Eventing Etiquette For XC Schooling

[JP60]

[QUOTE=Jersey Fresh;8864218]
I think its a mixed bag. Just like in non-riding situations, not everyone has common sense and not everyone is courteous.

One of my teammates got dumped at the last schooling at the KHP because she was jumping a jump that was about 3 strides out from the water. Someone came galloping into the water from the other side, not paying attention and they almost collided. My friends horse jumped the jump and slammed on the brakes at the water, dumping her. The other rider didn’t even apologize.

Ive also had someone walk in front of an XC jump and stand there talking to the jump judge as I galloped down yelling “Heads up!!”. The JJ never told her friend to move and the person didn’t move until i was probably 4 strides away from the jump.

People don’t always think. And that is especially dangerous on when schooling XC with green horses and green riders.[/QUOTE]
I’m curious where and when that happened.

Two years ago I was walking the course at WIndridge for the last time and had two people with me that were going to video the field (not just me) so I was helping them find good viewing angles. We were standing in front of a fence that to my understanding (at the time) was not in use. A moment later a rider was coming towards us and finally started shouting at us. In that moment I realized that we were in their way. We moved very quickly, but I am sure I distracted the team even though they made the fence.

At the time I did not see any flags sticking up so assumed (yes, I know) it was not in use. Now I know that a fence does not need flags sticking up, but can be marked with red and white, and number just attached.

I give this confession as a public mea culpa (and if it was you a personal apology), but also to indicate that not all actions are done out of rudeness, but perhaps lack of knowledge or awareness of the situation. Believe me, I learned from that moment and now when I walk an active course, I am hyper-aware of what is going on around me. As it turns out, just this year I had a moment where I needed to shout at people on course for they seemed to not noticed I was coming. They also moved and I went on to take the next fence. That was at AECs and I never even thought about them again.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=Lori T;8864241]
I apologize for anyone taking offense to my hunter comment…it was more tonque in cheek, since I come from the hunters and from my experience, hunters tend to be a bit different when it comes to schooling. That was one of the attractions I had to eventing, in that everyone was so nice and helpful.[/QUOTE]

I would just think that as a representative/ account executive for Devon-Aire Riding Apparel among others- which is in your sig line- you may temper your personal feelings about other disciplines on a public bb.

Everyone makes mistakes, sometimes it is how you learn, sometimes it is a chance to educate someone, sometimes you just have to roll with it and hope the next ride is better or less challenging.

[beowulf]

Wow OP, I would consider that rude.

I’ve been to large venues in large schooling group situations - up to 10 in a group. The general norm is everyone keeps moving - most would do an Orbit or ‘carousel’ type arrangement where they jump one after the other over an obstacle repeatedly (so no jumping, coming back to the group, standing while another person jumps, etc) - very efficient way to keep the ball rolling and school an obstacle without holding up anyone. The horses that were “trouble” were allowed to go over it a few more times while the group moved its ‘orbit’ to another fence.

I think it is incredibly rude that someone would cut in while a group was obviously schooling something, but I have been in that situation where I have gone to a venue to school a SPECIFIC complex and have had to wait ~30-45m as another group was hogging the complex. So I can see both sides of the coin as I have been cut off while schooling a specific thing and I have also had to wait around while others were ‘hogging’ a complex.

If a group is at a complex for more than 15-20m I usually would walk up to them and explain that I came to school that fence specifically and ask if I can either be part of their rotation (but not taught) or if I can go very quickly while they sort out who goes next. I have had some people look at me like I was asking them the most obscene request, but I don’t ask unless they’ve been there for more than 20 minutes.

Unfortunately I do find BNTs are the worst offenders – last month we went to a new venue to school the water with my BN horse and a greenbean - water complex was vacant so we went down to the bank… BN horse went right in but green-bean paused… as his rider was urging greenbean in, we to got yelled off by an approaching galloping group by BNT. Rider & GB had to turn away from the water as the group galloped in and drenched me in a driveby… We reapproached again as it looked like they had moved on, and they told us to get out again on our second approach! They had galloped thru, jumped a few things out in the field, and then turned around and doubled back while we were trying to get greenbean in the water. We were there first, and had not been ‘occupying’ the water complex for even two minutes…

I agree it is a mixed bag. I have had good and bad experiences. Most people by and large are courteous and make up for the ones that are not. I’ve had mostly great experiences in large group schooling settings and would at this point take the discourtesy in stride.

[Jersey_Fresh]

[QUOTE=JP60;8864432]
I’m curious where and when that happened.

