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EQ Saddle Science?

Thanks @polkadotedpony and @Xanthoria - that’s super helpful.

Based on their website, I was hoping to try a Tribute (I like a deeper seat), with the Elegance being my second choice. Hopefully they have either of those on hand that will fit my horse. The adjustable stirrup bars sound like a nice feature, so I’ll try to remember to ask about that. If my horse and I both like this, I’m hoping to order one with a little bit of customization but use the lease option on the trial saddle until it arrives. Then I’ll also want to trial and probably order a jumping saddle because we event.

This is a very small data point but FWIW - my trainer rode my horse in an EQ during a clinic (the clinician rides in them and let us borrow it). My horse did great and my trainer loved it. My horse is very picky about saddles so when I am back in the market for a saddle for her, I will definitely consider one.

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I just wanted to comment that among the many things that can be customized on the EQ saddles is the twist and rise, if those are things that are important for your comfort. Currently every saddle is made by hand, so there is a lot of room for tweaking as the saddle is constructed.

Full disclosure: I’m an independent specialist for EQ Saddle Science and enthusiastic owner myself (even before working with the company). I’m not a salesperson so much as a facilitator to answer any questions you might have, explain the process for trials and ordering, and basically be your best friend throughout the process - even if you don’t trial or buy. We’re still working on a way to clone Carmi, because she’s awesome. I’m not Carmi, but I’m happy to share what I know! We all love to hear your stories and try to be available by phone, email, text, etc.

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This is essentially a McClellan Cavalry saddle to my eye. Which must’ve functioned pretty well or it wouldn’t have been around for so long. It’s the shock absorbing discs here that I’m not sure about. Healthy, functional structures – from the joints of the body to the Golden Gate Bridge – require a balance of strength/stability & flexibility/mobility. Seems like the discs could potentially allow for too much mobility?

Balance in one direction actually requires micromovements of kinetic energy in the opposite (and all directions). Our skeletons are mostly symmetrical, our soft tissues decidedly asymmetrical due to our long-term movement patterns. We all have one sitz bone that sits lower/higher, further back/further forward, one leg that is felt by the horse more strongly than the other, and so on. Imo, the mixed messages the horse receives as a result of rider asymmetry are the root cause of many training issues and perhaps even a good portion of chronic pain & injuries we see in horses. A large part of what makes pros and other high level riders good is that they generally possess self-carriage of such a strength that they can move in concert with the horse yet balance almost independently of it. Michael Blake or Nick Skelton riding the bareback puissance are examples extreme enough where this phenomenon can be easily seen.

Most of us aren’t as strong as those guys. And even riders that are that strong tire & can’t maintain for 100% of any given ride. The congruence provided by a well-fitted traditional saddle functions to protect the horse (and ourselves) against some of the lopsided weirdness of the pressure exerted by our asymmetrical muscles & less than perfect balance. That’s potentially missing with this saddle. For example, the rider on the Fresian-looking horse on EQ’s website is leaning off to the side. Her sitz bones may be evenly weighted in the saddle, but she’s maintained it by shifting her weight out of balance & her hips & shoulders are no longer mirroring the horse’s. At least to my eye. Granted, that’s a split second of a much longer ride & we all know how that can go.

While I have a fairly extensive education and layperson credentials in sports biomechanics and anatomy, I am still just that – a layperson – with no PhD or MD behind my name. I acknowledge that all opinions expressed here are based on my personal anecdotal experience & not full scientific or medical inquiry. I don’t have the credentials necessary to answer my own questions. I think it is an interesting idea, and could be helpful to some horse/rider pairs. I’d just like to see more of the details of the research that informs the design. The doctor involved asserts that removing the flaps allows for the rider’s sitz bones to rest evenly in the saddle. It could. But why? And is that the only factor involved?

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Have you ridden in one of these saddles?

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TheDBYC - gosh, I’d love to sit down and have a chat with you about your experiences!

I’m curious if you’ve checked out the 'Science Behind the Saddle’ series on YouTube, which breaks down the components of the technology.

You’re right that there’s so much more research that needs to be done regarding riders and saddles - we’re excited to have been able to collaborate with Dr. Hillary Clayton and look forward to doing more.

There’s a lot to try to wrap your mind around that can’t happen by looking at pictures or videos or reading testimonials. In the end, though, the horses tell us how the saddles work for them. Hence the 2-week trial program, where we only ask you to pay shipping.

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Could you elaborate on this a little more? I believe the rider is in half pass to the right. To my eye, her right hip has advanced ahead of her left hip, while her shoulder appear to be square to the end of the arena. Would this not mirror the horse’s shoulders and hips in a half pass right? In addition, the rider’s left hip appears to have dropped somewhat, but if I draw a line through the horse’s hips, it appears the left hip is lower than the right, again showing the rider mirroring the horse. The upper part of her spine (between her shoulders) does seem to be slightly left of the horse’s spine, so that is perhaps not ideal. It Obviously, it is only a moment in time, but it is a less commonly seen angle for a photo, so I like to use such things to improve my eye for when I look at my own videos or photos…

Are you suggesting the saddle is somehow causing the rider to have these potential undesirable asymmetries? I’m struggling with that idea as I see many riders (including myself!) be asymmetrical in their weight distribution and balance regardless of what kind of saddle they are riding in (obviously most are riding in a traditional saddle), so I’m just not sure what part the saddle, in general, plays in this? Or are you suggesting the panel/tree interface (with the discs) would magnify the rider’s asymmetries to the horse? I believe the Fresian photo was taken during the work that was reported in Hilary Claytons published article that seemed to fairly clearly demonstrate the flapless EQ saddles increased rider stability in the saddle…

I’m considering one of these saddles for my hard to fit/sensitive boy so trying to determine what I should be looking out for in him or me during the trial. :slight_smile:

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I am reminded of all the comments from people who had never laid eyes on a Brenderup stating they must be dangerous and an awful ride for horses…

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I just had my fitting for my horse for the EQ. I rode in a tribute and I loved it. My trainer and then another trainer and the next thing you knew… the barn owner wants the rep to come back out to have a demo. I have a big moving horse and he just loved the saddle. The true test will be the 2 week trial, but I have high hopes for this. I know several people who love the saddle.

