Depends on why the rider has them on that particular horse. They have their place…that would not be on every horse, every ride or because you saw Frankie Famous using them on the Internet.
Also, those who jump big fences for big money are under a lot more pressure to produce results and those big fences are merciless on even small mistakes or minor disobedience. Tend to cut them some slack in my judgements, as opposed to some trainer warming up a barn full of <3’ Hunters for a nervous, underprepared riders.
They aren’t a crutch or patch for missing training.
@JenEM can you explain how you would use them, and with what exact purpose? Not to argue, because I am genuinely curious of the benefits that some people speak of.
I think it sets a terrible precedent. I am reminded of the GM New years clinics and how the eq riders struggle with basic halt transtions, heads fling up and brace against the hand. I wonder how many riders can pose and look pretty till they need to dig deeper? Is this why the american riders do flatwork, not dressage?
I hate DR, hate them. Don’t create more problems long term because you need to get over the jump. I can always tell the topline of DR horses and not, even if they give the pressure it still chops the horse in half.
A 4th level horse should be trained to maintain the balance between jumps, otherwise the training is way too specific to just the sandbox. It’s not functional.
I get it, they are attractive and leverage always works. It probably feels correct and “better” to many.
Honestly, if a horse has a “draw rein topline”, he has been used far too much in it and changed his way of going to accommodate it, and it has probably been used incorrectly.
On the plus side for draw reins, if a horse is going around wrong for a long time, then his musculastructure (sp?)
is going to develop wrong.
I’m a firm believer in solid flatwork before jumping so this does not become an issue, and I have used plastic bits for aeons…like since the early '70’s for hunting, and more. I cannot bear the thought of a horse having pain in the mouth and not being able to accept the bit…poor things.
Add me to the “jumped in drawreins” crew, though I have never once ridden a horse in draw-reins by my own decision. I was gifted a pair of really nice draw reins over six years ago and they’ve not been touched once. But on catch rides, and in the IDA, if I was instructed to tack up with them, I did.
You can jump in draw-reins ‘reasonably’ safely as long as you thread the draw-portion of the DR through either a martingale strap or a stirrup leather strapped around the neck. I prefer the latter. This keeps the horse’s legs out of the reins but it is not a failsafe and the better solution is to not jump with DRs at all. I won’t jump a greenie in DR as they tend to prop and jump knees to their eyeballs over new fences.
In the IDA I took part of, DRs were routinely used on the very hard-mouthed horses. Most of them came that way but I argue that the less-than-classical riding might have had a hand in keeping it that way. We had several GP horses come through. One was fairly high profile and I was one of the first students on him once he settled in. He had the deadest mouth I’ve ever felt. Absolutely incredible horse to ride but the amount of upper body strength he “required” (or rather, was conditioned to expect) was astounding. He was regularly ridden in DR to encourage him to ride down and out rather than “up and collected”, and by the end of the year he was much softer in the mouth, but not cured.
The horses I jumped in DR were done so under the instruction of my trainer, who had me ride a few client horses who could get really naughty after a fence. Draw reins do not really have a whole lot of stopping power behind them but they make it difficult for the horse to grab the bit and bolt, which I think is the only purpose to have DRs on field should be for.
I personally prefer, if I need that type of security, to ride in a harbridge, which I have done many times when first taking a fresh OTTB on their first “open land” ride. But not to jump in.
Speaking about the impression given by pictures and videos being posted online from idols, we have no idea of they use them for 5 mins or 5 yrs. It sets a standard that they are ok, and people will take that as a green light.
DR feel good, if you want control, you get “control”. Riding a horse forward and bold takes guts. It’s nice to have that brake, if you are on a big strong horse! They offer a nice fix that those who have not ridden classically might see as beneficial.
So it’s my concern that they will be more and more used because trainers don’t take a stance against them, and even promote them to some degree. That is the LAST thing an already precarious system needs.
