EHV at Thermal?

[trubandloki]

@DawgLady

You are saying that the owners of these horses, despite being at the AA-show level, don’t know the first thing about this very high-profile disease and the protocols, all of which can be found via Google?

It does not take being in the hunter world to have no real clue on basic horse care things, let alone a disease that is high profile now, but not something people talk about all the time.
Also, some people start their showing at the AA level, because that is where their trainer shows. Showing at the AA level does not mean a rider has some level of horse experience.

I know it is hard for people who hang out here to understand but there are lots and lots of horse people in the world who do not read horse forums or much social media. Though the people at your barn might be talking about this, unless they (general) are told to learn about this disease they might truly have no clue about it, or what it is all about.

Stupid example, but I know a long time horse owner, never in the hunter world so you can’t blame that, who does not understand the whole laminitis thing. (I realize it is a totally different topic, just making a point.)

Not making any excuse for the trainers! They should know.

[MHM]

Thanks.

[Bristol_Bay]

The quarantine stalls were behind the polo barn, backing up to the freeway. But using the show stalls works, too, and there’s a place to ride.

[hoopoe]

I predict the USEF is going to have to put a lot more rules in place beyond what little is written in the show management and disaster preparedness section. There is no language about local authorities and state regulators. there is no language of consequence or responsibility except the long standing rule about checking out with the show secretary. I suspect that rule was always intended to be one of money collection and bill settlement rather than biocontainment

[drsmcc]

I do believe that all of the COVID regulations backlash against health officials nationwide, denial of science, bizarre responses to vaccine acceptance, etc. set this situation to be much uglier than it would have been 3 years ago.

[Scribbler]

@trubandloki

@DawgLady

You are saying that the owners of these horses, despite being at the AA-show level, don’t know the first thing about this very high-profile disease and the protocols, all of which can be found via Google?

It does not take being in the hunter world to have no real clue on basic horse care things, let alone a disease that is high profile now, but not something people talk about all the time.
Also, some people start their showing at the AA level, because that is where their trainer shows. Showing at the AA level does not mean a rider has some level of horse experience.

I know it is hard for people who hang out here to understand but there are lots and lots of horse people in the world who do not read horse forums or much social media. Though the people at your barn might be talking about this, unless they (general) are told to learn about this disease they might truly have no clue about it, or what it is all about.

Stupid example, but I know a long time horse owner, never in the hunter world so you can’t blame that, who does not understand the whole laminitis thing. (I realize it is a totally different topic, just making a point.)

Not making any excuse for the trainers! They should know.

IME most ammies have one horse at a time, maybe 2 or 3 if they have their own property. And if they keep those horses into old age, that means relatively few horses over the years. IME even long time owners who are decent riders often only know anything about the ailments their horses have had. And the first bout of abscess laminitis Cushings colic cellulitus heaves suspensory tears etc totally takes them by surprise, they are slow getting it diagnosed and then a big learning curve to fix it. And after they will remember more or less the cure but not know more widely.

People can even be like this about their own illnesses. They may not have enough knowledge base to put it in any real context.

The first words about the EHV outbreak were “non neuro form” which I myself would interpret to be a statement about the virus not the presentation. After reading the UCDavis material I see that EHV can present in different ways which I absolutely did not know and that saying non neuro means nothing, it’s the same virus.

[Kmsuds]

not sure I see how that would be? horses sick, horses dying,shows cancelled, people losing wages,I think that is a perfect storm for ugly all by itself

[Demerara_Stables]

For the record, I think it’s extremely selfish and reckless to move horses around during an outbreak, ESPECIALLY if your horses were at the facility that was ground zero for the outbreak.

That said, I keep thinking back to Karl Cook’s walking and talking from last week, and thinking about his comment that we as a community need to not view success at the show as proof of good horsemanship. A lot of people are shocked and appalled that a trainer would put hundreds of other horses at risk just to chase ribbons. Blame has been thrown at trainers, riders, and owners.

But, I think the systemic issue here is that without results at horse shows, trainers don’t have clients, and they don’t make money. That’s a problem. Additionally, trainers make a LOT of money by taking clients to shows. Does that excuse this behavior? Absolutely not. But until you’ve lived paycheck to paycheck, and relied on those horse shows and good ribbons to put food on your table, you don’t know the pressure these trainers are under.

Personally, it is a daily battle with myself as to what I do to market my business, and how to get my name out there. I don’t show rated shows, and I don’t have a lot of horses that horse show, and it is HARD to get my name out there and build my reputation. But I make these choices because it’s the right thing for the horse. When I trained in Florida, I definitely took horses to shows that weren’t ready, just so I would be at the show and be seen. I’m not proud of that, but I’ve learned a lot and come a long way, and had to make peace with having a smaller business because I do things the right way, without shortcuts.

So what’s the solution? I think the solution is changing our mindset as owners, riders, and trainers to not accept shortcuts and realize that sometimes it isn’t a good choice to go to the show. Sometimes the horse needs another week, or month, or year, to learn and get stronger.

