I’m sort of switching back to western. I don’t get the saddle fitting troubles, IME, a good saddle will fit most horses when it comes to western. I’m riding my Andalusian in DH’s roping saddle (20 year old Circle Y roping saddle). It has fit just fine on…various 15 hand QH’s. My friend’s Irish sport horse (ID x TB) who was being a bastard and DH had to get on him. Our two very different 16.1 TBs. My 15.2 Azteca. DH’s 16.1 Andalusian x TB. My 17 hand Shire that I used to trail ride. My friend’s 16 hand Clyde x Morgan. Her next horse, a 15.1 hand 3/4 Morgan 1/4 Percheron who is allegedly a nightmare to fit but put it on her and she said Ahhhhhh. And now my 16.2 hand Andalusian who likes it better than anything else I’ve ever put on him, so we’re thinking western dressage instead of regular dressage LOL! We’ve always used it fully rigged, mohair cinch and flank cinch done up so it actually does something, as they should be, with a 1" felt pad. It’s worked for us.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8707866]
One could title that thread, “Palm Beach says western is superior to english” and then copy /paste her quote. … and then duck and run for cover![/QUOTE]
I’m just heading for a tropical beach…
My mare goes in English or western just fine except we are still learning neck reining… She doesn’t seem to like dressage saddles at all though. I find western saddles are comfier going up and down steep banks and through uneven terrain. I have pushed cows in my jumping saddle but I much prefer the western. I feel more relaxed in a western saddle whereas I think subconsciously I have to sit “all proper” in my jumping saddle. I also like riding with less contact. But all in all, I just feel better in an english saddle as I like having less saddle. Also… getting jammed in the stomach with a saddle horn hurts!!
However I also ride a bit of polo where you neck rein but ride english style. Wee! Now that is the best of both worlds 
I don’t know if one discipline is superior to the other --but in all fairness, I think in general Western riders see their horses as more partners than projects. My horse and I do rein and hunt together --because we can --we don’t spend money on lessons or training because we (as a team) can’t (or won’t) improve much. I’m the best rider I want to be (I don’t fall off) and he’s the best horse he can be (does what I ask when I ask). I had another fox hunter tell me (in front of the horse, no less) that he’d never be a dependable jumping horse because he’d slide to a stop before every fence. Well, he’s been in first flight for eleven years, occasionally is (or I am) asked to lead the field --hasn’t stopped at a fence yet --even cleared a fallen horse and rider AND a jump at one point (ok, my bad, following too close). Does he do a sliding stop? Yep. And (more fun) when we reverse field he does a rollback. Try THAT on your 17.2 hh Thoroughbred!
I do think our ranchbred (mine is from ND) horses are heartier --mine wears no shoes --only time he was ever shod was when I rode him 250 miles across the state of MI because there were some pretty rocky trails. He wears no blanket (coat like a buffalo) and except for the time he pigged out on acorns, has never been sick. He eats very little, and always poops in the same place in his stall. What more can one ask for?
Foxglove
Dislikes:
-Receiving flack for wearing my helmet (I’m not an in-your-face helmet Nazi…I never tell others they should wear one. I simply don mine and ride, and yet people feel the need to come up to me and tell me that the judge won’t look at me or I’ll place so much better if I would wear a hat).
-Saddle is so heavy, and I have less of a “feel” through my legs and seat vs. my English saddles
-split reins…if you drop one (or both) accidentally, it’s a huge problem. English reins that are buckled together, not so much of a problem.
-Adjusting stirrup height can’t be done while on your horse and it takes a lot of effort on my saddle.
Challenges:
-Learing to ride a spur-trained horse. Squeezing my English horse with spurs gets forward motion. Squeezing my western horse with spurs gets a hard stop that launched me onto the horn the first time. :eek: My spur-trained horse has lots of buttons and you have to set the horse up, ask correctly, and usually continue to ask. Riding my western horse requires micro-management; my English horse is more like cruise control (interesting OP, as this seems to be the opposite of your experience)
Likes:
My western horse has the attitude and training that made me feel safe enough to get back into the saddle after tearing my ACL, MCL and meniscus, and the subsequent repair surgery.
I like not having to longe my horse before every ride, or when he’s been sitting for a while. My western horse is always the same, extremely predictable.