Sure, I am realistic enough to see that a ruined horse might need them, but if a horse had that bad of a mouth, why would I want to risk JUMPING him? That is very unsafe. JMHO.
I know my jumping has slid as a result of my classical dressage, but I’m ok with that. I had to swallow a huge pill of reality, but I have to stick to my theory and what I know is in the best interest of MY horse.
do you learn by riding hard mouthed horses? I am genuinely curious, to me it doesn’t offer much learning. The DR just keep them in that hole… the lack of proper school horses keeps people in the dark on what proper contact feels like. At some point the tide needs to change culturally. JMHO, I don’t know anything really about IDA, sorry.
@Jealoushe , if you can track down a copy of De Nemethy’s Classic Show Jumping, there’s a whole chapter on draw reins and lunging that’s quite interesting, and explained much better than I can do it justice.
That said, I was reluctant to use them, because Gadget. But I have a horse whose method of evasion is to get all giraffey and avoid coming into contact and on to the bit. I basically use them like balancing/sliding sidereins are used, but under saddle, so that there is a range where they’re not at all engaged, when the horse is going correctly, or getting close to correct. Like I said, I usually use them for one or two rides after the horse has had some time off in the winter, remind her where the proper range of going is. I find that less wear and tear on the horse than lunging in sidereins, as you’re not restricted to a circle, and it’s much easier to release them than sidereins, too.
It depends. I learned a lot while I was on the team. I had never ridden a GP horse before I joined the IDA, and the most “dressage training” any horse of mine had was what I put on them as an eventer, so not much beyond 1st level. It was a tremendous opportunity for me. Part of being a student in the IDA is that you do not get to make calls about the tack or attire the horse you are riding wears.
On that same note, you don’t really get to pick and choose the training history on the horse that comes into the program: IDA is in sore need of quality school horses and most of them that get donated are either retiring from UL competition (IME the most common as it has the biggest tax write off) or they are horses that were in big barns that are not sound enough for UL efforts. You’d think that horses that come from BNT wouldn’t have holes in their training, but you’d be wrong - not every horse is perfect or has perfect history, same for the people that owned and trained them. Some are not a big deal, but some gaps require major retraining on the school’s behalf. You have to work with what you have. For that reason a lot of the programs focus on the rider, getting them to develop independent seat and the education to fix the problems that the donated horses present them with, rather than focus on “starting from the ground up” with the horse. Coaches/instructors are typically in charge of tack attire, every horse will have their own tack that you tack up with - sometimes it’s just a bridle and saddle; other times it’s a de-gogue, or somedays it’s cavesson, side-reins & surcingle.
For the horse I mentioned above, the DR did help. I did my first UL movements on that horse and he taught me so much about upper-body positioning, core strength and independent seat. You needed SO much upper body strength to ride that horse. In the beginning he was so dead to the mouth that a half-halt would have him pull you out of the saddle, and he came to the program with a very strong rooting habit. Riding with DRs encouraged him to be able to accept HH and rein aids without bracing or rooting, and kept him soft and seeking contact without heavy handedness or a firm grip on the reins, which IMHO, was what he was used to. He was the type to get very hollow and invert vertically whilst getting strung out at the same time, and the DRs kept him from getting there. He really expected you to hold his head/mouth/neck up firmly, and if you gave him slack and rode him off of your seat it was wildly difficult to keep him from getting strung out. He is an extreme example of a horse that IMHO was ridden with lots of excessive force on the mouth. He was weaned off of DRs after a few months in the program.
Not all dressage horses are ridden that way, and my sample size was quite small, but all of the dressage horses donated to the program were incredibly hard-mouthed. It was not unique to this horse.
I think DRs do have uses, and can help in the right situation. For my own personal horses that situation has not arisen yet.
