There is also a bias to those survivors who report. Look at those who accused GM, and RG. I mean there was a fullblown witch hunt looking for who the people were and to make sure no one believed them. Both sides get it, but like is being said, rarely are the accusations false, and rarely are false accusations taken so far because it is generally easy to weed out those who lie.
Have you watched the series on Netflix “Unbelievable”? Worth a watch.
But it is EXPENSIVE to require our governing body of our sport to regulate in this manner. I don’t want my governing body exposed to the potential liability of having to vet every competitor by doing criminal checks on every competitor. That is the slippery slope that I’m talking about. It’s just not the role of the governing body nor do I want it to be their role.
A certified instructor…sure, to get that certification, fine. Same with licensed officials (and that is the case now). But not every competitor.
You have an incorrect notion of the typical process and possible outcomes for a teacher accused of sexual misconduct. It can absolutely result in not only job loss but permanent inability to get a new job in education, even if the charge ends up being nebulous or unprovable. In the US, people in all sectors of the workforce lose their jobs on all kinds of weak suspicion of theft or sexual misconduct, especially people without unions and especially people of color. I’m not saying that’s a good thing. I’m saying horse trainers aren’t singled out on this nor should they be special snowflakes that get more protections than any other small business owner or working person.
I’m completely fine with governing bodies sanctioning anyone who makes a maliciously false accusation. Those are incredibly rare… and if they’re truly malicious and false, usually don’t pass an investigative sniff test long enough to cause lasting harm. That’s again why having an independent and confidential investigation process available as in SafeSport protects everyone.
I understand. I think that’s why Safe Sport is trying to stay ahead. Mr. Barisone was suspended pending trial, but it was immediate after his arrest.
New members would be a whole other issue, but new offenses are are catchable.
Yes agreed. From a general philosophical and a practical standpoint I’m not interested in resources being funneled in that direction.
But if the governing bodies can be a force in keeping out the sexual predators I’m all for that.
No that isn’t what Safe Sport is about…but the is a different conversation all together.
Here’s the other side of the coin … to be the victim while the investigation is ongoing and the assailant is still active in the community.
This article describes a high school student who raped another high school student. Both continued going to classes in the same school, so the victim had to see her assailant every day.
https://meaww.com/rapist-student-niagara-wheatfield-senior-high-school-senior-elias-dowdy-probation
And in the end he was given probation and warned that if his family & friends continued to harass the victim on social media, he would “be in trouble”. So that language indicates that somehow that seemed to the judge to be more serious than the rape. However, the article does mention that students staged a walkout on behalf of the victim, so at least some of them recognized the issue.
I have a big problem with this, if you’re talking broad-brush in the nature of the crime. People make mistakes, people steal stuff they shouldn’t, people do drugs and later regret it. The whole point of the justice system is to punish them, and then allow them back into society for another chance at being a decent citizen.
I don’t think someone should be excluded from competing a horse because of a mistake they committed in the past.
Maybe you’re talking about specific crimes? Because (in my opinion) stealing an expensive bike when you’re 18 years old shouldn’t ruin your entire life, in every facet.
I’m speaking about violent crimes. Not the dumb kid who stole a bike way back when.
Considering it has physical harm in the form of hitting, punching, throwing things at, etc. as no no’s it is. It also is covered in the USEF rule book. It doesn’t mention shooting people specifically but I think of you can get suspended for punching someone, it goes without saying you can’t shoot someone.
As a lawyer I want to say, Lord, if only people were as concerned about victims as they are about the hypothetical wrongly accused (usually men). Denali and Poltroon have really said it all. False reports are very rare. That’s why people are always screaming “Duke lacrosse!” It’s pretty much the only one (plus one other famous one) that anyone can come up with. But never do they scream, “3 out of 4 cases of sexual assault go unreported!! What can we do to help victims feel okay coming forward?”
FWIW, I was at Duke during that case. Most people don’t know the nuances of that case or don’t care. Like the McDonald’s coffee case (which we studied extensively in law school) the general public know only a few points of the case and go off on that and are generally completely wrong. The Duke case: the lacrosse players were NOT proved “innocent” and the accusation was never proved false. In fact, there was no trial (did you know that - be honest?).
