!
[QUOTE=eagle74;6507566]
I think everyone needs to step back and re-think what you are posting! You are replying to one “accusation” from a sister-in-law and crucifying Jill off the post. I’ve been to GFF 6 times in the last 5 months ( see attached photos ) and have seen zero evidence of any abuse or mistreatment of any Horse. The Stallions are gorgeous and well cared for, there hasn’t been any evidence of overcrowding and the horses have always approached Jill without any hesitation. You’re messing with someone’s lively hood by jumping on the bandwagon and I would be very careful about posting defamatory statements without any basis for doing so. I can’t vouch for the inside of the house as I never went in but to be honest, it isn’t anyone’s business but Jill’s! Three times when I was there, the parents drove away on their own, if they were being abused I would bet they could have jumped in their car and left. In regards to Animal Control coming, does anyone have any reports or code infractions to validate the accusations? Post them! If anyone would like, PM me with your number and I will call you with my observations! I’ve been there, the pictures show the conditions of the horses and the pastures so if you haven’t been there yourself, maybe it’s best you keep your comments to yourself!
http://s1168.photobucket.com/albums/r488/65satellite/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ28[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=eagle74;6508073]Ever consider the source of the original post? The sister-in-law obviously has issues with how her in-laws have helped Jill out financially and makes no bones about it. So if conditions were so bad for the in-laws, why does the SIL wait until now to “rescue” the in-laws? They live in the same town, certainly they’ve been there before and seen the “horrible” conditions. Funny how the timing is so close to Jill purchasing 30+ acres and moving her facility with possible financial help from her parents thus pissing off the SIL who is upset about not getting help herself? Unfortunately in Calif it’s all to common for people to walk away from their homes due to the decline in property values, so Jill certainly isn’t the first. Google Tom Sullivan the Fox News financial guru who makes $5 mil a year as he did the same thing in my neighborhood of Granite Bay.
It’s unfortunate that most of you in your pretentious little circle want to make accusations with only a “claim” that these photo’s are from Jill’s house. I’ve been to the facility, I posted pictures, I will visit again in the next week or so to the new farm and take more pictures. My advice to everyone involved in the discussion is to STFU if you haven’t personnally been to her house!
Yes she has a warrant from 6 years ago, something she should definitely clear! Again, PM me if you would like me to call you, I am not Jill![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=eagle74;6509902]Surprise! I’m not Jill! Just someone who has been to GFF 6 times and posted pictures of my visits! How many of you have actually been to the farm and can vouch for the conditions? Zero, as evidenced by your false sense of bravado that you’ve obtained by sitting behind a computer and attacking someone off accusations by Jill’s supposed sister-in-law! The sister-in-law who hasn’t answered pm’s by 4 different people in regards to obtaining her contact info like she promised.
Forced bankruptcy? Give me a break! If you have a claim, make it at the appropriate venue not on a forum. Does anyone on this forum even have a legitimate claim, or is it " I personally know 5 people that have been shafted by Jill but they won’t come forward" yada yada? It’s obvious you people don’t like her, fine, don’t do business with her! For those that feel they have a claim, take her to court not some Internet rumor mill. The steps to the Court House are easy to find.
I find it interesting that everyone joining the bash wagon on elder abuse, are going off a post by the SIL with pictures and not by reports by adult protective services/police. I still find it interesting that the SIL waited until Jill moved to 35 acres to make her claims. The SIL is pissed because the property doesn’t have a place for the parents to live hence them moving in with her. There was no “rescue”! Again, why did she wait having lived in the same town and certainly must have known!
If anyone is adult enough and wants to discuss this, have the balls to pick up the phone and call me, my name is Mike and my number is 916-847-0869[/QUOTE]
Katboxxx…916-847-0869
Good job Daventry! I do not think anyone said the horses were ever abused, animal control has been called many times, but do nothing because the horses are not starving. That has been made clear. BUT I have seen and counted over 40 horses there at one time, on a small piece of property. They have had blankets on, and those blankets get left on even when hot out. Just like the fly sheets get left on in the rain. So it is basically a case of too many animals and not enough man power to take proper care of them. Many more are also in pastures all over town. They are scattered around. I have also seen many foals standing and shaking in rain storms next to thier mothers because there IS NO SHELTER for them. If I was an owner of one of these youngsters, I would be appalled at how they live. And to make things better, I have seen bales of hay left out in the rain and they are fed that wet hay, fed on the ground in the mud, standing up to their fetlocks in piss and poop mud. These are the horse in the smaller pens, including Romantic Star. Nice huh?
Thanks Daventry and I would second your advice to everyone to take your claims to the right authorities, not the Internet! Uh oh, looks like the FBI is here in their Crown Victorias! Damn you Idaziens!!!