“…in our day to day training, we keep simple bridles, simple tack. We’re not an operation that believes in big bits, big spurs, we try to keep everything a little bit soft. We do use draw reins, you know there’s a lot of debate back and forth now in the world of show jumping. 99% of our horses work in draw reins. I think used properly it’s not a crutch, and I don’t think it’s a harsh training device. I think if anything it’s softer because it encourages the horse to work in a good shape without being too demanding on them, and I think in the right hands, used well, it’s an esential part of our bag of equipment.”
Question : Do you see mistakes being made when others use draw reins?
“I think there can be mistakes made with any piece of equipment. Rarely, you know, I see people who use draw reins sometimes better than others, but I rarely see cases that I would consider inappropriate. Again, we find it to be a nice, simple way to get the horse to work well through his back without really coming out and demanding a lot of the horse every day. It encourages them, in our opinion, to work in the correct way. And I see, especially at the top level of the sport, it used to ill effect very rarely.”
Question : Do you change anything in your riding style when using draw reins?
“Well, I think, you know, it doesn’t change the philosophy that you work the horse from back to front, you’ve always got to push the horse up. The draw rein is not to pull the horse’s head down, it’s to encourage them to drop down into a great place where their back comes up and they work from behind.”
What I meant was used wrong there is no release. I will be honest. I am a little bias because I’ve only ever seen them using incorrectly. Where the rider gives no release even when the horse is hyper flexing. A horse who is honestly trying and really has no need for them. In the correct hands I am sure they could be a helpful tool. But too many people see a professional or someone who claims they are a pro use a tool and think they can do the same. That’s my experience. Or draw reins with a shanked bit. That drives me up a wall. All softening, in my opinion, should be done in a snaffle.
[I]"The active drawrein, pulling the bit down and in, in a direction between the attatchment at the girth and the hands, trap the horse. There is room to move inside the confinement, but not in the desired direction - forward-down-out, the horse can however curl back in
It is a hassle to try to give with the drawrein while maintaining contact on the regular rein. At its best, the draw rein can be used so that it is taut when the horse tries to poke his nose, and loose when he relaxes the jaw. The greater part of the work must naturally be done relaxed, and not “fighting” the drawreins. This is not the norm, when riders use drawreins, and no wonder. If it were, they wouldn’t need them!
Just like pulling the reins down along the sides of the shoulders on a stargazing horse will not help the outline, the horse’s first natural instinct is to fight the pull form the drawreins, pulling down on his mouth. What the regular reins are supposed to do is not place the head down, but merely relax the jaw and tongue so that the horse will stretch the rein. The horse is the one lowering, not the rider or the gadget!"
I’ll give you a couple more examples. Both were rehab cases. One was a working rehab–following a specific exercise protocol. The horse had done something soft-tissue like in her glutes/hip/SI area. She was to do long and low trotting for forever. Only she was a hot mare who liked to invert, tuck tail and scoot periodically out of the “scary” end of the ring. Or whenever she really felt like it. Probably how she injured herself in the first place but would really set her back in rehab. So, I started riding every single ride during her rehab in draw reins. They were loose enough she could stretch as prescribed, but she’d hit them if she went to really invert and scoot. It would stop the inversion before it got too bad and provide some extra brakes.
Another time, I was doing some first rehab rides on a young horse who had had a lot of time off. He’d been doing some groundwork which showed a propensity to really fling his head high in the air. Again, I had the draw reins loose, but they were there to protect my face by not allowing his head to crack me in the nose. I chose that tool over a tight martingale, because I didn’t know the horse well enough and felt confident in the education of my hands versus having the horse hit something more rigid–wasn’t sure how he’d respond to the martingale and didn’t want to flip.
