Edited Title: Horse NQR and Finally GOT Vet Involved: Update & Possible New Plan

[RhythmNCruise]

The vet has come and gone! Hooray!

No laminitis. X-rays of feet just show thin soles. The vet and my farrier work together very closely, and the vet says to keep him in the boots for a few more cycles to see if that helps him build sole. My farrier did mention one of the last times I spoke to her that she could put a different packing in besides Magic Cushion that is much softer and forgiving. Though honestly, he’s hardly showing any lameness up front at all now. We turned him tightly out in the gravel and lunged him in the harder packed round pen and on the grass. His hind end lameness was more pronounced, though every once in a while he’d head bob (or something…it’s really weird). She said he’d take one step that looked like his head would go up in the bob, but then he’d hit another stride at another part of the circle where his head would duck down.

He flexed positive for both hocks and stifles…3/5 on left and 4/5 on right.

We’re going with a course of Adequan first to see if that alleviates his issues. If it doesn’t, we’ll inject hocks and stifles. I’m hoping the Adequan does the job for him.

She did say that the equicore/bands that I had started using could have forced the issue and made it present itself due to him working more from the hind end.

So, that’s where we are. She did say if the Adequan doesn’t work we might also pull blood and look to see if there is something systemic going on, but given his very obvious reaction during the flex test, she felt sure the Adequan was a good starting place.

I’m just glad his front feet look good (minus the thin soles). His palmar angle on his left front is dropped more than his right, but she didn’t seem concerned and she said I had the best farrier for any issues there. She has sent the x-rays to my farrier as well.

So, yeah. I’m pretty happy. I’m just going to continue moseying around on him bareback at the walk until the Adequan comes in and then we’ll see where we’re at. Hopefully, he’ll be feeling spiffy in a month or so!

[equinelibrium]

Glad to hear there is no laminitis! You must be so relieved to have some answers.

[Lunabear1988]

I’m glad that you were finally able to get some answers!! I hope you can get your guy feeling better.

[Pico_Banana]

Yay to no laminitis! Sounds like you guys have a good plan. You are super lucky to have such a great team.

[Paint_Party]

Just wanted to add that I’m really glad there’s no sign of laminitis. Thin soles can be a pain in the patootie to work with, but with great farrier care and picking and choosing where you ride it’s usually a condition you can manage. Hoping the Adequan helps with the hock and stifle issues, too. You’re a good Horse Mom for pursuing answers!

[S1969]

@RhythmNCruise

No laminitis. X-rays of feet just show thin soles. The vet and my farrier work together very closely, and the vet says to keep him in the boots for a few more cycles to see if that helps him build sole.

Well, that is good news.

I’m not really sure that keeping the horse in boots for a couple cycles will result in a real change in sole depth. It certainly might change it temporarily, until the horse is walking on the ground again and experiencing wear. Was there discussion about the trim/change in trim? That can result in a change in sole depth.

I guess my concern is that the lameness increased when the boots were put on, which sounds like it must have been sole pressure. So, while that seems to have dissipated somewhat, if there was no other cause, the boots may not be helping as much as they were/are hurting.

Some horses just never build sole. They are the ones we keep in shoes even when retired (raises hand…I have a 27 y/o TB in my backyard with shoes all year…)

[RhythmNCruise]

My farrier has had a lot of success with this protocol for helping horses build more sole. One of the other boarders at the barn actually experienced it with a former horse of hers whose sole was about the depth Milton’s is now and doubled after being in the boots for three cycles. My vet also recommends it and has seen it work. My farrier is a specialist in corrective and rehabilitative hoof care for twenty years and teaches classes and clinics to others about the use of these boots. The boots that Milton wears are recommended by Easy Boot for a 6-week trim cycle (Milton is on a 5-week cycle). I may have linked the wrong product up thread that made folks assume it wasn’t meant for long-term use? I don’t know. What I read definitely said they could be used long-term. I’ll try to find that link again and share.

He walks sound on gravel, turns sound on gravel, and seems comfortable overall up front now. We’re going to try softer packing material next time (the dental stuff) to see if that helps him not be so ouchy from the start. I don’t know if the boots will help him build sole or not, but we’re going to give it a try. After that, he’ll either get regular glue-ons or he’ll go back to barefoot and I’ll purchase some removable boots for riding if he’s still too thin-soled to hold up to the arena footing, etc.

