What you are looking for is exactly what Schiller Warwick now teaches -helping the horse learn how to control it’s own emotions, and bring itself down before it gets overwhelmed.
I suggest signing up for a free week of his video library and see if you think his approach would work for you.
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Hmm, I hereby retract my post above. This is a human problem. Was there a staff change in January or any other disruption to normal routine? If they were ok for a couple/three months after the fire, then that’s not the cause of the lunacy.
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Exactly what @Arelle said. This is totally a person problem, repeatedly teaching these young horses they can do what they want. These are NOT experienced handlers if they can’t get one horse at a time, out of four, through a gate. And the foot-planting you say is a problem with you and your guy indicates the same.
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Again, I am aware its a training issue. That’s why I am asking how to help get us through this, not why it’s happening. The staff of 3 work 55 horses a day. Only this herd has become a problem and very frankly it isn’t their job to train them out of it. Their job is to feed and muck. Its on us owners.
The trainer described it as my horse juggling two balls- a hole in training, and maybe anxiety- and then when a third element is added he can’t keep juggling and bolts. We as humans cannot control all the third elements out there (wind, fires, other horses running etc) so we have to fix the training holes so that the third element doesnt come into play at all. I am just trying to figure out how to work on this. Like self soothing the anxiety and working on the pressure thing (with high line etc). It does not happen every time or day.
Y’all can come try your experience handling .
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There’s probably many ways to solve this (specifically the herd of horses rushing out the gate when they see an opportunity), but all would take time, consistency, and likely some level of bravery by the handlers. When you have multiple people of varying experience levels you don’t get consistency or bravery. This group should probably be split up into a different turnout situation.
You should continue to work on your horse individually but it will not improve the turnout situation.
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There are several options to use:
Put a chain over your horse’s nose attached to a lunge line with gloves.
Lead him in a rope halter instead of a flat nylon or leather halter.
Put a lunging caveson on and clip your lead to the nose.
Halt him and back him up 10-15 steps any time he tries to get heavy. If he does manage to start to bolt, you need to have a way to get his head turned and I’d lunge the snot out of him. If he’s got enough energy to try to bolt, he’s got enough energy to vigorously trot around me for 5-10 minutes until we’re ready to walk further.
Again though - you need to handle this with TWO PEOPLE. Your horse bolting while being led is one problem, the horses not respecting people and personal space in the gate is a second problem. You cannot manage both at the same time.
What has the trainer you mentioned said about this? Why are they not helping?
There are a ton of videos on YouTube that you can watch and apply what’s needed:
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I think OP has a handle on her horse and has reached out to a trainer. This will only go so far with the herd dynamics and other handlers though.
If I owned that place I’d break up this little group and disperse them in other pens. If I worked there I wouldn’t go out without a lunge whip and a strong presence to protect my space.
If I could wave a wand, I’d have all owners and handlers set aside a day with a trainer to go out there and dissolve all this misbehavior. Owners have much more work to do to make it reasonable to the handlers which rightly should not have to deal with this.
This is groundwork issues and it’s very muddied by having different owners and handlers. To me, owners need to invest in some fixit training and getting a handle on their horses. I think that would be so much easier if this little gang of trouble makers are broken up. I’m surprised the handlers don’t go out with a lunge whip though… that’s the first thing I’d do.
I also think “getting to” come in for grain is ramping up the issue. I’d be out there with a whip filling out 4 pans and they can stay where they are.
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There are many roads to Rome but boy is this a great suggestion for a first step.
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Thank you so much. This is very much where we are at. I sent a follow up text to the trainer this afternoon and he finally got back to me! We are going to set up 1 more lesson at our farm and then I’ll ship my gelding to him to further build on his ground work and to work on the high line.
In the meantime the barn manager is back from vacation today and is shaking up this rowdy group this week to split them up which is what I was hoping for above
“My only other solution is to break up this band of 4 idiots and get my guy out with a more stoic bunch“
I will update after my lessons!
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This is wonderful news! Reign of terror (so to speak) is about to end, just in time b/c spring is coming!
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Change that double-swing gate to swing only to the inside. It is much easier to deal with trying to get a single nutjob out when the gate helps than when it hinders.
For what you can do - get out to the barn every day and use a chain shank or proper longeing cavesson (not the nice soft padded kind, the kind that means business and will stop a freight train) and teach your horse to lead properly including stop, halt, move hind quarters over, ‘wait at halt half an hour’ at halt if that’s what you’re told to do, and come through openings part way then stop and back up.