And then a third, non-rehab situation was one horse who tended to be very high, light in the front end, and up and down when fresh. I had the job of the pre-show exercise/tuneup rides for his kid. I also took him out hacking, which got him worked up at first. He responded very well to occasional use of draw reins, particularly when fresh. It allowed me to really kick him into a gallop and get him stretching (vs going up and down) so that he would settle down. Then, I could loosen or remove the draw reins and continue with the ride. He’d also been bitted up by the trainer for his kid, and I preferred him in a snaffle, because I felt the stronger bit got him behind the contact. For whatever reason, he wasn’t one to curl in response to draw reins, so they actually helped to get him back on the contact on the snaffle, but it gave me some strength when needed. As many have said, unlike a harsher bit, it’s a tool you can choose to release while still maintaining contact with the snaffle rein. Lots of horses with similar issues do not respond the same way as this horse to their use. They can get heavy, fake connection, etc. But some horses like this one seemed to like them when used occasionally, and so they were a useful tool.
I’ve used draw reins on a few horses.Never jumping. I actually like the fact I get to control the pressure and release. Every horse should be ridden in a snaffle, but sometimes I’m on a Craigslist purchase and I prefer to have a bit of control if I need it as we are figuring each other out. I prefer them to riding in side reins or other martingales, except for a running. I like to be in charge of the control.
@IPEsq thanks very much for explaining. Sounds like a martingale would have a similar use, just a different approach.
@mmeqcenter thank you for typing that out! It sounds like he uses them when it’s too much work to get the horse to work correctly. Not sure I agree with that myself.
It looks like I’m in the minority, but I’ve actually used them to get my horse’s head UP. I have a young, big, leaning horse who likes to canter with his head ridiculously low. I’ve put draw reins on him twice… attached to the d-rings on my saddle… just to let him pull on himself a little and show him that he does not, in fact, need to canter with his head between his ankles.
Since I was almost always shopping on a budget, I used them on several I bought who had been through the ringer training wise, most notably on one that
would lull you into complacency then abruptly invert and bolt followed by breaking in half. Obviously horse had been successful unloading riders that way for some time-of course sellers failed to share that when I bought it using the old " we don’t have time" It was more self defense then anything else and they did work extremely well allowing enough control to contain the bolt and leg him through the buck while applying a little discipline. Horse got the point PDQ and they returned to the back corner of the tack room after a few weeks.
Some people use them appropriately and briefly on green horses having trouble understanding how to arrange themselves. But I’d guess more then half the riders I see are using them inappropriately, as a routine piece of daily equipment replacing basic training and that I am no fan of. I’m pretty sure sure MW rides with those who know why and when and rarely sees misuse. I HATE seeing them in show warm up rings on puddle jumpers and speed bump Hunters. Absolutely no need…not like the rider in those low level classes has a solid seat and legs of iron or risks the horse getting strong and rude leaving long in front of a 1.4m triple combination in a $100k class.
I fault the entry level trainers and some mid level types who lack education in theory and solid basics, patience, skill in the saddle and ability to teach. Better, smarter trainers may use gadgets and gimmicks but they a) know what they are doing b) leave them at home and don’t publically advertise horses in their program need them and c) work towards losing the gimmick, not making the horse and rider dependent upon them.
People have always seen things on the net or TV and thought it was a good idea to copy what they see…remember Jackass? That’s the fault of poor parenting and/or sub par or no coaching, not the person on the net or telly.
I used them for about 8 weeks on my late 4yo during the fall and winter, about 2x a week. She was dead set convinced that the only way to travel under saddle was hollow. She lunged with side reins in her regular tack and stretched out gorgeously, and her natural carriage even when playing is fairly long and low.
I put the DR on , warmed up without touching them, as I wanted her existing muscles to be loose and working before I asked her to challenge herself. I would use them for maybe 15-20 minutes, fairly loosely, just a suggestion that “perhaps there is a more comfortable place for your head to be”. At first just walk trot, and then after a couple weeks I’d work her at all gaits in them. Then I’d slack the DR back off and ask her to continue to work and stretch down.
She quickly got the point about where I wanted her face to be, and I haven’t touched my DR in over 6 months, and we’re working on actually engaging and stepping under herself and keeping that more consistently now. Prior to the DR we had been at a stalemate of her stretching when I was on the ground but not in the saddle, and running out of ideas to get her to put that concept together.