Worry more about the tens of thousands of women, children, and men who feel intimidated and shamed into not reporting. That’s the VAST majority of people you should be concerned about. The falsely accused are few and far between. And both criminal charges for false allegations AND civil suits for damages are already in place to help them. What’s in place for the victims too afraid to come forward b/c so many people are bound and determined to worry about the vanishingly small number that may not be true?
I did know that, and I do know the details of the McD’s case.
I wonder if the reason why there is so much concern about wrongful accusations is the fact that often sexual assault cases are a “victim’s word against the accused”. Evidence is circumstantial if not reported immediately, which leaves it up to a third party to decide who is telling the truth. This will naturally make people uncomfortable with the proposed outcomes.
Just a thought.
Even violent crimes. I know many people who are violent felons who have changed their life. They were young and dumb, and now have that monkey on their back until they get their one chance (in my state) to get their record wiped clean. That doesn’t stop the google search results, though.
And before anyone tells me what crappy people I hang out with, I know them because they are employed by me, in a manufacturing plant.
Except rapists don’t change their behaviour. Much like child predators. The want to rape is a seriously complex behavioural issue. The first instance of raping someone is rarely the first offence, might be the first thing they are actually caught for though.
So, if that’s 100% the case, then what to do with them? Lock them up for life? Death penalty?
How long do they get locked up for? Maybe that’s where we should be focusing our attention instead of trying to get them suspended from showing horses. It would have a much broader protective impact.
well if it were up to ME they would be locked up, and the child predators would all be castrated. IMO rape is taking something from someone they can never get back, so I would be pleased with life in prison. Might make people think twice about it. BUT I live in Canada, so here they might get a 20 jail sentence and then government support for life 
Same here in the US, probably less with good behavior and parole. Murder and manslaughter is the same - taking something someone can’t get back… again, depending on circumstance, very little time with good behavior.
I’m not sure the castration would do anything for the pedos, as they would find another way to fulfill their mental issue.
Speaking of mental issues, should we be addressing that standpoint better? Or is this group of people considered a “lost cause”? Because if that’s the case, death penalty would be ideal. They can’t be rehabbed. Or if some of them can be rehabbed, how to ID the save-able type?
Now, I’m not sure exactly how I feel about all of this. I would have to do a lot more research. I’m simply pointing out that stopping them from showing a horse doesn’t solve the problem in the slightest, and the huge efforts put in would be better served advocating for 1) better mental health rehab for these people or 2) longer/harsher sentences, or death.
No that is NOT what I said. Safe Sport is NOT really about keeping criminals out of sport…its an attempt to reduce the leverage and power of predators in a very limited situation…and perhaps educate others of the signs to predators. The MB case has NOTHING to do with safe sport other than the victim filed a complaint and perhaps that set off the guy…but in that situation, there might have been a shooting even without that complaint filed with safe sport. SAFE SPORT really doesn’t make the “sport” safer…that was my point.
And honestly…because our sport doesn’t really have teams…and has an extremely low qualification threshold to show and compete (unlike many other sports) (we have a higher economic one as horses are generally expensive)…we are really a different situation and do not have most of risks that “safe sport” was designed to address. It doesn’t mean there are not predators or creeps in our sport…just that the really don’t have the leverage as in team sports. Our sport just faces the normal risks we all face for these guys. You do not have to train with a particular trainer…you do not have to be on a team.
And I will stand by my view that this sport is already expensive enough…and has very limited resources…I personally don’t want to see those directed at defending against liability suits or on criminal background checks and reviews for all participants. I have NO trouble with background checks for licensed officials and certified instructors…of course we are not required to use certified instructors (and I’m fine with that too).
A former co-worker of mine just got sentenced to life with parole after serving 105 years for sexual acts against minors and distribution of child porn. That was on a plea deal too.
Show me a non-child rapist with the same sentencing.
Additionally, how long do you think he will serve before either a) he’s killed in prison, or b) they release him on parole for “good behavior”?
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