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I don’t think it’s unreasonable for folks considering a big ticket purchase to research & ask questions. Especially for a premium product that is relatively new technology & doesn’t command a wide market share yet. Everyone’s circumstances are different. For me personally, a mistake purchasing a saddle at this price point would mean I was saddle-less until I could resell it to fund another. OP may not have that financial constraint, though, and a different formula for weighing the relative value of the saddle. That’s for her to say.

Eta: I will say that @rfath’s response – here, let me demonstrate the value of the saddle to you – is very polite & professional!

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[quote=“TheDBYC, post:30, topic:758380”]
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for folks considering a big ticket purchase to research & ask questions. Especially for a premium product that is relatively new technology & doesn’t command a wide market share yet. Everyone’s circumstances are different. For me personally, a mistake purchasing a saddle at this price point would mean I was saddle-less until I could resell it to fund another.[/quote]

You’re right… no one wants to spend $$$ for a saddle and then find that it doesn’t work. That’s part of why the trial is required before you can buy a saddle.

We’re not interested in selling a saddle and then disappearing. You’re part of the EQ family. We’re happy to keep working with you after your purchase to make sure that it works for you.

Questions are great!. We’re always happy to discuss and share our experiences.

After sending my photos and tracings to EQ, a used 2019 Tribute suddenly came up sorta locally for sale on FB. I sent the specification to Carmi and she felt it was a reasonably close match to my horse’s specifications. The saddle arrived Friday and I had a remote video/phone fitting yesterday with Carmi. Unfortunately, my cell service at the barn is awful so we managed about 5 minutes of video, then had to switch to just phone (which I had to go about 100 yards from my horse to talk to her!). But Carmi was great - very patient and good at explaining things so I could make changes and then assess those changes (it helped I had watched all the Reactor Panel and EQ fitting and info videos). The remote fitting price (which is super reasonable) is good for 30 days of any additional assistance I need, so customer service is really exceptional.

It was too late to ride by the time we were done, so I rode today. It was awesome. My horse was very skeptical while I was tacking him up and mounting, but as we walked around the ring, he started to relax. He got better and better throughout the ride - more relaxed, straighter, and much more even left and right, especially in lateral work. We had one of the nicest left lead canters we’ve had in months. I found it very comfortable (luckily the size and twist were just right for me!), felt incredibly stable, and the correct position felt effortless. Totally didn’t notice the absence of the flap, but I felt very connected to my horse and both seat and leg aids seemed to go through better.

Obviously, more rides are needed to make sure today was not a fluke, but this horse (especially right now) has been quite clear when something isn’t right so I’m feeling rather optimistic. :smiley:

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That’s awesome @leheath !

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What is the difference in technology and customer service or Reactor Panel saddles and EQ Science Saddles? Are they related companies? Same company? Really like the EQ Science videos - whomever posted the youtube link, THANK YOU!

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They are sister companies. The person that owns EQ used to own RP but started EQ as a “off shoot” to focus on the dressage & jumping side of the market while RP now focuses on the trail/endurance side of the market.

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Ride #2 tonight went pretty darn well despite horsey having a few too many herd bound thoughts (he recently transitioned to herd living and it has required some adjustments for both of us!). Much better lateral work - easier, more flowing, and less difference between left and right. And it definitely makes me more stable - way less correction of my standard habit of shifting left (especially at the canter) than a ride in any other saddle I own, which is probably why he was much straighter in the canter. The stability (and maybe the lack of a flap) also seems to allow for quieter aids - first change I used “normal” aids and he took off and leapt through the change…next time I barely thought about the change aids and it was smooth and quiet. Very interesting.

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It’s a shame these don’t seem to be available in the UK, as I will be in the market for a saddle in about a year’s time, when my youngster is hopefully ready for backing. I rode my old horse in an Orthoflex saddle for years. The panel system worked well for her, but the saddle had to be retired when the ball joints that connected the panels to the tree wore out. I was living in the UK by then, and sending it Transatlantic to be repaired in their factory in the US was totally impractical. Saddlers here were totally baffled by it and couldn’t fix it.

I’m sure the tech has moved on a lot since I bought that thing in the late '90s, but as a concept, it was fabulous and I had no saddle problems for all the years I used it (until it died). Would love another similar thing for the baby horse when the time comes.

The Reactor Panel saddles are definitely available in the UK. EQ is based here in the US, but the saddles are made in the UK, so it may be possible to get them there. I would contact the company or maybe @rfath can answer this question?

We do work with customers in the UK (and other places worldwide)! The trial process is a little bit different. Happy to discuss via private message, only because I don’t want to derail this thread. Send me a message!

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Another update - I’m keeping the EQ dressage saddle and now working on trialing a jumping saddle from them. I’m so happy with how well this saddle works for me and my boy. Definitely noticed I can use smaller/quieter aids and my horse is much easier to get straight and through. He was basically not ridable in his treed saddle (professionally fitted twice by a competent fitter) due to his kissing spine flare up, so this much improvement in such a short period of time is both a relief and somewhat amazing. :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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