From the halt make sure that your horse thinks about the first few steps (takes them slowly, waiting to make sure you’re not going to change your mind) whether those steps are forward or backwards.
Once you think your horse has mastered all that, do it again and again and again in every part of the farm, all hours of the day. Hire friends to create distractions. Do it with stall doors and gates. In the middle of nowhere. On the laneway. In exciting places and boring places. Basically train the horse to be a good citizen.
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Sounds like breaking these idiots up is the solution, but I’d get those other horses BACK off the gate if they want to be idiots. Lunge whip, snow balls, buckets - whatever it takes to get them a GOOD distance off the gate. If they come flying back up, I’d pause with the horse in hand and go back to whipping snowballs until they move away from the gate.
This sounds like a pretty classic gate crowding issue, which is definitely a people problem, and a consistency problem. The bonus is the horse in hand learns that when he’s on the rope and not acting like a moron that you, the human, have control of the space around him and he’s not to fret about the snowballs or bucket or lunge whip.
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Trainer working with OP and her horse will help but there are other horses, other owners and other random handlers. It is a classic boarding barn problem…you know what is wrong but can only deal with symptoms, not fix the cause even with your own horse…who is also handled by others. Everybody has to be on the same page and follow through with the same actions every time the horse is handled… if it does not happen, problem continues.
Unfortunately, theres no real solution unless everybody is willing to participate.
Somebody mentioned upthread moving or changing the gate and/or how it opens? That would be up to the barn owner/manager. Modifying barn property needs their blessing.
Need to mention this is the worst time of year for misbehavior and assorted antics. Warmer weather is just ahead.
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I assumed that the OP would talk to (and convince) the BO that changing the way the gate opens would help the situation, not just go ahead and do it.
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I thought about the gate too, figured it could work really well or they would bonk off of it and then the post would need to be replaced.
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Based on decades in boarding barns, that is highly unlikely. Particularly if there is even minimal cost or any labor at all required. That’s not even taking BO /BM ego and the “But we have done that way for years” theory of barn and horse management into consideration.
Oh, she can ask. If it’s just moving a chain, maybe. Anything with aging gates morphs into needing two people, replacing hinges, latches and probably at least straightening or resetting posts. End up blowing half a day on it.
IMO, that gate is not the problem anyway.
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Actually it looks like it could be a one-person job because it’s a fairly small gate - not a fun job - change hinges to other side to prevent the horses crowding the corner issue and add onto former hinge side so gate cannot open outwards. If OP is handy or is willing to enlist handy friend/s or contractor best would be to say, “Hey, BO, I’m willing to do this to help the gate situation AS WELL AS working with my horse to improve behaviour. Would you be ok with this? I will provide labour and supplies.” Supplies would be truly be minimal - a length of thick board to attach to the opening side post and fasteners to attach it.
The gate swings both ways which does not help with being able to remove one horse at a time. Additionally it’s hinged on the wrong side which puts a crowd in the corner instead of in more open space. These observations come from 40+ years of horse and 15 years of cattle handling. Most people don’t think about how gates can impact ease of handling - same as water location (more for cattle as they resource hoard and crowd more than horses) can impact herd dynamics and therefore overall herd health.
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If OP is physically able, has friends also physically able and willing to spend the time on it? Has tools or access to them or can bring a contractor onto the property? Maybe she can take over moving and/or rehanging the gate.
Boarding barns I have been in since 1970 have not had any boarders who could or would do this on their own time at their own expense. I’m sure there must be some, maybe OP is one of them. Maybe she can ask her Father to step in,
I’ve been at a few barns who were totally ok with this. The ol’ “I don’t have to pay for this? SWEET! DO IT!” But I’m also the sort of person who sees a problem and if I can fix it I’ll do it (with permission) whether it’s my beaver, er, horse, eating wood or someone else screwing up the plumbing/plumbing wearing out, etc. I’ve generally found that BOs are quite happy to pay for parts even if it’s for something they would have let slide because they felt it wasn’t that important.
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My gates swing both ways. I still expect my horses to wait patiently away from the gate until it is their turn to be haltered and led through the gate. I have a good 20’ bubble and if they come in it the wrath of god comes down upon them. Took 2 sessions with a lunge whip and treats.
A humans space should never be encroached on by a horse.
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