I used to have a Haflinger who was similar. Very strong, and she was used to getting away with it because she had been a lesson horse. The key was to train her out of it using a combination of things but mainly the demi arret (slight uplift of hand when she got too heavy) and a pelham. In her case, I used a pelham with a double jointed mouthpiece and 2 reins. That way I could just ride on the snaffle if she was being good, but I had the curb if she was being evil. Eventually, I got her so she could be ridden in a jumping hackamore (leather noseband, no leverage). Part of the key was to never let her get away with anything, since she’d take any little opening she could find.
I’ll share my experiences with both a high-headed and very forward (runaway) Arab as well as our Welsh pony.
The Arab would run through pretty much anything, but eventually was able to go in a KK lozenge bit after countless hours of lunging and flatwork. A stopgap we used for him during the process was a standing martingale, so that he could not get that head up and brace his neck to run away. Not dressage legal, but it helped immensely in schooling.
The pony, too, eventually went in the same KK bit (hard to find in a 4-1/2", but I was able to use it twice, so win!). Anyway, he took countless hours of walk, halt, back, walk, halt, back. He would get so annoyed he would swish his little tail and stomp his back feet every time I asked. But it really tuned him up to the aids and he got to where he would actually register a half halt. After walking, we proceeded to trotting, then cantering, until the half-halts worked at all three gaits.
Best of luck to you with your pony!
Thanks everyone! His new single jointed loose ring just got here today, so we’ll be trying that out tomorrow. We do do lots of rude halts and one-rein stops when he decides he wants to be a pony. I haven’t really found backing up to help much, as he used to have a rearing problems and tends to threaten to go up if I have him back. However, I have backed him all the way up a steep 40’ hill before and that helped me than anything.
He has a fantastic little relaxed canter, which is great, but the trotting is sometimes a mess. We believe he has Icelandic in him because he doesn’t tolt, but does something super similar when we’re arguing about whether to walk or trot.
Anyway, for everyone that wants pictures, I can’t get any to load, but the adorable little demon pony in question has his own instagram. It’s @Scotch_ThePony because I’m a loser.
[QUOTE=mdm_114;8919036]
Thanks everyone! His new single jointed loose ring just got here today, so we’ll be trying that out tomorrow. [/QUOTE]
Just going to add a note. Many horses find the nutcracker effect of a single joint to be too painful and get pretty fussy/resist the contact every time the reins are picked up. If you find trouble with that, try something with a double joint or Mullen next.
OMG, he’s a cutie! And man, can he jump!!
I agree, if he has a tendency to rear, both of my methods would not be advised. However, I do agree with SugarRush, a single jointed bit might cause issues, depending on his palate.
Good luck to you, he looks like a whippersnapper, lol.
Oh, and I forgot to mention… have you tried a mullen mouth? It’s dressage legal and can be surprisingly effective!
My husband rides a Haflinger who was trained as a driving horse (first) and a riding horse (second)… he also pulls sleighs, does logging, drives in teams and is used to throwing his chest/head into the ride VS. using his hind end. That said, with his driving experience, he’s curb chain trained. When training in dressage, he schools in a KK Pelham bit. When he needs to remind him to get his head in / become round, a touch on the curb rein is a good and familiar reminder. When it comes time to show, we replace his bit with an identical KK bean snaffle bit.
No advice but I do what to say he is one of the cutest things I have ever seen!
He’s awfully cute. I’ve had good luck with a Myler mullen mouth for strong ponies. Its comes in a 4.5" and doesn’t tap them in the top of the mouth when you give a stronger half halt. What worked for me was lots of trails just walking on a loose rein learning how to relax under saddle.
He liked it okay, but when I had to kind of be an ass and really halt him, he threw a little bit more of a fit than he normally does. I’m working on getting both a double jointed and a mullen mouth, just trying to find somewhere a little cheaper or where I can send them back if necessary. He has a Stubben 4-in-1 double jointed bit that he goes well in, and a rubber mullen pelham. But I do really really like the effect of the loose ring on him.
What is a rude halt?
I have a horse that can be heavy and rude. I switched him to a waterford to get him out of my hands and focus on my seat and legs. The bit gives him absolutely nothing to lean on so he has to listen to me to find balance. The difference we’ve experienced is incredible.
Obviously this is simply for schooling but I had to find a way to make him let go of the bit. I can drive him into the bit and he just holds it and listen. After all of our reschooling I think I’ll try and put him back into a french link.
I wouldn’t show until you have achieved lightness.
OP, try retraining him in a dressage not-legal bit that he respects and work toward him being very LIGHT in that bit. Then transition to a dressage-legal bit. I have lots of experience retraining tough horses and it really is easier and kinder to get it right with what they respect and then transition.
For example, get him to be feather-light in a broken Segunda. Get him carrying himself from behind and not plunging down onto the bit. Use lots of transitions during that training etc. Get him moving and responding to your leg and seat.
You have a trainer who can work with you on lightness and aids.
Once you have him responding lightly in the tougher bit, he should be good to go in a softer, legal bit.
