Double Twisted Wire Bits

[loriandlobo]

[QUOTE=eclipse;3270212]
Awesome post! And, may I add, that even some of those $500+ horses don’t go in plain snaffles! But, I guess Loblow (or whatever she’s called) hasn’t SEEN some of those Grand Prix riders (and I’m talking some of the BEST riders in the world) many of those horses have some serious hardware in their mouth and good gravy, actually LOVE their job! Much better to have an instantly responsive horse when your galloping to a 5ft+ fence than one grabbing onto a snaffle bit & running like a freaking freight train…although, this “greatest trainer in the history of the world” wouldn’t know THAT, right???:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

And it’s Lobo, not Loblow. I’m not surprised you have a problem with the “anything in a snaffle bit” concept - you can’t put out enough effort to even get a name correct. Lobo is a dog, and he seems to have more character and even tact than you do. What a shame!

[magnolia73]

Well, Show Hunters are not a test of horsemanship. Show Jumpers is not a test of horsemanship. Dressage is not a test of horsemanship. Eventing is not a test of horsemanship. Yes, horsemanship plays a role, along with athletics, skill, business, showmanship. And in some cases, a stronger bit can salvage the career of a not so suitable hunter or jumper, protect a weaker rider etc. I suppose that we could spend years schooling horses in soft snaffles - and some people do. But some people want to show and do more. As long as they are not making a miserable horse who cares? And overbitted horses feeling discomfort do not generally yield winning rounds…

If you are into riding horses with minimal equipment, there are places for that- Parelli clinics and demos, places like horse expos etc. Perhaps people who seek to acheive that type of communication should start their own competitions.

[Well_Worn_Bridle]

I am not trying to justify or oppose a thing, but to the people saying big name trainers or perfect riders ride in a plain snaffle? Check out the new Dover with Anne K. on the cover. She is using a double twisted wire full cheek converted to a gag. I hardly think she’s a beginner or novice rider.

[Czar]

@loriandlobo;3270358

Never mind. It’s shame people have such closed minds when it comes to horses. No telling what they are capable of if given the chance from someone. There is no substitute for TRYING to strive for better horsemanship. Put 1 rider on 1 horse with the barest of equipment, much less shortcuts, and see who can get what done.

Close-minded…are you serious?! Saying that all horses should go well in <insert piece of equipment> is about as close-minded as it comes!

We’re not shooting for Parelli day camp here - we’re talking show horses. Sure, I could probably get on any horse with a plain old snaffle and ride it around but to school it PROPERLY and EFFECTIVELY…you use what the horse tells you.

I pity the horse that falls into the hands of a rider/trainer so narrow minded that they think that ONE method will do for all horses. Talk about pigeon-holing.

[RugBug]

@loriandlobo;3270358

Never mind. It’s shame people have such closed minds when it comes to horses. No telling what they are capable of if given the chance from someone. There is no substitute for TRYING to strive for better horsemanship. Put 1 rider on 1 horse with the barest of equipment, much less shortcuts, and see who can get what done. THAT would be the truest test of horsemanship - NOT by using artificial aids to make up for the rider’s shortcomings. Some on this forum make me realize why I respect the TRUE cowboy way of horsemanship and comaradarie - they would NEVER criticize something or someone just because they don’t understand it. It’s called humility and several of you could stand to be schooled in that.:):):)

Many “true cowboys” would also slap a shanked bit in a horse’s mouth and some huge old spurs on along with a latigo for some over/under if necessary.

Anything we put on a horse is an “Artificial Aid”, including a plain snaffle, a halter, a bridle, a saddle, etc.

[Kristen]

[QUOTE=Czar;3270418]
Close-minded…are you serious?! Saying that all horses should go well in <insert piece of equipment> is about as close-minded as it comes!

We’re not shooting for Parelli day camp here - we’re talking show horses. Sure, I could probably get on any horse with a plain old snaffle and ride it around but to school it PROPERLY and EFFECTIVELY…you use what the horse tells you.

I pity the horse that falls into the hands of a rider/trainer so narrow minded that they think that ONE method will do for all horses. Talk about pigeon-holing.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this. Using a double twisted wire or any bit for that matter is not bad horsemanship, as long as the bit is used correctly and is a good “match” for the horse. Different bits serve different purposes for different horses - that’s why there are so damn many of them! Believing that ALL horses MUST go in an eggbutt snaffle (or whatever), no matter what the horse’s personality, type, preference, training issues, etc are is bad horsemanship imho. Horses are individuals, and what works best for one horse may not on the next. And bits, like many other pieces of equipment we use on our horses, are never harsh in and of themselves. It always depends on the person using it. To say, “we had this one horse come in who’d been ridden in a double twisted wire previously and it took SO LONG to undo the damage, and now he is great in his loose ring…therefore, clearly all double twisted wires are bad” is silly. To the OP, I agree that unless you see this girl using this bit in a clearly abusive manner, it is unreasonable for you to make an issue with it. Perhaps you could ask her and the trainer WHY they feel this bit is appropriate for this horse and what they are hoping to accomplish with it? It sounds like this trainer does have a clue what she’s doing, and if so, both she and the student should be able to tell you why they’re using it. Maybe it’ll put your mind to rest.