[RhythmNCruise]

Here’s the link and information that supports using the boots long-term.

https://www.hoofrehab.com/GloveMod.html

Trim Cycle

By nature, Easyboot Gloves are probably more sensitive to a tight trim cycle than other models. This works to some horses’ advantage because boots have been used by many owners as a tool to allow neglect.

The boots should be fitted to a freshly trimmed foot. There is generally enough stretch in the Glove shells to accommodate a six-week trim cycle if there is minimal wall flaring on the hoof. But for horses with significant wall flares, the foot gets much larger in circumference during the trim cycle. By six weeks, you usually will not be able to get the Glove on. These horses will need a shorter trim cycle until most of the flaring is successfully grown out – but again, this is a good idea, anyway. It is worth noting, though, that the bulkier types of boots with buckles and overlapping layers of materials will be more accommodating to long trim cycles on flared hooves. The Gloves aren’t for everyone.

[S1969]

It’s clear that your farrier has an agenda they want to follow that doesn’t include nailing on shoes. If the only thing that your horse needs is hoof protection because of thin soles, most farriers would just put shoes on him.

Going back to the very first post - he struggles in deep footing, he struggles with hard packed footing. Worked him more with equibands, he was sore. Put boots on - he went lame. Lots of people said the problem sounds like sole pressure.

So, I’d be looking to take the pressure off his soles and still give him support. The only reason not to nail shoes on this horse is because the farrier doesn’t nail on shoes.

[lenapesadie]

My horse has thin soles. He went a lot better in boots and I was happy. Farrier quit. Got new farrier. Shod horse up front and he went even better in steel shoes. Gallop across gravel better. YMMV

[Sdel]

@lenapesadie

My horse has thin soles. He went a lot better in boots and I was happy. Farrier quit. Got new farrier. Shod horse up front and he went even better in steel shoes. Gallop across gravel better. YMMV

Agreed. Mine has struggled with thin soles too and I’m on hard clay. She was so sore she couldn’t tolerate a rider at all. Tried boots, happier and would tolerate a rider but kept breaking boots. Tried plastic shoes. Her sole growth has been amazing and she now tolerates jumping.

[IPEsq]

Before everyone keeps jumping on this farrier, first, if horse gets significant flaring, he will need a shorter cycle whether in boots or shoes. Second, 3/5 and 4/5 flexions = LAME behind. 5/5 is not weight bearing. Being shuffly at the trot can certainly come from the hind end. If he’s trying to unload his hind end into feet with thin soles, he will be sore all over. Addressing the very obvious lameness behind can only help the front end.

The “barefoot” farrier that comes to my barn uses Equipak under easy shoes for rehab cases. If the horse can tolerate the sole pressure of any pour in type material (and if Magic Cushion or something else was used as packing it could have hardened and can be no better), Equipak can certainly help improve sole depth after a few cycles.

[S1969]

@IPEsq

Before everyone keeps jumping on this farrier, first, if horse gets significant flaring, he will need a shorter cycle whether in boots or shoes.

I agree that a shorter trim cycle might be best, regardless of the cause. My issue is that the boots made the horse worse.

The fact that the horse is still NQR may be because of the hind end, but I’d at least take the boots off to make sure they are not continuing to make things worse. The fact that he is better (aka not as lame) doesn’t mean he’s not still uncomfortable because of excess sole pressure - what choice does he have but to adjust to them?

[RhythmNCruise]

Just for the record, he’s not worse with the boots than he was the previous time he was trimmed without the boots. He was pretty lame then too. He’s recovered from the trimming in about the same amount of time with the boots as he did without the boots, maybe faster, actually. And now he can go across various terrains and footing without being tender. No, at first he wasn’t that way, but he seems plenty fine now.

His hocks/stifles were already hurting before getting the boots. He had just “gone flat” when riding about a week before he got trimmed and the boots put on. So there he was, sore from the trim and probably the sole pressure from the packing and boots, plus also still sore behind. Poor guy.

In hindsight, I guess maybe I should’ve contacted my farrier earlier (she actually told me this herself) and gotten her to pull the boots just to be sure. But because he was doing better and better with his front feet each day, I figured improvement was a good sign. And the vet says the boots will do him good, so I’m glad I left them on.