As clients, the we need to understand that ribbons aren’t the best way to judge a trainer. Yes, it’s more work, but we need to ask more questions of the trainers we’re working with as to WHY the horse is getting X medication or WHY we’re using X bit, or saddle, or boot, or whatever. We need to ask why the horse is or isn’t going to the show, and why she is jumping the height she is. And if the answer is anything other than “that’s what’s right for her,” then we need to consider if that’s the right trainer for us. We need to not be impressed by fancy coolers or trophies or press releases, we need to be impressed by happy, sound horses.

As trainers, we need to educate our clients. There will always be differences of opinion with clients, and THAT’S OK. We need to welcome questions from our clients and we need to be doing the right thing for the horse, so that if there’s a difference of opinion, it’s just that. We need to not be afraid to tell clients why we are doing or not doing something, and we need to know in our heart that it’s the right thing for the animal, not the right thing for our pocketbook.

It’s taken me a very long time to have enough confidence in my program that I’m not offended if someone leaves. I want my clients to be educated and ask questions. I can only hope that by talking about these things, more clients will start asking more questions and having honest conversations with their trainers. There shouldn’t be any secrets, and we should all be in it for the horse.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Where did you get that theory about Covid? We literally know 2 people that died at a cookout.
There were tons of superspreader outdoor events last year around spring break.
Not to mention… A ton of FL horse show people were sick this summer and winter… whether they were vaxxed or not. So please don’t propose that it “wasn’t that transmissible through casual outdoor contact” because that’s far from true.

[MHM]

@hoopoe

I predict the USEF is going to have to put a lot more rules in place beyond what little is written in the show management and disaster preparedness section.

I seem to recall that when the USEF horse shows started back up in June 2020 after a break for Covid, there were perfectly good new rules in place about wearing masks and maintaining social distance. However, since far too many people at horse shows could not be bothered to follow them, USEF had to make much more strict rules, and the horse shows had to hire a lot more people to enforce them.

I have a feeling the same thing might happen now with EHV if this thing does not get resolved in a hurry.

[vxf111]

They died at a cookout? Or were infected at a cookout and subsequently died. I can’t imagine someone being so sick they’re dying and attempting a cookout but the past 2 years have been steadily teaching me that people can be much stupider than I thought was possible.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Nope. Totally in fine health (older, but ok) and both were exposed at a church cookout, along with several others.

[vxf111]

Gotcha. The grammar made it sound like the DEATH occurred at the cookout, not the EXPOSURE.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Sorry… didn’t know this was the Verbal section of the SAT.

They passed away from being infected by attendees at a church cookout for the 4th of July and died less than a month after initial exposure. Due to many individuals also falling sick at that same bbq, it was easy to trace the origin.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@Tini_Sea_Soldier1

Where did you get that theory about Covid?

Lots of research has shown that Covid is far, far less likely to be transmitted through casual contact outdoors (such as passing people on a sidewalk) than indoors. Here’s one article; you will find dozens more if you search. https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2021/08/how-safe-outdoor-activities#:~:text=Outdoor%20transmission%20of%20the%20virus%20is%20rare.&text=It%20comes%20from%20a%20comprehensive,likely%20less%20than%20one%20percent.

What people missed (and you missed here) is that we are talking about casual, or fleeting, contact. People heard that it transmits less outdoors and took this as license to sit for an hour at crowded picnic tables, or stand talking to Uncle Joe 10 inches from each other’s faces for 45 minutes. If you do that, you can definitely still get Covid outdoors.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Yeah, tell that to my husband who dealt with many of those cases in a hospital setting. They said the same thing. Spoiler alert: The virus doesn’t care whether you’re inside or outside, it cares whether or not you opted to get vaccinated and how vulnerable your lung tissue is, that’s all that it really cares about… it’s not like it crosses a threshold of a doorway and goes, HUH… I guess I should stop spreading now. Cough away!
Is it safer to be outdoors than close quarters indoors? Of course. However, it didn’t prevent it from transmitting to other individuals and if you saw how it spread like wildfire through some of the barns around Florida over the summer and the fall, I think you’d disagree with your prior statement. So many sick people… some long haulers that have had it multiple times.

[Fiesta01]

@Scribbler

The owners are not in a position to question their trainer’s decisions, since the trainers control medical care, feeding, and transport.

These are the people I call “riders.” Definitely not horsemen/horsewomen in my book.

[trubandloki]

@Fiesta01

@Scribbler

The owners are not in a position to question their trainer’s decisions, since the trainers control medical care, feeding, and transport.

These are the people I call “riders.” Definitely not horsemen/horsewomen in my book.

Everyone has to start somewhere. No one was born knowing all there is to know about horses.

[Fiesta01]

Pre-internet days, I would agree with you. There is no excuse for a horse owner not to be interested or able to become educated.

[Scribbler]

It’s pretty hard to overrule a trainer in a full board situation especially in an emergency. And most of us ammies are not going to get to this level of competition without being in a pretty comprehensive full board and training situation where we give the trainer quite a bit of power. Certainly no junior is going to be able to gain say their trainer.

I don’t want to have horses in that world and could not afford it if I did want to but I recognize that’s the model for high end competition.