Would it change anyone’s opinion to know that another rider who did veer into the pedestrian walkway and originally received DR penalties for that later had those penalties changed to a warning? Whereas DP did not actually cross into any marked pedestrian areas, the other person did, but their penalties were lessened.
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Here is what Doug wrote on his Facebook page about the incident:
I want to commend Jersey Fresh International Three Day Event their organizers and volunteers for incredible effort put forth for this years 3 and 4*’s. The ground and presentation were the best I’ve seen here and I look forward to returning!
During the 3* XC I took a path outside of the normal route between 2 fences. The path was mowed, prepared and used on courses throughout the day. I did not get near any person, jump any rope to endanger anyone, my horse or myself. I was given a dangerous riding penalty as a result. I spoke with the TD prior to the Friday briefing about another potential shortcut over a fence. I was told it was at my own risk and if I endangered any of the following I was open to penalty. In an abundance of caution I checked the area prior to my ride the morning of and twice while on course in the area. I would have not proceeded if people, vehicles etc existed. None of which did.
Following cross-country I requested a meeting with the ground jury and officials, during this meeting joined by other coaches they could not show us anywhere in the rulebook where this line was prohibited. We were told it was not the intention of the course designer, we were warned that it was our risk in the briefing and I would receive the penalty as a result.
I believe this is a very slippery slope, and goes directly against the heart of the sport. Anyone willing to take a more difficult route that might save time or effort should be rewarded as long as jeopardy is not placed on anyone or anything.
Outside of the three star there was a rider in the four-star that took a shortcut through a pedestrian crossing. She was initially awarded the same penalty but was then given a verbal warning and DR are removed.
I can’t help but leave the competition feeling slighted and dismayed.
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She might have been the one jumping the jump judge.
There isn’t actually an official rule saying you can’t do that. Doug said (and it’s well known that he’s a rules guru): “Following cross-country I requested a meeting with the ground jury and officials, during this meeting joined by other coaches they could not show us anywhere in the rulebook where this line was prohibited.”
While I agree that the rules should apply equally to all, regardless of their “name”, this one rubs me the wrong way, especially that the ground jury took away the penalty for what sounds like actual dangerous riding on the rider in the 3*. That’s not applying the rules equitably.
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The question of going down the wrong gallop path (NOT the part about jumping a jump judge) is a good additional example - there the person made a geniune mistake, one easy to make on a course with lots of different tracks looping back and forth.
I once came MUCH closer than comfortable to being run over by Boyd Martin at a Prelim course I was jump judging. I was in a chair in the field where I could see my jump, and we had just started the division. It was hard to find a place to sit where I was off the track but could see my jump, which was tucked into a little stand of trees where there was no room for a judge. Boyd came down the hill, and instead of jumping his next jump and then up to mine, he missed that prior jump and ended up on a totally different line to my jump…one that came VERY close to me. I am not sure who was more startled. As soon as he passed I found a different place to sit that meant I had to get up and walk forward for each horse after it passed me in order to see the takeoff properly, but it wasn’t in the way if anyone made THAT particular mistake again.
My point is this is a dynamic system even at the best of times. I would want to see the rules applied if you went outside of any roped track, on a pedestrian way, or, obviously, JUMPED a pedestrian. This one seems more borderline…
It’s hard to really know without knowing what happened to the other rider. If she was having a reasonable, in control round and then something crazy happened (for example IF her bit broke, or a piece of the jump blew off, or a deer suddenly ran straight at her horse) I think giving her a warning might be reasonable.
I have mixed feelings about DP’s situation, since it is not illegal but would certainly be difficult/problematic if multiple riders did it and there wasn’t a straightforward way for the control person/GJ to keep track of where horses were on course consistently. I guess mostly I am surprised that he did it after having asked and being told that there might well be consequences. It also doesn’t really appear to have even helped his results much if at all, so it just seems like he was looking for a fight.