Two years ago I was walking the course at WIndridge for the last time and had two people with me that were going to video the field (not just me) so I was helping them find good viewing angles. We were standing in front of a fence that to my understanding (at the time) was not in use. A moment later a rider was coming towards us and finally started shouting at us. In that moment I realized that we were in their way. We moved very quickly, but I am sure I distracted the team even though they made the fence.

At the time I did not see any flags sticking up so assumed (yes, I know) it was not in use. Now I know that a fence does not need flags sticking up, but can be marked with red and white, and number just attached.

I give this confession as a public mea culpa (and if it was you a personal apology), but also to indicate that not all actions are done out of rudeness, but perhaps lack of knowledge or awareness of the situation. Believe me, I learned from that moment and now when I walk an active course, I am hyper-aware of what is going on around me. As it turns out, just this year I had a moment where I needed to shout at people on course for they seemed to not noticed I was coming. They also moved and I went on to take the next fence. That was at AECs and I never even thought about them again.[/QUOTE]

No it wasnt you-it was this year at the KHP at MayDaze. It was the jump judges responsibility to make sure they weren’t standing in front of my jump but s/he was too busy talking to them that s/he didn’t tell them to move. Its not a big deal, they moved when I started yelling heads up and we rode clean but what if I was on a green horse or had to pull up and accrued time faults?

My bigger issue with not paying attention/lack of courtesy was the example with my friend. She could have been hurt if the two had collided. She was clearly on the path to the jump when the other rider galloped through in front of her.

[riderboy]

Rude, dangerous, definitely would have honked my tweeter as well. When venues like the Kentucky Horse Park for example open up for schooling days a few times a year, I avoid them like the plague for that reason.

[subk]

I think there’s plenty of blame and rudeness to go around. YES, a group of 9 on an open schooling XC day is rude. Never in my life have I seen a group of 9 or more be able to go to a complex to school and not totally monopolize the complex for an undue amount of time. Last year at Percy Warner Park on an open schooling day that went from 8-12 we had a local barn basically shut down the only water jump for 2 hours–half the available schooling time went to about 12 people while there were close to 200 schooling that day. If you are local and have that large of a group the considerate thing to do is to make arrangements to school privately.

Just because many well known trainers pack their groups doesn’t make it right and doesn’t make it considerate.

[FlightCheck]

9 riders in group = minimum of 18 minutes at each jump grouping. That’s if everyone’s first tries are good.

I had 1 student there that day. What is irritating about the large groups is that they spread o-u-t around complexes even when only schooling some of the fences.

My solution was to send my student through as the coach was speaking to the group (and that included the OPs group).

I did tell each coach/group what I was doing, and no one objected. Of course, maybe they did privately!!

Large groups have no more right to monopolize a complex than anyone else. We all paid the same amount of $$.

[Lori_T]

[QUOTE=FlightCheck;8865567]
9 riders in group = minimum of 18 minutes at each jump grouping. That’s if everyone’s first tries are good.

I had 1 student there that day. What is irritating about the large groups is that they spread o-u-t around complexes even when only schooling some of the fences.

My solution was to send my student through as the coach was speaking to the group (and that included the OPs group).

I did tell each coach/group what I was doing, and no one objected. Of course, maybe they did privately!!

Large groups have no more right to monopolize a complex than anyone else. We all paid the same amount of $$.[/QUOTE]

FlightCheck, you were the only one who said anything! The others coming through were from much larger groups than ours and just came galloping through as someone was about to gallop a line. My whole point of this thread was to ask if this is now common to cut into another group, as I have never witnessed so much of it. But the last time I was out in a group was about 8 years ago with Jen and Imp.
I think the lesson learned here is to either not go out on busy xc school days or learn to not let it bother me!!

[Ajierene]

I keep thinking about this as I was reading the thread and I guess I just don’t notice or don’t care enough. I school at Fair Hill quite often and depending on the day and time it could be very packed or barely anyone. They only open schooling on certain days listed on their calendar.

We have jumped through groups, sometimes saying something sometimes not. If everyone is actively jumping, we will often say something, if we are doing something like running through the water and the other group is doing the same thing, we will often just run through the water with them. If we are jumping a jump next to the jump they are jumping, we may not. If someone is at a “complex” (water, foundation, ditches), we will usually bypass it and swing back.

We have had people meandering over the hill suddenly appear in our way. We have had people jump through our group. I find often the people that are jumping through are either doing a course or repeating the course from the last show. They open the course the Tuesday after shows and almost always leave the course up the way it was for the show, especially if it was the schooling show.

