DSLD and Hanoverians

[Smiles]

I have a hanovarian with dsdl. He sire is Welcome s. We bought him as a yearling. Nothing was wrong with him. I had hoped he was going to make a top hunter, but by 4 his fetlock had drop and now he is a pretty pasture ornament. I know of a couple other offspring of his that also had this happen too. All at a young age.

[Stacie]

@Smiles

I have a hanovarian with dsdl. He sire is Welcome s. We bought him as a yearling. Nothing was wrong with him. I had hoped he was going to make a top hunter, but by 4 his fetlock had drop and now he is a pretty pasture ornament. I know of a couple other offspring of his that also had this happen too. All at a young age.

That’s interesting. The colt that I described earlier was a Welcome S son. He had no stability between the 2nd and 3rd vertebra which is how his spine was damaged. Wobblers. We thought his dropping fetlocks were due to lack of nerve stimulation, but maybe that was not the case. I have his full sister. She is 10 and has no issues except needing to be barefoot to keep her heels back. Seriously, I had some of the best $$$ farriers work on her and only barefoot works. She’s beautiful. 16.3h and floats. I’ll never breed her because of those feet though.
I don’t think Welcome S was bred very much. That’s a lot of dsld foals for a lightly used stallion. I wonder which side it came from. Welcome was by World Cup I out of a g line mare.

[Megaladon]

@CanteringCarrot

It does not appear to be common thus far, but there just isn’t much chatter about it, which doesn’t mean it’s not there. IME it isn’t fairly common and the Spanish are fairly decent at culling breeding stock, but a disease that can present itself later on can be a bit more difficult if you’ve already bred the horse.

I would not breed a horse that has DSLD or has passed it. I have a gelding that would make a great stallion due to temperament, movement, and is a great example of the breed (morphological showing lines), but he self mutilates. It’s 95‰ gone with gelding, but I know it’s something he could have passed on. I just can’t pass that on to other owners and keep that going within the breed. I’ve still kept him around since he’s a great guy otherwise and I truly enjoy having him.

There are 2 other lines that may potentially carry DSLD that I’ve been watching, but not within the breeding of your horse, so this is interesting. Spanish horse hind leg conformation can also be misleading at times since a lot of them can be straight or sickle hocked and sink a little further down at the pasterns but not have DSLD or any serious issues.

What are these other lines that you are watching? (Just curious as an Andy owner myself) Sounds like such a devastating disease, I’m sorry for anyone going through it!

[Libby2563]

@Lord Helpus

Vet is very backed up and the biopsy will take a while. I am taking Goobs to his clinic on Thursday. So results mid next week. In the meantime, he is having a wonderful time running around in his (and Petey’s) 4 acre field.

Any update? It sounds like the expected turnover was less than a week from biopsy to results–that’s not bad.

[Smiles]

Stacie my gelding is now 11 and so this was several years ago that I did some research into it. My horse came from a breeder and I know they didn’t use welcome s again. So I was hesitant to put all the blame on the stallion, but when I came a cross a few other youngsters with the same problem all signs pointed to the sire since all the horses were out of different mares. Its a shame too. My guy moves so beautifully out in the pasture, but he can’t be ridden because he becomes instantly lame.

[Stacie]

@Smiles

Stacie my gelding is now 11 and so this was several years ago that I did some research into it. My horse came from a breeder and I know they didn’t use welcome s again. So I was hesitant to put all the blame on the stallion, but when I came a cross a few other youngsters with the same problem all signs pointed to the sire since all the horses were out of different mares. Its a shame too. My guy moves so beautifully out in the pasture, but he can’t be ridden because he becomes instantly lame.

I’m wondering which side of Welcome’s pedigree has the problem. Several W stallions go back to World Cup I

[RedmondDressage]

@Stacie

I’m wondering which side of Welcome’s pedigree has the problem. Several W stallions go back to World Cup I

I wonder the same. I own a World Cup I gelding who is almost 25 and has never had a single issue in the 10-ish years I’ve had him, none reported prior to that either. He competed at PSG until he was 21 and is still physically fine for riding. I know quite a few other W lines who are by stallions that were sired by World Cup I and none that I’ve encountered have issues. Most of these horses are in their teens or 20’s now and still working.

[keysfins]

@Lord Helpus

Vet is very backed up and the biopsy will take a while. I am taking Goobs to his clinic on Thursday. So results mid next week. In the meantime, he is having a wonderful time running around in his (and Petey’s) 4 acre field.

Any updates or results in yet? Glad that Goobs is happy to be romping.

[halt]

@RedmondDressage

I wonder the same. I own a World Cup I gelding who is almost 25 and has never had a single issue in the 10-ish years I’ve had him, none reported prior to that either. He competed at PSG until he was 21 and is still physically fine for riding. I know quite a few other W lines who are by stallions that were sired by World Cup I and none that I’ve encountered have issues. Most of these horses are in their teens or 20’s now and still working.

my personal line of thinking is that this is a recessive, multi-gene disorder - as in i don’t think just one thing is responsible for DSLD appearing.

you can’t go to a breeding yard without finding world cup i somewhere, especially because of weltmeyer. however, just because it appears it is quite complex in how it is inherited, doesn’t mean i think people should be breeding a horse that has parents that displayed, or it itself displays, DSLD.

