Why on earth would you go to one of the top two international events - World Championships being the other - with low caliber judges?
[QUOTE=Elegante E;3456735]
Seriously, would it kill the dressage powers that be to have at least the head of the judges not be such an interested party? Kind of makes one wish we could just have judges from countries not competing. May not be of the caleber of the top judges but hopefully at least if there were scoring mistakes they would be truly mistakes.[/QUOTE]
The gymnastics people do that, and the US commentators were complaining about it yesterday, that maybe they weren’t knowledgable enough to score correctly, and were too impressed by reputations. :lol:
[QUOTE=Elegante E;3456735]
Seriously, would it kill the dressage powers that be to have at least the head of the judges not be such an interested party? Kind of makes one wish we could just have judges from countries not competing. May not be of the caleber of the top judges but hopefully at least if there were scoring mistakes they would be truly mistakes.[/QUOTE]
I know three of the best judges who should have been there :
Steven Clark (GB), Vincent Truppa (Italy), Jacques van Daele (Belgium)
Theo
Lesser judges will be even more unsure of themselves and more vulnerable. That won’t work.
It is not that the others complaining about the judging aren’t sour-grapes’ing it. They are. The standings and the scores are very, very unlikely to change now, what’s over is over, and to my knowledge I rarely, rarely hear the majority here say ANY competition satisfied them, either the quality of the riders OR the judging. Further, wailing because Balagur didn’t do better…come on now. He just wasn’t that good. Sure I love his story and all but come on.
Everyone has been saying all along Reixinger was just too harsh on the Dutch and Americans. Since he is the president of the judges I figured it was just how it was going to be. You can’t name too many occasions when the president of the judges gets told what to do, to stop doing what he’s doing, or that he is going too far.
At the same time, I am not so sure Ravel could have scored a LOT higher or moved up much. There were still obvious ‘greenie’ things in his tests. In all of them. I’m not greedy. He did his first GP test this spring (May, March, who gives a shit it’s still only a few months at GP, he doesn’t even have a year under his belt before going to the Olympics), I don’t even think he should be having to be pushed this year.
I understand why Satchmo was scored where he was, and why his score wasn’t lower. I understand Anky’s score in the freestyle, it was much freer and more relaxed than the GP or GPS…but I thought it would be close to 80, not 82.
I think it even surprised her. one I think could have scored quite a bit higher, was Imke, as well as Courtney, even though her rides (all) were still conservative and too careful (I also think a careful ride is what she should be expected to be doing now) and I think her freestyle could have been simpler and more direct. I think of all of them she was the one who should have moved up the most in the standings (2-3 positions).
As a few of us noticed after watching the selection trials videos, Courtney’s music was uninspired and did nothing to enhance the ride. If anything, it made it feel even more boring and conservative than it was. I haven’t looked at the scores to compare the aesthetic to the technical, but if I had to find fault, that is where it would be.
the judging from the team event hopefully will also be studied. For the german to have Imke in 18 position when the others had her 4th was bizarre.
Wasn’t the complaint raised by the (winning) Dutch?? How can that be sour-grapes?
Saying the music is boring or not inspirational, I don’t go along with critiquing the music that way, I try to focus on if the music was appropriate to the horse and the choreography, and if the tempo matched the horse’s gaits well. A person should be able to do a freestyle with any genre of music - rock, dance hall, classical. I don’t think anyone should pick at a freestyle based on “I don’t like that type of music”. I think the problem with Courtney’s music is a lack of clear rhythm, it’s almost impressionistic - it’s BEAUTIFUL music in and of itself. As far as him short in the neck, sure, but do you really think he can be ridden in any other way than that? He’s massive in front.
[QUOTE=slc2;3456653]
So now I need to defend myself for using the word ‘surprised’?
Come on.
I’m not even going to consider doing that.
I have sheaths to clean, sump pump cisterns to clean out, and a dead mouse in the tack room sink who looks like other mice partly ate him, and he seems FAR more appealing than defending my choice of word, ‘surprised’.[/QUOTE]
Back away from the keyboard how do you have a farm and horses and spend this much time on this board…:lol::no: not to mention all the opinions…SIGH
Before you go in this direction, do some research on gymnastics in these Olympics. They instituted a system where the judges in the individual event finals were not from the countries of the competitors. The judging this week has been at least as controversial as the dressage judging.