I lunged him very very lightly today (like…3 minutes tops…almost all at the walk) just to see him move. He had no head bob at all. At one point, a truck and trailer were rolling past (we had a show at the barn today) and he took off, leaped into the air, struck out with a front leg and came down trotting beautifully for a few strides. Then the excitement was over and he was back to normal (slow, off behind). No head bob at all today, even for the very short amount of time (usually he starts out horrible and gets better). The walk, as usual, looks great. It’s so strange, he’s been tracking up and ever over tracking at the walk better than ever lately.

I don’t want to lunge him if his hocks are hurting, so I just plan to do it every now and then to check and see. Plan to keep riding at the walk and/or hand-walking him (I could use the exercise myself!) to keep him moving and semi-fit. He’s outside most of the time too, so that’s good. I have noticed he’s not as prone to lying down, rolling, etc. since this all started. I’m guessing it hurts a bit to get back up.

Thank you for everyone’s continued input.

[SuzieQNutter]

If we asked you to run in a circle bringing your knees up to your shoulders, how long would you last before being sore?

That would be muscular pain. That is what the equibands have done. Riding back to front after riding front to back needs to be done slowly and you stop asking once the horse is tired otherwise they will compromise using the wrong muscles.

[beowulf]

Is this horse supposed to live in these boots 24/7, for the next six weeks?

I am another that would “fix” this by tacking a shoe and a rim pad on this horse. I think boots have their purpose, but I don’t like them on a horse 24/7.

The problem with building sole is that constant movement and interaction with the substrate naturally shears it down. A barefoot horse will have a hard time building up sole without the external aid of a shoe or in some cases, a boot. So the options are to prevent movement (which isn’t ideal anyway, especially in a horse with sore hocks) or take therapeutic measures which usually includes putting on a shoe and raising the sole from interacting with the ground.

Generally, if a horse develops thin soles over the course of its ownership I suspect the trim job. It sort of sounds like this farrier isn’t doing much to help the horse. Do you have photos of the hoof, OP? Are the toes long or heels underrun – does the farrier ever trim off the sole, sole callous, or bars?

And yes, 3/5 flexions behind are pretty significant. This horse sounds like he is in a lot of pain. Hopefully some of it dissolves as the feet are fixed.

It’s good to keep track of how often they lie down or if they are ever dirty or look like they’ve rolled in mud. In my experience a constantly clean horse is typically not a good sign.

[RhythmNCruise]

This Friday will make 3 weeks that the horse has been in the glue-on boots. He’s on a 5-week schedule, so when the farrier is back out in a couple of weeks we’ll re-evaluate whether he needs the boots again (this time with softer packing) or if we’ll just try in in regular glue-ons.

I know some here don’t agree with the booting, but this farrier is well-respected and has been doing rehabilitative trimming and shoeing (glue-on only) for 20 years. She teaches clinics on how to do this stuff. I know that doesn’t mean much coming from a stranger on the internet, but what else can I say? The horse’s issues started prior to the boots. They didn’t cause what is going on with him and what I feel when riding him. His hocks/stifles are the issue there. He’s been barefoot his entire 13 years and the lameness under saddle started while he was in the last week of his trim cycle. It wasn’t his feet. If anything, he felt like he was heavier on his feet than ever, probably because of his hind end lameness.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback about his feet, but I assure you that my vet and farrier are both top-notch and are working together to help my horse. He’s happy right now as long as he’s walking. He doesn’t even mind jogging a little, but we’re going to leave that alone until he gets some Adequan going. He’s in 24/7 turn-out right now because the weather has finally cooled off, and when I was grooming it looked to me like he’d been laying down today (he’s in a clean, dry, grassy pasture, so it’s hard to tell sometimes). I witnessed him rolling a few days ago, and he had no issues getting up then. I’m only there an hour or so a day, so it’s hard for me to know how much he’s laying down. He seems happy and alert, so I assume he’s getting enough rest.

I have pictures of his x-rays and pictures of his feet with the boots on them, but I have to remember how to post them. Give me a second and I’ll try.

[RhythmNCruise]

Here are his x-rays:

And here are his boots the day they were put on (October 1).

And this is the only picture I can find of his feet without boots (zoomed in, sorry if the quality isn’t great)…

I hope that helps.

[phantomhorse]

Is Daisy the one doing his feet? I see you are in PA…

[RhythmNCruise]

No, I’m in NC.
Where does it say I’m in PA? (just wondering if I need to fix something, lol)

ETA: Oh, on the x-rays…the name of the vet practice. I’m not sure what the PA stands for, but it isn’t Pennsylvania. We’re in eastern NC.