[Angela_Freda]

@Stacie

That’s interesting. The colt that I described earlier was a Welcome S son. He had no stability between the 2nd and 3rd vertebra which is how his spine was damaged. Wobblers. We thought his dropping fetlocks were due to lack of nerve stimulation, but maybe that was not the case. I have his full sister. She is 10 and has no issues except needing to be barefoot to keep her heels back. Seriously, I had some of the best $$$ farriers work on her and only barefoot works. She’s beautiful. 16.3h and floats. I’ll never breed her because of those feet though.
I don’t think Welcome S was bred very much. That’s a lot of dsld foals for a lightly used stallion. I wonder which side it came from. Welcome was by World Cup I out of a g line mare.

Did his fetlocks drop after the spine damage?

My Yo had DSLD/ESPA, his fetlocks dropped at 23 after he went through a stressful situation and ulcer’d and the ulcers were not diagnosed quickly. He was dropping weight like crazy, painful, not eating… and then the fetlocks dropped.

It has been my theory that the DSLD/ESPA is, in some cases, a latent condition that will not express until the animal is stressed [either literally or physiologically] and then the DSLD/ESPA expresses.

[Really]

I have a 3 year old with DLSD, by an “S” Stallion out of a Weltmeyer mare (who does not show any signs of the disease and competed to PSG). I bought my guy in-utero and he was born with with lax tendons (and an umbilical hernia, not sure if the hernia is related to the DLSD or not). Waited until he was 3.5, pasterns were still almost horizontal, very straight hind leg. Full work-up by the vets and testing confirmed my worst fears. He is scheduled to be put down this month as are my hopes and dreams for him. He is a super mover, floats like a balloon but there is much instability in his pasterns due to the DLSD (you can see it on video, not so apparent with the bare eye) Neither parent “shows” the condition. From what I was told (and knowing a fair bit about genetics) it’s a recessive trait and likely when two copies are passed down you end up with my guy, one copy likely results in the condition presenting itself later in life. Vets were very surprised at seeing his issue so early in life. I am heartbroken as he is so sweet but it will only get worse.

[keysfins]

@Really , I’m so sorry you are facing this, what a heartbreak.

I do think it is helpful to have an open discussion about this condition.

[Stacie]

@Really I’m so sorry you’re going through that. I still get teary when I think about my boy.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Megaladon

What are these other lines that you are watching? (Just curious as an Andy owner myself) Sounds like such a devastating disease, I’m sorry for anyone going through it!

Devo Ram II (by Educado X)

I also know that line passes down self mutilation (which is supposedly genetically inherited from the sire line).

[Nevada10]

This thread would be much more useful if people would use actual names instead of “popular young stallion who starts with F.” If its a well documented, reoccuring problem, why protect the stallion/stallion owner? We need to produce healthier horses, not save face.

[Justice]

I am so sorry to hear this. A great resource is The breed registry, this issue was specically discussed at an Oldenburg Verband inspection I attended a couple of years ago, but I can’t remember the stallion discussed.

[halt]

@Really

I have a 3 year old with DLSD, by an “S” Stallion out of a Weltmeyer mare (who does not show any signs of the disease and competed to PSG). I bought my guy in-utero and he was born with with lax tendons (and an umbilical hernia, not sure if the hernia is related to the DLSD or not). Waited until he was 3.5, pasterns were still almost horizontal, very straight hind leg. Full work-up by the vets and testing confirmed my worst fears. He is scheduled to be put down this month as are my hopes and dreams for him. He is a super mover, floats like a balloon but there is much instability in his pasterns due to the DLSD (you can see it on video, not so apparent with the bare eye) Neither parent “shows” the condition. From what I was told (and knowing a fair bit about genetics) it’s a recessive trait and likely when two copies are passed down you end up with my guy, one copy likely results in the condition presenting itself later in life. Vets were very surprised at seeing his issue so early in life. I am heartbroken as he is so sweet but it will only get worse.

I am so sorry. Major hugs to you and your poor horse. :’(

Do you mind sharing which stallion?

This is now the third or fourth owner testament on this page & the other page about DSLD that has had a horse from W-line that has had DSLD. Is it because W-line is so bepopulate, or does it point to an issue within the W-line itself?

I agree with the vets’ line of thinking that this is a recessive disease and which copy the horse inherits seems to dictate how early and/or when the disease becomes physically evident.

[halt]

@Nevada10

This thread would be much more useful if people would use actual names instead of “popular young stallion who starts with F.” If its a well documented, reoccuring problem, why protect the stallion/stallion owner? We need to produce healthier horses, not save face.

I believe it was stated up-thread, but the F-line stallion was Furstenball. A COTHer had a post about her Furstenball gelding who demonstrated quite advanced EPSA/DSLD and was, IIRC, 3 or 4. I don’t believe she disclosed who the dam was.

[Really]

My guy was by Schwarzenegger. I contacted the main researcher at U of GA to see if she would be interested in tissue samples of my guy (Dr. Jaroslava Halper) but apparently she is limiting her research to Paso Fino’s at the moment. She knows of the link in warmbloods but for research purposes the Paso’s apparently have “more” in their bloodlines and since they are a small studbook are somewhat easier to trace. Interesting since both breeds are bred for gaits, different gaits for sure but still. Hoping her research bears fruit in the form of a genetic test.

Also, not trying to bring down one stallion or “line” of course there will be instances of horses carrying these genetics that don’t show any problems, that is the the roll of the dice you play with genetics. An issue may lay dormant or only be passed in every 1/100 breedings, doesn’t knock “your guy who has competed to GP” and has a link to theses stallions, just saying they likely carry the RISK for it in their makeup somewhere. Where, we don’t know yet. YMMV.

[alexandra]

What is DSLD ?