Eight Belles

[lep]

nameless faceless ones break down, too

I watched the Derby and cried when I saw Eight Belles down, too, but what about all the other TBs who break down in training and in non-televised races? I think that perhaps it’s a little naive for people to swear off watching racing because of another televised break down. Things like this happen all the time all over the country and there’s no uproar over those horses dying or being sent to auction due to lameness or whatever else happens to them. I find the racing industry to be a sad one. I pass several breeding farms on the way to my boarding barn, and I get a little sad inside every time I see all those babies outside. I just think how many of them will not have good fates. Yes, there are those good ones that get treated “well” and might get cushy retirements, but I think that’s a small amount when compared to how many are born every year.

On a different note, are there any statistics as to how many TBs die each year, either in training and/or during a race?

[HorseSoGreen]

When I was watching her in the post parade, I said to my husband, “There goes a breakdown waiting to happen.” I’ve never been so sorry to be right. When you compare her front legs to the colts in the race, she was just not up to this task. She was not well enough developed for this kind of race – hardly any bone in the front, underdeveloped stifles behind, not enough rump muscle, and not enough weight. If an armchair quarterback like me can see that the horse was not fit enough for this race, why didn’t her connections see it?

[Savoy_8]

Where’s the footage of the ESPN interview with her trainer? I didn’t get to see it…

Very sad! what a great filly… RIP Eight Belles… you beat 18 boys!

[DickHertz]

I would estimate the number of catastrophic breakdowns in all of North America to be about 300-400 per year - this is for horses that are put down on the racetrack. I read something in the bloodhorse a few months ago and their figures for major circuits were about 10-15 per year. I’m sure there are hundreds if not several thousand that come back so bad that they need put down.

Not sure about the training injuries, but I would guess the number would be equal or higher since more horses train in the morning than race in the afternoon.

One time at Penn National I watched a race in the kitchen. A horse named “Glowing True” (sp?) won a gut wrenching race. The horse got claimed by Ralph Riviezzo and he brought him back to the receiving barn and after a half lap around the barn, he couldn’t walk anymore and had to be put down (I think - I had to leave, but I know they were giving him banamine and if he couldn’t make it on the van, they were going to put him down). I’m sure there are many more instances like this.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=HorseSoGreen;3187415]
When I was watching her in the post parade, I said to my husband, “There goes a breakdown waiting to happen.” I’ve never been so sorry to be right. When you compare her front legs to the colts in the race, she was just not up to this task. She was not well enough developed for this kind of race – hardly any bone in the front, underdeveloped stifles behind, not enough rump muscle, and not enough weight. If an armchair quarterback like me can see that the horse was not fit enough for this race, why didn’t her connections see it?[/QUOTE]

I do think Larry Jones tends to drill his horses pretty good. In some ways, I think it’s good to drill horses in the morning so you know they can hold up to the rigors in the afternoon, but I do think Jones pushes his horses a little harder than maybe he should. Even though he had a hell of a year, I think Hard Spun was overtrained to some degree. Just my opinion - I’m not saying he “killed” Eight Belles.

[Platinum_Equestrian]

I was just sickened when they said a horse was down… then they said it was Eight Belles. I just couldn’t believe it. What a special filly to be lost with no good reason.

[AAHunterGal]

[QUOTE=HorseSoGreen;3187415]
When I was watching her in the post parade, I said to my husband, “There goes a breakdown waiting to happen.” I’ve never been so sorry to be right. When you compare her front legs to the colts in the race, she was just not up to this task. She was not well enough developed for this kind of race – hardly any bone in the front, underdeveloped stifles behind, not enough rump muscle, and not enough weight. If an armchair quarterback like me can see that the horse was not fit enough for this race, why didn’t her connections see it?[/QUOTE]

This is EXACTLY what I thought as well. I saw her go past and I said to my mom, “wow, she looks YOUNG.” I’m a H/J gal, know nothing really about racing, but even I could see that there was a huge difference between her body composition/muscle development and that of the other horses in the field.