While he is lazy which can be frustrating, he has very comfortable, slow gaits that are easy to ride. I could drink wine while I ride his lope. Granted it does take me 3 minutes to circle the arena whereas my TB does it in 30 seconds… :lol:
I do ride my western horse both English and western. I took him to a dressage clinic and I’ve spent a lot of the past 2 years getting him to accept contact and use himself. He’s not a fan. He’s much happier shuffling along on a loose rein. Some of them really are bred for it I guess. I prefer English riding (I like to have a better feel of the horse under me than the western saddles allow, and I like riding on contact rather than a draped rein). I also prefer not to have to continuously re-cue and “micromanage” the ride, but that’s just how he is trained (western pleasure show horse). However, I admit that riding a horse who defaults to stop and has to be cued and re-cued every stride was a great safety feature for me after my injury, and being forced to ride with 95% legs and seat and 5% hands (or hand, I should say!) has helped me with my riding on my other horse. Like Palm Beach, western riding is harder for me as well.
Bumping this up to add another thing that I’m enjoying about my western lessons. Trainer brought one of his horses in training to my house over the weekend so he could train his horse while he was giving me a lesson, and it was good for my horses to have a new horse come in and pay attention to me, no Mr. Cutey-pants QH in the arena.
What I like about the western training that I’ve been exposed to is that the trainers aren’t afraid of not looking perfect. You see the “ugly” part of horse training and there aren’t excuses made about it or hiding it or LTD or drugging to pretend like the horse is perfect all the time. When I say ugly, mind you, I don’t mean beating a horse or anything like that. But I do mean discipline. And I also mean, well, ugly . . . in that it isn’t picture-perfect equitation or on-the-bit-ness or perfect circles or whatever. It is maybe thump-thump-thumping with the leg, or wide hands, or exaggerated lifting of the rein, or any other number of things that doesn’t look pretty, but is effective and is clear to the horse so that you can ultimately use lighter aids. I am seeing the actual training, and it is out there in the open and I am getting to see how someone does it and creates a soft, responsive, attentive horse.
Oh, and I rode Princess Fancy Pants in my western saddle and bridle and not only was she very good, but she was very cute!
OK, I’ll play.
Western tack is prettier. Fringe, conchos, bright colors, silver everything… Yes, please.
Western everything is cheaper. Fly spray, brushes, horses, bridles, etc. Even if it’s expensive (nice horse, fancy saddle), it’s not as expensive as the h/j/dressage equivalent.
Western horse shows have prize money!
In addition to being lightweight, English tack is easier to clean.
Jumping is no fun in Western tack.
Split reins-- WHY?!?
Horse shopping is always “buyer beware” and I’ve learned to parse the ads for English horses. Some of the same keywords should be avoided in any discipline, “experienced rider only” comes to mind! But if an English horse is advertised as “trail rides” or “hacks out” then it’s probably sensible. It’s a bit of a culture shock when Western riders advertise that the horse “trail rides great” as this can mean “doesn’t steer” or otherwise greenbroke in some way.
Originally posted by The Centaurian:
Split reins-- WHY?!?
So the horse will ground tie. https://horsesfortrail.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/jack-ground-tied/
And if you have looong split reins, you can flick the end at your horse’s rump instead of carrying a crop when you need a little stronger forward aid.
PP, glad you are getting some good training. No matter what the discipline, being very clear, consistent and simple about what you are asking the horse usually results in progress, and the Western peeps seem to have really embraced that. How often were you yelled at to get that heel down by your Western trainer? My bet is 0.
[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8724049]
And if you have looong split reins, you can flick the end at your horse’s rump instead of carrying a crop when you need a little stronger forward aid.
PP, glad you are getting some good training. No matter what the discipline, being very clear, consistent and simple about what you are asking the horse usually results in progress, and the Western peeps seem to have really embraced that. How often were you yelled at to get that heel down by your Western trainer? My bet is 0.[/QUOTE]
PB, you are right about that, I never thought about it! Yes, ZERO! Heels down was always something I struggled with because biomechanically, I’m not put together in a way that makes that easy for me. It isn’t stretching or not stretching, it isn’t flexible stirrups, it is that the anatomy of my bones only allows my heel to flex so far.
I still struggle with foot placement in the stirrups. It seems most people I watch have their foot more “home” and my stirrup is still on the ball of my foot.
Trainer and I were talking after Saturday’s lesson about women’s conformation versus men’s and how most people try to put women in a position as if they were a man (i.e. sitting on the pockets, or leg position), but it usually isn’t possible due to our hip structure. Gosh how I love this guy!
Western riders move around so much more in the saddle than English riders do. Watch any clinician on a horse and he/she is not shy about waving arms about, turning the entire body to look at something, etc.
They use very specific cues to get a horse to do something, and want the horse to kind of “ignore” everything else. Makes sense for a discipline that is rooted in ranch work, roping, etc. I’ve found that when I concentrate on really slowing down my cues and making them the same every time, I get a much softer and more responsive horse. Then I can answer my phone, open the gate, pet the cat that hopped up on the fence etc with my horse not thinking I’m telling it to do something.