If someone does something like you stated, my trainer would probably comment that they couldn’t wait any longer or were in a hurry, shrug shoulders and move on. Reliving a moment of what could be a misunderstanding or could be rudeness is a waste of time.

As far as the situation you describe, the gentleman could have come up and was attempting to wait for you guys to finish the ditch and decided he could wait no longer (impatient, on a time schedule, etc). Think of it this way - perhaps he was waiting for you to see him and allow him to go through and was upset with your group for not acknowledging him.

It may be the culture where you were schooling to allow people to just jump through if the group is that big. It may not be the culture to call jumps. I often see people jumping without calling the jump in warm up at shows so I’m sure that could translate to schooling.

You can spin it several ways to say he was rude, but you can also spin it a few ways to say your group was rude, as well as a few ways to say it was a misunderstanding. I prefer to chalk these types of things up as a misunderstanding.

[Manahmanah]

[QUOTE=Lori T;8865879]
FlightCheck, you were the only one who said anything! The others coming through were from much larger groups than ours and just came galloping through as someone was about to gallop a line. My whole point of this thread was to ask if this is now common to cut into another group, as I have never witnessed so much of it. But the last time I was out in a group was about 8 years ago with Jen and Imp.
I think the lesson learned here is to either not go out on busy xc school days or learn to not let it bother me!![/QUOTE]

She doesn’t have to say anything if the coach is talking to the group. That’s the problem with big groups - 1 coach, lots of waiting. If someone is not actively jumping (meaning they are in the process of cantering to or away from the jump) then other people may jump it. If you are waiting to hear the the previous riders feedback from the coach before the next person goes, and expect everyone not I your group to ALSO wait for you to listen, this is incredibly rude.

[retreadeventer]

I am of the opinion that groups mean nothing. Each individual horse and rider has a turn. Yes, they may be coached through the obstacle by a trainer who is watching more than one rider because it suits their time and business model, but the group itself does not infer special privileges to monopolize an obstacle.

I absolutely do not feel that it should be necessary to ask or to apologize for jumping through a group that is standing about waiting for an instructor to finish teaching. As long as all safely take a turn, it should not matter. I despise waiting around on a warmed up horse! It’s not good for the horse and it defeats the purpose of cross country schooling.

Nothing seems more tiresome than schooling along, having a nice warmed up horse going forward and eager to get to the next jump, and then getting up to the water jump and having to sit and wait while the same stupid kids canter a huge, 1-minute-30-seconds circle to jump one little jump and splash through the water for the sixth time.

My point? Share. It’s an open schooling. And if you’re in a group - get out of the way when someone else wants to ride through if it is safe and there’s room. And if you’re a trainer, if you don’t like the individual riders riding through, build your own course at home or rent the field for your own exclusive use.

[tbchick84]

I always took the phrase “you mind if we ride through?” to be a polite way to say “could you get out of the way already?”. I agree that groups do not grant them fence monopolies. It’s just like golf. If the group in front of you is moving too slowly, it’s okay to play through.

[Gamma]

Fundamental attribution error, it’s a thing.

[redalter]

[QUOTE=tbchick84;8869061]
I always took the phrase “you mind if we ride through?” to be a polite way to say “could you get out of the way already?”. I agree that groups do not grant them fence monopolies. It’s just like golf. If the group in front of you is moving too slowly, it’s okay to play through.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=retreadeventer;8868969]I am of the opinion that groups mean nothing. Each individual horse and rider has a turn. Yes, they may be coached through the obstacle by a trainer who is watching more than one rider because it suits their time and business model, but the group itself does not infer special privileges to monopolize an obstacle.

I absolutely do not feel that it should be necessary to ask or to apologize for jumping through a group that is standing about waiting for an instructor to finish teaching. As long as all safely take a turn, it should not matter. I despise waiting around on a warmed up horse! It’s not good for the horse and it defeats the purpose of cross country schooling.

Nothing seems more tiresome than schooling along, having a nice warmed up horse going forward and eager to get to the next jump, and then getting up to the water jump and having to sit and wait while the same stupid kids canter a huge, 1-minute-30-seconds circle to jump one little jump and splash through the water for the sixth time.

My point? Share. It’s an open schooling. And if you’re in a group - get out of the way when someone else wants to ride through if it is safe and there’s room. And if you’re a trainer, if you don’t like the individual riders riding through, build your own course at home or rent the field for your own exclusive use.[/QUOTE]

Both of these. Great posts!

[Foxtrot_s]

Large groups at the water complexes are the problem here - not sure what the solution is if a horse is having trouble and holding everyone up, but it is annoying for those following. Time limits?