Dressage Day 2

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=Lost_at_C;6477970]
Since I’m experiencing some show-jumping-day malaise, I rewatched Hester’s ride repeatedly and in slow motion. I can confirm that in the first extended trot at least, the hind legs definitely land first. It’s a bit tricky because the angle of the sun means that the forelegs are in shadow and the hind legs are not, and of course camera angles can always be deceiving. However, I did isolate at least three frames of hind hooves landed when front hooves were just barely aloft. As I’m such a geek I will now go back and look at the other trots in the same test… I should really get a life.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t see it on slo moing myself. If you have the MBC coverage they do some slo mo of moves after each ride. That’s where I saw it. It’s VERY clear. It’s not just the hind feet landing first, it’s also that they were NOT diagonal with the front feet, and in fact following behind the front feet. Interesting if he does this regularly that he gets 10’s because it IS incorrect and used to be called toe-flipping and was almost always knocked down.

Briar was like that (love him.) He had an “impressive” trot until you looked at the hind end and noticed that it was not moving parallelly (OK, wrong word–tired, just got back from a show) to the front.

[fish]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;6478492]
I didn’t see it on slo moing myself. If you have the MBC coverage they do some slo mo of moves after each ride. That’s where I saw it. It’s VERY clear. It’s not just the hind feet landing first, it’s also that they were NOT diagonal with the front feet, and in fact following behind the front feet. Interesting if he does this regularly that he gets 10’s because it IS incorrect and used to be called toe-flipping and was almost always knocked down.

Briar was like that (love him.) He had an “impressive” trot until you looked at the hind end and noticed that it was not moving parallelly (OK, wrong word–tired, just got back from a show) to the front.[/QUOTE]

It is NOT “incorrect,” and Uthopia is definitely NOT a toe-flipper. The hind feet landing first is the result of collection and activity which increase the push, raise the forehand and earn those 10’s. Watch this horse: his toes do not “flip.” The entire forehand is raised as the hind legs push so the front feet barely touch the ground, towards which the toes consistently point. Toe-flippers flip the toes UP, while the hind legs trail instead of landing first and pushing. They’re not the ones who get 10’s. The judges giving Uthopia those 10’s know what they’re seeing, and it sure the H___ isn’t “toe-flipping!”

[ShannonLee]

Dressage is a sport ideayoda, and doing a GP test is the ultimate of the sport. Would you have the horses not breathe? Goodness knows no other athletes at the Olympics need to breathe heavily to get the oxygen needed to compete for a gold medal…

[SaddleFitterVA]

[QUOTE=ideayoda;6478081]
Riderwriter it IS a serious fault

And I love the mike by the flowers…you hear the GRATING of teeth (on half the horses), the sheaths sucking air in the tensed bellys, and the walrus sound is the compressed throatlatches and attempting to inhale. I will bet they are NEVER put next to the ring again, it falls under give the publc TMI about what is really happening. Those which are properly ifv are quiet, you only hear soft breathing.[/QUOTE]

On the sheaths sucking in air…I’ve never noticed any association with tension. If anything, there seems to be more “gelding noise” when they are more relaxed.

I’ll pay more attention to this in the future for further observations.

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=fish;6478689]
It is NOT “incorrect,” and Uthopia is definitely NOT a toe-flipper. The hind feet landing first is the result of collection and activity which increase the push, raise the forehand and earn those 10’s. Watch this horse: his toes do not “flip.” The entire forehand is raised as the hind legs push so the front feet barely touch the ground, towards which the toes consistently point. Toe-flippers flip the toes UP, while the hind legs trail instead of landing first and pushing. They’re not the ones who get 10’s. The judges giving Uthopia those 10’s know what they’re seeing, and it sure the H___ isn’t “toe-flipping!”[/QUOTE]

I’m tired from a show. I meant to say “like” toe flipping. The diagonal legs not being parallel IS a problem. I do not know if Uthophia does this all of the time, but in the slow mo I saw he was not even close to parallel. I did not say the hind feet were landing first–they were lagging, so leaving the ground AFTER the front feet and hitting the ground while before the front feet–taking shorter strides behind, not in front.

[TrinitySporthorses]

[QUOTE=SaddleFitterVA;6478794]
On the sheaths sucking in air…I’ve never noticed any association with tension. If anything, there seems to be more “gelding noise” when they are more relaxed.