Coming into this a little late I realize. But it’s relevant to my life right now…
took a 23 year hiatus from horse ownership to raise two kids on a tight budget. Now at 55yo, just adopted a rescue…9 yr old QH gleding. The rescue farm worked with him diligently for about nine months.
I grew up riding hunt seat but never had much formal training. It was just what we road in New England if we weren’t riding bareback. I decided to switch to a western saddle with my new horse. For one thing, he looks better in a western saddle 
But more importantly, after so many years off, and being in middle age, I kind of like the security of the saddle. I also like the comfort of it. I got a great deal on a Fabtron Cross Trail which is very comfortable and only weights about 22 pounds (maybe 24 with stirrups and cinch, etc). My challenges have been positioning the saddle on my horse…I know it sits a bit further back than an English saddle. And I board at a dressage barn, so I am only one of two western riders. The other is less experienced than I am! But I am figuring it all out. I plan to take some lessons with the barn owner who is fantastic. She doesn’t ride western, but my horse and I need some help with some basic principles right now. Once we get further along, we’ll take some western specific lessons.
I think another thing I like about riding western, is it makes me feel a little…I don’t know…wild…cowgirl-ish. I have always had that side to me and now I can fully express it!
Lastly, I would never ever state that riding western is easier than riding English.
I have heard people (English riding snobs, frankly) that western is easier because you “just sit there”. SO NOT TRUE! However, there is something a little more relaxed and relaxING about it. Kind of like the difference between driving a standard (English) and an automatic (western). You have to know how to drive no matter which transmission you have, the basic principles of driving either are the same, and you have to pay full attention either way. But the automatic is just a little less busy…if that makes sense.
Anyway, thanks for reading! Oh, and if any experienced western riders want to throw me some tips for training my horse to neck rein, I’ll take them. I won’t start it with him yet, but down the road a couple of months. Right now I am riding him with a Myler English Kimberwick, no curb chain, and a western headstall with thick rope reins. Hah! I am sure someone is offended, but that’s ok. It is working fine for us. We are a casual team, trail riding and easy going arena work. No shows, no competition. having a blast!
I really wanted to try a Fabtron Cross Trail - it looks so nice in the catalog. But it only comes in FQHB and I need semi-QH bars for my new horse.
I’ve noticed that attitude from hunt seat riders - and also an idea that we’re all barbarians who still worm their horses with plug tobacco. :lol: I guess it’s kind of like how non-riders think “the horse does all the work.” Uninformed opinions.
If, like me, you don’t have access to real good western instruction, think about buying the 7 Clinics DVD series. So worth it. :yes: I go back to them again and again.
Pretty on the eyes, but very few are actually interested in women…lol
User name may be “Man in Black” …I’m a girl. My forever baby was named Johnny Cash lol
[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;8725802]
I really wanted to try a Fabtron Cross Trail - it looks so nice in the catalog. But it only comes in FQHB and I need semi-QH bars for my new horse.
I’ve noticed that attitude from hunt seat riders - and also an idea that we’re all barbarians who still worm their horses with plug tobacco. :lol: I guess it’s kind of like how non-riders think “the horse does all the work.” Uninformed opinions.
If, like me, you don’t have access to real good western instruction, think about buying the 7 Clinics DVD series. So worth it. :yes: I go back to them again and again.[/QUOTE]
I will look at that series! Great tip thank you. I am not yet sure about a western specific trainer/instructor in my area. In New England the predominant style is English, of course, but there are pockets of western! Thanks so much for the recommendation!
[QUOTE=pAin’t_Misbehavin’;8725802]
I really wanted to try a Fabtron Cross Trail - it looks so nice in the catalog. But it only comes in FQHB and I need semi-QH bars for my new horse.
I’ve noticed that attitude from hunt seat riders - and also an idea that we’re all barbarians who still worm their horses with plug tobacco. :lol: I guess it’s kind of like how non-riders think “the horse does all the work.” Uninformed opinions.
If, like me, you don’t have access to real good western instruction, think about buying the 7 Clinics DVD series. So worth it. :yes: I go back to them again and again.[/QUOTE]
I will look at that series! Great tip thank you. I am not yet sure about a western specific trainer/instructor in my area. In New England the predominant style is English, of course, but there are pockets of western! Thanks so much for the recommendation!
I love the 7 Clinics series. I watched them while I was laid up after got surgery. I think (hope) they helped improve my feel and timing. I know I’m more conscious of it. I did get a stubborn Fjord to eventually cross a small small water crossing the other evening. Maybe I have those DVDs to thank for that.