[QUOTE=Madeline;3457175]
Before you go in this direction, do some research on gymnastics in these Olympics. They instituted a system where the judges in the individual event finals were not from the countries of the competitors. The judging this week has been at least as controversial as the dressage judging.[/QUOTE]
Saw some of that but there has to be a better way than letting obviously biased individuals run things. At least, the ghymnasts have overseers which helps some. Seems to me, in the end, there was lots of good scoring as well.
OK so maybe the gymnastic judges should judge dressage and vice versa. Work the figure skating judges in there somehow too.
for Olympics and World Champ. - add judges at K and F -there will now be three judges across ‘top’ of arena and 4 on sides - throw out top and bottom scores - will still have 5 scores
Agree with slc2 - Courtney’s horse is definitely short in the neck - massive front end - extremely difficult to get out there - as was his sire’s Ferro. There really isn’t another way for him to go. She does a masterful job with that horse. She really didn’t risk much but no major bobbles. Looking at her scores - esp. for the GP and GPS - judging was all over the map with that one too. Its deplorable. They certainly could have hired a better bunch!
I felt Courtney’s scores were the most difficult to understand, and were also probably the most difficult to give.
It’s not supposed to be a freaking beauty contest. If the horse’s neck is short because the rider is holding it in…counts against you. If, however, physically the horse’s neck is short…get over it… (They have managed to find a way to judge the Andalusians & Lusitanos whose heads are practically attached to their shoulders). I also felt that almost all the GP rides were frenetic not energetic.
I’m stunned that judges at that level are still picking flash over substance. (or maybe I’m just stunned…I happen to like the sport, but not what they were endorsing at these Olympics.)
Edited to add - I do think the top rides in the kur were deserving - I’m mostly talking about the also-rans
Agree completely.
Dressage was never meant to be a conformation class. I believe it’s supposed to be about getting a horse – ANY horse – to use it’s self in the best way possible for the task at hand…
Seb 
A question?
So who is complaining about the judging? Could not read the language.
Splain please.
I just watched courtneys, a half of Steffens, Isabels and Ankys.
What is up with Satchmo and the Piaffe? Again with the kicking and backing. IS he just so behind her leg there? At one point he stalled out.
It had lovely parts but Nothing like the special even with the error.
Salinero… well his Piaffe is far more solid, But seriosly his trot and canter half passes were witout expression, at one he barely moved. And Heres my biggest question And I really want to know WHY so much angle of the curb on that horse it seems like he is ridden totally off the curb rein. IT was alomost always straight. I thought that was something one did not do at that level. You do see alot of hand riding from Anky, Why?
I think Steffens horse was really nice, He had some glitches, but I thought it was better than scored.
The anouncer said Anky got some 10s. what were they for?
Not looking for an argument just would like to know.
If I had a dollar for every time you ask the same questions, Sannois, I’d be rich. :lol: Suffice to say, the judges had a different idea about several movements than you did. And I don’t think all the judges are entirely inept, corrupt, etc.
The curb chain is at that angle because she leaves the curb chain so loose. Look at the horse’s bridle some time. The curb chain couldn’t be put on there any looser.
Better yet, ride in a double bridle. Once the tension is taken up on the curb chain, the shank of the bit can’t go any further back. It is not physically possible.
How far back the curb shank can move is determined by how long the curb chain is, not by how hard the rider pulls.
The WORST abuse of the horse’s mouth occurs when the curb chain is really tight. Then the curb bit can be perfectly parallel to the mouth, and be ripping the horse’s head off.
[QUOTE=Sannois;3457469]
So who is complaining about the judging? Could not read the language.
Splain please.
I just watched courtneys, a half of Steffens, Isabels and Ankys.
What is up with Satchmo and the Piaffe? Again with the kicking and backing. IS he just so behind her leg there? At one point he stalled out.
It had lovely parts but Nothing like the special even with the error.
Salinero… well his Piaffe is far more solid, But seriosly his trot and canter half passes were witout expression, at one he barely moved. And Heres my biggest question And I really want to know WHY so much angle of the curb on that horse it seems like he is ridden totally off the curb rein. IT was alomost always straight. I thought that was something one did not do at that level. You do see alot of hand riding from Anky, Why?
I think Steffens horse was really nice, He had some glitches, but I thought it was better than scored.
The anouncer said Anky got some 10s. what were they for?
Not looking for an argument just would like to know.[/QUOTE]
Anky received only one 10 and thas was for the transition from PA-PI-PA