I’ll pay more attention to this in the future for further observations.[/QUOTE]

It is noticeably correlated in my gelding, FWIW

[TrinitySporthorses]

[QUOTE=NOMIOMI1;6476815]
Valegro is very earthbound compared to Parzival (not bad just different). [/QUOTE]

But when I first fell in love with Valegro 2 years ago, he was no where near the way he is now. I was so impressed with his lightness and “springy-ness.”
I have no problem with big engines and muscular physiques but I maintain that he had a lot of flab, which was particularly evident in the collected work and the slow mo’s.

For those who are discussing the diagonal pairing of legs at the trot: the hindleg SHOULD land moments before the opposite front when watching slo-mo trot work. It means the horse is taking more weight on the hind end (thus making him uphill and more powerful- which is what we want!). There is even a NAME for this phenomenon: DAP, or Diagonal Advanced Placement. It can be positive (meaning hindleg strikes first) or negative (foreleg first).
Any horse that naturally lands foreleg first is no upper level dressage candidate as it means he is very on the forehand. I look at all my young horses frame by frame when I am making sales video or taking pictures and it is natural for them to have positive DAP.

[TrinitySporthorses]

[QUOTE=Mardi;6477807]
Have to say I’m really enjoying the no-commentary on the NBC live stream. I can hear the PA announcer, the jets landing at Heathrow, crowd applause, riders talking, horses sneezing, post-ride inspection chatter… I feel more connected to it without a commentator talking over it.

just mho…[/QUOTE]

I totally agree :yes:

[Mad_Mare]

[QUOTE=ShannonLee;6478783]
Dressage is a sport ideayoda, and doing a GP test is the ultimate of the sport. Would you have the horses not breathe? Goodness knows no other athletes at the Olympics need to breathe heavily to get the oxygen needed to compete for a gold medal…[/QUOTE]

Her point is that they can’t breathe, because they are being compressed at the throatlatch. The ones that aren’t compressed as much breathe much more quietly.

Eileen

[Beentheredonethat]

[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;6478883]
I’m tired from a show. I meant to say “like” toe flipping. The diagonal legs not being parallel IS a problem. I do not know if Uthophia does this all of the time, but in the slow mo I saw he was not even close to parallel. I did not say the hind feet were landing first–they were lagging, so leaving the ground AFTER the front feet and hitting the ground while before the front feet–taking shorter strides behind, not in front.[/QUOTE]

I did NOT say the hind leg landing first was incorrect, I said the hind leg LAGGING and not being parallel was incorrect. I know what DAP is. Of course, when I go to try to find day 1 of dressage to find the minute marker where you can see this on the NBC site, day 1 of dressage is the only one I can’t find. Argh. Stuff just blinks in and out on that site all of the time.

As for breathing, pshaw. I couldn’t crank my mare’s neck in like that with a winch, but she sounds like a train ALL of the time, ESPECIALLY when she is relaxed and walking. I call BS that a correct horse breathes “more quietly.” When I listened to two days of dressage, it sounded like most of those horses were choo chooing along.

[Crockpot]

So much negativity here.

The judges were apparently impressed with the quality of horses and riders,for example

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2012/08/05/maribel-alonso-place-b

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2012/08/04/presidential-view-olympic-grand-prix

But they are always wrong -BiG sigh-and should consult the forum experts!

Meanwhile in the peanut gallery, top horses are too fat, pigeon-toed,and because of incorrect riding and training are suffocating and have incorrect gaits.

Glass is always half empty in the peanut gallery.

[Lost_at_C]

What Fish and Crockpot said. Maybe I should stick to talking to myself about the dressage rides.

[Beentheredonethat]

Naw, Lost at C–I’ll talk with you. I LIKE to discuss what I’m seeing and what other people see. The problem is everyone else is seeing it so much earlier than I am. And I’m not going to be here for the rest fo the dressage, so will be REALLY late in the discussion!

[Lost_at_C]

Cool BTDT… we may not always agree but I’m more than up for some respectful, knowledgable debate. What I sometimes find irritating on this board are the entrenched ideologies and the way that people take overly simplistic sides like it’s some kind of olympic sport in its own right.

My sincere and profound sympathies at your inability to watch the dressage live… that’s tragic!

[Beentheredonethat]

Well, I COULD watch live, but I am NOT getting up at 3 am, and then, poor, poor me, I’ll be in Hawaii on Tuesday, so I don’t think I can get my NBC link there.

You know, I just finished the SJ replay so went back to look at dressage. I still can NOT find any link to day 1 of dressage, but now the replay link of day 2 has commentors??? When I first watched it, it didn’t. Now it’s only 48 minutes instead of the four hours.

BTW, just watched Colecto’s extended trot in the slo mo and am happy to report the diagonals were parallel and went where the toes pointed.