I too had a bad feeling going into this race. Funny how that’s a common sentiment. I’m done watching horse racing. RIP Eight Belles, you ran your heart out and everyone is so proud of you.

[maxdog]

[QUOTE=dcm;3186650]

I just don’t understand how this happened. It’s not fair. :no: [/QUOTE]
Are you serious? Perhaps it has something to do with running on bones that aren’t fully formed? Just an idea:mad:

[horsegirl888]

Ohhhh my God. She was only three! This is such a sad day. I don’t know if I can watch this anymore. I cannot stand seeing these 2 and 3 year olds try their hearts out, and know that they are just tooooo young.

I was saying to my dad before the race, “You know, I wish they wouldn’t race them so young, they are too young to be doing this, their bones aren’t up to that kind of stress so early.” And now look what happens. Oh, it just makes me so sad. And I was cheering for Eight Belles so much… rest in peace. She ran a brilliant race.

[lep]

why do the hundreds of break downs get no publicity?

Right now in eventing, there is an uproar over a few recent accidents, and the NY Times has even done an article on it. Why are the deaths of a few event horses and the injuries/deaths of a few event riders (which are tragic of course) causing an outcry over the state of eventing, yet the deaths of racing TBs go basically unnoticed unless they happen in a nationally-televised race? I don’t know the statistics, but I assume that more jockeys/exercise riders are injured/killed every year than are event riders. I am not saying the eventing accidents aren’t terrible, but I don’t understand the focus on those in light of “blind eyes” being turned on racing accidents.

Note, I am not saying I am anti-racing, I just find it to be a sad industry, and I wish that so many TBs weren’t bred every year…

[maxdog]

Yes!

Lep…you got it! Horrible double standard. Some races there a 7 or more horses euthanized!

[Bluehorsesjp]

[QUOTE=ItchyRichie;3186821]
This past month I’ve just been thinking about this kind of stuff in general and honestly…
do horses like this? any of it? jumping, eventing, dressage, racing, showing, being ridden at all? do THEY LIKE THIS?!? is this all cruel? do we have the right to do whatever we want with these animals just because we can?

I’m starting to feel guilty every time I go to ride my horse and I don’t know how to justify it, I just do it because I like to. is this really okay?[/QUOTE]

Horses like it. I know my jumpers LOVE their jobs. They puff up when we start jumping. They both ALWAYS jump with ears pricked forward. They are happiest when working, my old jumper who is rehabbing from any injury hates his life right now. He is bored and wants to work. My horses pull me to the trailer when we are leaving for shows. You can’t tell me that they don’t like their jobs.
Think about horses who don’t like their jobs. A hunter I once knew who rushed his fences, stopped, wrung his tail. He was sold as a dressage horse and is fat and happy now. He does his job with joy and exuberance now.
I am sorry but you are just being melodramatic.
TB’s are bred to run, it is what they are hard wired to do. The same with a herding dog, or a retriever. They have to do what they were bred to do.

[eyesontheground]

Sweet little Belle…

Jingles for your people. The images I will have of you is the one coming down the stretch beating all those boys and from the trainers interview and him saying you where always ready to work and always had your ears up!

So Miss Belle…EARS UP!!

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=LMH;3186682]
How many deaths do there have to be before something changes?[/QUOTE]

Ditto

[2_tbs]

RIP beautiful filly!

What a tragic end to a great race.

From what I could tell in the video of her galloping out, it seems her stride changed. She was moving along free and easy then she was sorta rough and more animated. Then, suddenly, she took a stubmle (I presume the first ankle going), but she was still galloping so momentum carried her forward another stride where she had nothing on one front so the weight was all on the other which then went as well.

It appears she did try to get up but there was nothing for her to stand on so she was on her canon bones - that’s what the pic on the article Kenike posted showed anyway. Glad the guys were there lickity split to keep her down. If they hadn’t it would’ve been very remniscent of Go For Wand :no:

As far as how this particular incident reflects on the racing industry? This just happens. I heard Michael Matz had another break down just recently. He takes his time and knows what it takes to get a horse fit for competition (not that other trainers don’t, I just mean from his extensive show jumping experience). That just proves it happens-even though we don’t want it to. It’s that “thing” everyone hopes they never have to deal with.