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holy crap!
yeah, jumping a human is more than a bit dangerous
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There were different TDs for the 3* and the 4* so that could explain part of the reason why the penalty was treated differently in the 2 divisions. Unfortunately this is not one of those clear cut scenarios. Footing and pedestrian traffic are controlled along the expected course for the riders, it makes it difficult when riders choose alternate routes. At a certain point, course cutting is certainly a safety risk, I’m not sure there’s a clear line for when this is the case.
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Not every course is roped from stem to stern.
Unrelated but which horse was he riding for the penalty?
Bolding my own. You saw someone jump a horse over a person at JF this weekend?! Intentionally or unintentionally (not that that affects how dangerous that is)?
I am not surprised that he did it having been told that there would be consequences under certain circumstances. I am surprised that there were consequences given that, at least according to Doug, the circumstances under which he was told there would be consequences were clearly not present in the video. Per Doug:
Now, I’m not a big fan of taking someone’s word as the whole story (SafeSport springs to mind…), but that seems like a reasonable/expected thing for the TD to say at the briefing, and the objective video evidence demonstrates that he did none of those things. We know the photographer didn’t feel endangered, since she was kind enough to comment here. So why is this specific instance a problem?
Thank you for pointing this out. I suspect you are correct.
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First, I am not an FEI expert, but I think there is an FEI rule that JUMPING the roping is an automatic “Dangerous Riding”, whether intentional or not, and whether there were any people nearby.
Second, the usual way of preventing people taking shortcuts is with the use of “compulsory passages”. If the course designer thinks there is a possibility of someone taking a short cut, they should include compulsory passages.
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You are correct. However, there were no ropes being jumped here, just going around them.
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From what I read, that was not the case. The other rider did a different approach than everyone else that happened to include going into the pedestrian traffic area. BUT, all of the posts that I read about that incident have been removed from Facebook now, so I cannot go back and verify.
…but he did go near a person, which is seen in his video. I’m glad she didn’t feel endangered but I don’t think questioning the spectator involved should be a part of deciding to apply the warning/disciplinary action.
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Interesting problem. Each FEI rider is given a Course Plan which shows the position of the start, finish, the numbered obstacles and alternatives and any compulsory passages. There is also an official distance and optimum time as the course is measured to ensure the requirements for that level of competion (time and distance) are met by the course design/er. That suggests an expectation that all the riders follow the same course, whether strung or not. Jumping over the stringing, for any reason, is deemed to be dangerous riding under FEI rules. But no stringing here. Error of course is Elimination. Could hooning off on your own line be considered an ‘error of course’ as everyone else stayed on the planned and measured route? In which case, Payne was lucky to only get penalised for dangerous riding. I think clarification of the rules is needed after this. Maybe FEI courses should be strung for their entire length to ensure fairness for all. Oh dear, more cost.
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I would say he was a fair bit further away from the person in the video than you would be from your average jump judge. As a lower level smurf I think I’ve run closer to other competitors who were out doing their course walk and just stepped aside for me. But I suppose if the ground jury meant “nowhere near anyone” you might be right about the cause of their concerns.
Agree with you there. I said it only to point out that the penalty clearly wasn’t the result of a complaint. Definitely not suggesting conducting interviews!
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I remember being at WEG in Kentucky and several horses came so close to the ropes/spectators that I could have reached out and touched them had I been foolish enough to do so. The argument could be that there was a rope creating a “boundary” (albeit not a substantial one) for both horse and rider, but had one of those horses slipped and fallen, they would have taken out several spectators.
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It’s also important to remember that for Dangerous Riding, the GJ can decide to either a) just give a warning b) give 25 penalties or c) elimination. A Yellow Warning Card can also be given in extreme circumstances (pressing exhausted horse). Doug was not given a Yellow Card, nor was he eliminated.
No. IME, just the bigger ones. I don’t think that means that it’s cool to ignore them.