Now… there are many of you who will frown upon what I have said and I would not normally encourage training in a tough bit. But this is a made horse that is tough and he is not going to respect a bit that he does not feel. Not yet. He has to relearn how to submit to the aids first… okay… nuff said…
<ducking and running>
[QUOTE=Justmyluck;8925706]
I have a horse that can be heavy and rude. I switched him to a waterford to get him out of my hands and focus on my seat and legs. The bit gives him absolutely nothing to lean on so he has to listen to me to find balance. The difference we’ve experienced is incredible.
Obviously this is simply for schooling but I had to find a way to make him let go of the bit. I can drive him into the bit and he just holds it and listen. After all of our reschooling I think I’ll try and put him back into a french link.
I wouldn’t show until you have achieved lightness.[/QUOTE]
oops! Just saw this. This is along the lines of what I was saying above!
He is so cute!! He has a very short strong neck haha…when i saw his Instagram I could see exactly what you meant hehe.
No judgement if you go for s stronger bit. What may also help is lots of suppling of the neck and poll (jane savoie’s valium exercise), and long and low work to build his top neck and diminish his under neck. This can be accomplished through correct bending, suppling and half halts, and/or by using Vienna reins or a pessoa.
Schooling him to ride off your seat and slow down from that instead of your but would also be a big help. Jane savoie had some great info about that too. Ask softly with a chosen aid, rude stop if ilhe ignores you…immediately retest until he does it right.
He’s soo cute best of luck with him! I’m following you on Instagram now (ilikehorses17)
[QUOTE=Justmyluck;8925706]
I have a horse that can be heavy and rude. I switched him to a waterford to get him out of my hands and focus on my seat and legs. The bit gives him absolutely nothing to lean on so he has to listen to me to find balance. The difference we’ve experienced is incredible.
Obviously this is simply for schooling but I had to find a way to make him let go of the bit. I can drive him into the bit and he just holds it and listen. After all of our reschooling I think I’ll try and put him back into a french link.
I wouldn’t show until you have achieved lightness.[/QUOTE]
I’ve looked into getting a waterford, but I’m not sure how much it would help. He doesn’t lean on the bit, just pretty much runs right through it. He respects and is easier to control in his pelham and hackamore, but he’s still an 18hh grand prix horse stuck in a 12h body.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;8926769]
OP, try retraining him in a dressage not-legal bit that he respects and work toward him being very LIGHT in that bit. Then transition to a dressage-legal bit. I have lots of experience retraining tough horses and it really is easier and kinder to get it right with what they respect and then transition.
For example, get him to be feather-light in a broken Segunda. Get him carrying himself from behind and not plunging down onto the bit. Use lots of transitions during that training etc. Get him moving and responding to your leg and seat.
You have a trainer who can work with you on lightness and aids.
Once you have him responding lightly in the tougher bit, he should be good to go in a softer, legal bit.
Now… there are many of you who will frown upon what I have said and I would not normally encourage training in a tough bit. But this is a made horse that is tough and he is not going to respect a bit that he does not feel. Not yet. He has to relearn how to submit to the aids first… okay… nuff said…
<ducking and running>[/QUOTE]
Thank you! I haven’t ordered a Segunda yet, but there’s a chance I will be soon if he doesn’t respond well to either of the other bits I ordered today. I totally agree with you on schooling him in a harsher bit until he learns, and we have been working on that. He’s mostly in his hackamore since he likes that one the most, but he does sometimes get stuck in his pelham when he’s acting up.
[QUOTE=luvmydutch;8929010]
He is so cute!! He has a very short strong neck haha…when i saw his Instagram I could see exactly what you meant hehe.
No judgement if you go for s stronger bit. What may also help is lots of suppling of the neck and poll (jane savoie’s valium exercise), and long and low work to build his top neck and diminish his under neck. This can be accomplished through correct bending, suppling and half halts, and/or by using Vienna reins or a pessoa.
Schooling him to ride off your seat and slow down from that instead of your but would also be a big help. Jane savoie had some great info about that too. Ask softly with a chosen aid, rude stop if ilhe ignores you…immediately retest until he does it right.
He’s soo cute best of luck with him! I’m following you on Instagram now (ilikehorses17)[/QUOTE]
We followed you back. We’ve been working on the suppling for the past few months and we are slowly making progress. We’re still not quite where I want him to be as far as long and low goes yet.
I’ve never heard of Vienna reins- Are they like draw reins or something different? And I’ll definitely be looking up Jane Savoie! Thank you!
You can touch base with the folks at Bit of Britain about their bit rental program, which would give you the option to try before you buy.
It’s always the ponies that are strong in the bridle! The cuter, the more devious :winkgrin: I was riding the most adorable icelandic pony and I almost got run away with on more than one occasion. We started out with some stronger, not dressage legal bits and slowly stepped it down to a snaffle. It took some time though. He liked to run away at the canter, which in all fairness was predominately a balance issue, but it just took some practice for him to get acclimated to cantering with a rider and if we didn’t have a stronger bit on him we would have ended up in the next county over.