Just like breeders hope all foals hit the ground alive, healthy, and thriving. Doesn’t always happen. Should we stop breeding all together because of the risk? Anything we do with horses is a risk to us and a risk to them. Do I think changes could/should be made? Sure I do. However, I can’t agree with those who say these horses aren’t ready to run.

At some levels, yes, the horses are not trained as well and are not treated as well but at this level, the top of the sport of kings, these horses are as ready as can be. Age, size, etc are a separate issue. This was the KY Derby. These horses had to earn the right to get there (or pay their way in). They certainly didn’t walk out off the training track for the first time to try their hooves at the Derby. They have run, they have proven themselves, they have been trained to the top of their game. The accident, all of the accidents really, are tragic. But in most cases they are just accidents.

My deepest condolences to the connections of Eight Belles. Truly a sad day.

[horsegirl888]

2tbs: I have to disagree because I do not believe that these horses are “as ready as can be.” I do not believe that a three year old thoroughbred is ready for the kind of stress that racing puts on their bodies. I don’t think they are ready to run, honestly. I don’t think any two or three year old should be asked for that much.

But I am not in the racing industry, I do hunter pleasure. So obviously I don’t do well with the “risk factor” end of things. Just my opinion, statistically racing is more dangerous than almost any other equine sport out there, so there is far more potential for “accidents” to happen.

But this isn’t really about discussing this, I am just so sad for Eight Belles, she looked like such a sweetheart and she really was trying her best, till the end. Again, rest in peace and she did a brilliant job today.

[lep]

7 a race??

Maxdog, I can’t even imagine losing 7 horses in a race. I have a friend who’s very connected to racing, and she always talks about seeing horses “snap one off” in training.
I wonder if the double standard is in part because break downs are an accepted, expected, part of racing within the industry.

[silver2]

Originally Posted by LMH
How many deaths do there have to be before something changes?

Honestly I think you have to look at this in perspective. Go over to the breeding board and see how many mares die doing nothing more than “what god intended”. I’d wager that if you tracked a group of broodmares and a group of high performance mares over the course of 20 years you’d see far, far more deaths in the broodie band.

Even the nicest performance barns I’ve been at (and they were nice!) have horses “break down” on a regular basis. A nice prospect blowing a suspensory at home is not as dramatic an event as a TB breaking down in a race but the end result for the horse is often the same.

Not to mention all the pleasure horses that are crippled or outright killed by poor riding, poor shoeing, poor footing or poor feed. The way people in my rural area keep, ride and discard of horses makes me bite my tongue a lot. I’d say 10% founder every spring and they ~all~ end up on the meat truck to Canada sooner or later.

I think I’d take my chances on the track if I were a horse. Of course I’d much prefer it were a turf track!

[lep]

working lame horses

I am NOT saying Eight Belles was lame, but I wanted to add that I watched some horses work early this week at Churchill, and I was appalled at how many visibly lame horses I saw going out to work. I mean, there were some head-bobbing lame ones out there working.

[DickHertz]

[QUOTE=silver2;3187532]
Honestly I think you have to look at this in perspective. Go over to the breeding board and see how many mares die doing nothing more than “what god intended”. I’d wager that if you tracked a group of broodmares and a group of high performance mares over the course of 20 years you’d see far, far more deaths in the broodie band.

Not to mention all the pleasure horses that are crippled or outright killed by poor riding, poor shoeing, poor footing or poor feed. The way people in my rural area keep, ride and discard of horses makes me bite my tongue a lot. I’d say 10% founder every spring and they ~all~ end up on the meat truck to Canada sooner or later.

I think I’d take my chances on the track if I were a horse.[/QUOTE]

Yeah…what about foxhunting. The one group that I know of in Ligonier, PA give their horses 10 cc’s of banamine before each hunt. The horses are cripples and they break down pretty often.