Downhill

I know AQHA has added “being overly canted” at the lope as a fault. Arabians mention straightness as important at the lope. I think it takes a while for training/habits to catch up with the rules though - it wasn’t really that long ago that passing/circling wasn’t allowed/ok in the show ring. It still might be that the canted horses are the best horses in the ring and the judge still uses them despite this fault, particularly in ammy classes where manners/obedience are of more importance.

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Yes. I think the pendulum is swinging away from the old (awful) style. I think the popularity of ranch riding classes and of western dressage is testament to that. Things are changing, but there are still too many old judges that are ignoring the updated judging guidelines. It’s just going to take some time. Like USEF, there are lots of politics in AQHA.

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Being downhill is NOT ideal in a QH. Common is not at all the same thing as desired.

And downhill conformation has absolutely nothing to do with laminitis. :roll_eyes: What an absurd comment.

I’m not a fan of the style in which these horses are trained or ridden, but let’s at least try to be accurate in our criticism.

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I’ve been puzzled by that comment as well. I’ve never heard of a history of HUS horses suffering from laminitis. Many of them seem to live long and healthy lives.

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I have to laugh (not at you, but at the situation). I showed the AQHA circuit in the 80s. It was around the time the peanut rollers really started taking off. There were still a few people that showed the more collected west coast style (higher head and romal reins), but those people were not winning. The peanut rollers got worse and worse and the horses got slower and slower. People began to get outraged and said it was time to change. The horse must carry his head level and have a true two beat jog and a three beat canter. And yet, in the next 40 years what happened? Nothing, it got even worse. There is beauty in a real natural western pleasure horse. I’ve ridden some really nice ones. There is no pumping action at the canter, but a smooth flowing slow lope. The jog is smooth slow and collected. I watch some now and they look bone jarring even if slow.

To me the problem isn’t the ideal horse. The true natural horse. The problem is people try to make an animal that is not suitable into a pleasure horse and then they rely on all the tricks, like cantering sideways down the rail. The true naturals are few and far between.

As far as passing goes, back then I had a beautiful Appendix mare I showed hunter under saddle. She had a long stride at the walk and a phenomenal trot. I wasn’t going to compromise her gaits for my spot on the rail, so I passed a lot of people. She won a lot of ribbons. One judge actually asked for an extended trot (not common at that time). As she dropped her hind end and went into her 36 inch overstride trot, the judge quit watching the other horses and just watched her, all around the arena. We won that class (the second place horse was the previous year’s world champion).

As far as the OP, what is your goal for this horse. At 3 1/2 years old, you probably are not going to get him to even out, But, depending on your goals, that might not be a problem.

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Although I rode primarily hunters, I also showed WP some back in the early 70’s in open shows in pursuit of high point trophies. We rode in what you describe as “collected west coast style.” My little mare had a wonderful slow, collected, rocking horse canter.

I was away from horses and showing for quite a while but moved back home and went to a couple of shows with my sister in the late 80s/early 90s to help her with some sale horses and I about fell over when I saw the WP classes.

I disagree. Go watch some videos of WP classes at the 2022 Congress. Do I like what I see? No, I don’t. But, things have definitely improved since the bad old days. The head carriage is more natural. You see horses passing each other. The jogs are improving (by my standards) on many of the horses. The canters are still pretty universally abysmal (by my standards), but they are getting better (by my standards).

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The video of seen from 2022 is pretty horrific. If that’s better, I shudder to think how bad things must have been in the past.

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Depends on what you call the “bad old days”. Are they better now than 5-10 years ago? Maybe marginally. But as I said, 40 years ago people screamed about it and identified the problem and it only got worse. I could pass people and win 40 years ago (even in WP). I’m not impressed with the “improvement” you are seeing. We agree that things are still pretty abysmal.

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I think with the downhill conformation if a horse is really on it’s forehand it could predispose them to a mechanical laminitis.

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My farrier was showing my husband the variety of shoes he keeps on his truck. One was a super light aluminum eggbar shoe, or as he called it, the “WP Special.” I mean, there’s a reason he has it nicknamed as such :wink:

That may be more due to the typical life of a very young AQHA - the longe line yearlings and two year old pleasure horses are stalled most of the time. Maybe small turn outs. Nothing to allow them to move enough to develop healthy feet, because it would be tragic if they got so much as a scuff on their hair.

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Also so many of them have big 16hh+ bodies on tiny little feet. :grimacing: We have a 15.2-ish pleasure bred Paint at my barn who has feet smaller than my 14hh QH. My farrier has improved on her somewhat, but there’s only so much you can do when they’re born to have little teacup hooves.

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All horses naturally carry 60-65% of their weight in their forehands, regardless of conformation.

A horse would have to have freakishly atrocious confirmation to be so downhill as to cause mechanical laminitis.

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Maybe it’s just poor conformation then. A horse traveling naturally without a rider uses itself differently than with the added weight of a rider.

Well, yes, but that still has absolutely nothing to do with laminitis.

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Agree to disagree

The physiological mechanisms that cause laminitis are well documented. This isn’t really an “agree to disagree” topic.

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“Mechanical” founder/laminitis is not physiological. As I said, I disagree with you. If you want the last word, have at it.

“Road founder” is absolutely a physiological phenomenon. Perhaps you meant to say nutritional.

“Road founder” occurs due to acute trauma, such as when a horse gallops down pavement for an extended period of time or overloads one limb due to an injury in another. It has absolutely nothing to do with conformation.

It’s possible you actually mean “navicular” syndrome, not laminitis. Heel pain isn’t caused by a horse traveling on the forehand, but it can certainly be exacerbated by it. And a predisposition for developing these types of issues can be related to conformation, unlike laminitis.

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20 or more years ago they said the poll may not be lower than the withers. Well, that didn’t stick, did it? This won’t either.

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