[foursocks]

Hunh. My horse hates a single joint plain snaffle. He acted like it was sawing through his lips and spent each ride I tried it on him attempting to fling it out of his mouth. I guess he didn’t get the memo from the greatest horseman EVAH.

He also hated the double twisted I (briefly) tried on him, after months and months of other bit experiments. He likes his Mylar combo bit, he likes a jointed segunda, he likes waterfords a lot, he LOVED the Mikmar I had on him for a bit (he chewed the crap out of it so I had to stop using it), he is fairly happy in a double jointed pelham, and he really likes his Sprenger long shank hackamore. Why would I put something on him in which he demonstrably feels uncomfortable?

My horse really doesn’t like single jointed bits, of any kind- for whatever reason they do not fit his mouth. One of my old junior hunters went exceptionally well- very soft and happy- in a double twisted, as does another junior hunter now at my barn. Do you, lobo, have any notion of how horse’s mouths and tongues and so on are shaped differently? Why on earth would one single bit design be suitable for every horse, in each discipline?

[jeta]

[QUOTE=Czar;3270418]
Close-minded…are you serious?! Saying that all horses should go well in <insert piece of equipment> is about as close-minded as it comes!

We’re not shooting for Parelli day camp here - we’re talking show horses. Sure, I could probably get on any horse with a plain old snaffle and ride it around but to school it PROPERLY and EFFECTIVELY…you use what the horse tells you.

I pity the horse that falls into the hands of a rider/trainer so narrow minded that they think that ONE method will do for all horses. Talk about pigeon-holing.[/QUOTE]

Czar, you took the words right out of my mouth…Its kind of scary to know that there are people out there incapable of “thinking outside the box” and will only consider there is “one true way” and “one true piece of equipment” that will suit all horses…

[Gray_Horse_H_J]

[QUOTE=loriandlobo;3270358]
Never mind. It’s shame people have such closed minds when it comes to horses. No telling what they are capable of if given the chance from someone. There is no substitute for TRYING to strive for better horsemanship. Put 1 rider on 1 horse with the barest of equipment, much less shortcuts, and see who can get what done. THAT would be the truest test of horsemanship - NOT by using artificial aids to make up for the rider’s shortcomings. Some on this forum make me realize why I respect the TRUE cowboy way of horsemanship and comaradarie - they would NEVER criticize something or someone just because they don’t understand it. It’s called humility and several of you could stand to be schooled in that.:):):):)[/QUOTE]

So I take it that you are able to get on ANY horse, any horse in the world, in a plain snaffle and do absolutely anything you want it to do, right?

Some people on this thread are baffling me. I’m not going to reiterate what a lot of others are saying, but I agree that a double twisted wire can be necessary, and when used kindly and correctly it’s perfectly fine. It’s a strong bit but I certainly don’t think it’s abusive. It’s a lot more abusive, IMO, to put a plain snaffle on a horse that needs more and then tear his face off. I’ve seen that, and it’s not a pretty sight.

[Giddyyy-upp16]

I have been to and watched at least 10 George Morris clinics and at every single one he tells AT LEAST one person to go strait home and purchase one of these bits. I show hunters on a 17.0 hand very big bodied thoroughbred who we actually had to send to a cowboy for ground training because he would literally just turn away from you and drag you while you were just trying to walk him. He is very big and strong and he’s aware of this so he constantly takes advantage. My friend rides with Thom Hardy and he has her riding her thoroughbred in a double twisted wire and I tried her bit on my horse and it worked wonders. I agree that this bit is NOT for an inexperienced rider but in the right hands it can make your horse unbelievably different. Try it once or twice on your horse if you’re considering this bit and the worst that’s going to happen is they will not like it, then all you need to do is switch to a different bit. It’s as simple as trial and error. Let’s trust the master of all riding, George Morris, and don’t scoff at everyone using this. Every horse and rider is different!

[ParadoxFarm]

@Giddyyy-upp16

I have been to and watched at least 10 George Morris clinics and at every single one he tells AT LEAST one person to go strait home and purchase one of these bits. I show hunters on a 17.0 hand very big bodied thoroughbred who we actually had to send to a cowboy for ground training because he would literally just turn away from you and drag you while you were just trying to walk him. He is very big and strong and he’s aware of this so he constantly takes advantage. My friend rides with Thom Hardy and he has her riding her thoroughbred in a double twisted wire and I tried her bit on my horse and it worked wonders. I agree that this bit is NOT for an inexperienced rider but in the right hands it can make your horse unbelievably different. Try it once or twice on your horse if you’re considering this bit and the worst that’s going to happen is they will not like it, then all you need to do is switch to a different bit. It’s as simple as trial and error. Let’s trust the master of all riding, George Morris, and don’t scoff at everyone using this. Every horse and rider is different!

You realize this is a ten-year-old thread, right? Maybe you should start a current thread to get more current replies.