As to which is easier, I don’t feel that one is easier than the other. Just different. And it all depends on how far you want to go with it. The average trail rider around here doesn’t have that great of a level of horsemanship, but there are those of us who strive to better ourselves. And every discipline has its share of truly good people, and truly awful people. It’s very interesting reading people’s perspectives.
Stacy Westfall should have information on her website regarding neck reining.
Yup. Although I started with Western and have now been learning some English (mostly hunter).
And my horses do both as well.
Shotgun’s western getup
Shotgun’s english getup
English Pro’s
-getting to learn something new!
-strengthen’s my seat and legs
-jumping is a blast
English Con’s
-lack of shows (only a handful of small local shows, or a handful of QH breed shows)
-lack of tack (anything I need to buy I have to buy online because no one carries English tack, pretty much in my entire state)
-lack of trainers. (I am fortunate to have a great trainer in my area but without her … I’d have to travel pretty far to find someone)
PoPo, had to giggle about your blog post…yes, Trainer has experience with English-to-Western, jumped/dressage, won’t quit niggling horse with her heels, pulls the rein across the mane bed, won’t give the reins all the way out lady riders. Cough, cough.
That took some doing. Maybe four years, before I could really, all the time let my horse on a LOOSE rein when appropriate. Of course, this is with a really troubled, screwed up, hot, sensitive, athletic OTTB…kinda frightening to let the reins go but the paradox is that he is much more secure when you don’t keep them too short.
Anyway, it took a while for my seat and leg to move over to a good, useful position in a Wade saddle. A nice, tight leg for jumping, with the heel down…really, a GOOD leg for jumping, is not right in that Wade saddle. When you have that heel wedged down, the leg is braced. That helps you stay tight when you jump, you are supposed to have that leg for jumping, but it doesn’t work when you want to use your stirrups to add life (instead of squeezing), or to effect a rollback type turn with the outside stirrup on your horse’s shoulder.
I have another 40-something, former English rider friend who is not quite comfortable for long periods in her good Freckers saddle. When she can keep her leg long and relaxed, instead of bracing her weight against the stirrups, it will be better.
Anyway, other challenges have been: The coils. Of the mecate and the rope. Now that I can use some muscle memory rather than having to think about it, it is really, really nice to have those two tools (mecate rein to lead, coil in the mecate when I’m riding, and rope to brand calves with). And with that mecate rein, I can now direct rein my snaffle bit horse one handed so that I CAN rope. But it was hard to deal with for a long time.
And now that I have my leg useful in the Wade saddle…I can’t just canter up and pop over a 3’ log in the forest. With your stirrup that long, you can’t use your stirrups to create a base of support. And my leathers won’t shorten that much…so the saddle horn becomes an inconvenience!
Western is much harder and also superior to English. The horses are much better trained and more responsive. The Western disciplines rely on a more logical and progressive training program, from the ground up, whereas the English tend to just move forward without breaking down training into building-block types steps like Western riders and trainers do.
If I buy you a box of wine, will you go over and post that on the dressage forum?
Come on, a box of wine won’t be enough. Palm Beach should hold out for the wine, a flame suit, and a good amount of Floo Powder.
I don’t quite agree with the sentiment, I would say that a quality horsemanship program does not differ much from one outfit/style/discipline to the next. And there are unfortunately many examples of dreadfulness to be aghasted about in every discipline, so if your exposure is to quality in, say, the western disciplines and mediocrity in the others…I totally get it.
But I still remember my previous mentor, who rode 3* eventers, was short listed for an Olympic dressage team, served as staff with more than one foxhunt, had sound horses in their twenties jumping 3’9", whose horses ADORED her…watching some (good) barrel racers warming their horses up, telling me, “Look at their horse’s hocks, look at the kind of bounce and elasticity and athleticism they are bringing out of their horses!” So anyway, I think there are trainwrecks, mediocrity and greatness in most disciplines.
I ride both, though I was pretty much exclusive to western for a while. I have ridden western on and off throughout my equestrian career, so it wasn’t a huge transition for me. I switched half way through last year after dealing with some anxiety issues. I had a bad accident many years ago involving a mounting block, and every so often (for some dumb reason) I get anxiety attacks over mounting. Mounting in a western saddle feels much safer and more secure to me, and I tend not to have anxiety about mounting when riding western. I also got bucked off a couple of times while cantering and thus had some anxiety about cantering. Thankfully simply switching tack really helped with a lot of those issues.
The other reason I switched is that, while my mare is a good mover, as somebody on here said she is “a little slower in her gaits.” After a couple of years of banging my head against the wall trying to get “energy” out of her, we switched to western dressage. Our scores have come up, and I am having a lot of fun again.
I do switch back and forth from time to time. I miss riding regular dressage, a lot. I am thinking about attempting to show regular dressage later this year. We shall see how that goes.
