Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[DMK]

@AffirmedHope

So what are everybody’s thoughts on Live Oak International? It’s held at a venue named Live Oak Plantation, which is also a major breeder of Thoroughbred. I wasn’t able to find much about the history (there was a Live Oak Plantation in Lee County that had slaves) but holding an equestrian event at a venue in a Southern state with the word plantation in it seems problematic.

http://www.liveoakstud.com/aboutus.html

As long as I have been around and aware of Live Oak, it’s been “Live Oak”… maybe add “Stud”, depending on which part of the very large (and diverse) farm you are talking about and add “International” for the annual event. But on every commercial facing and farm road signage it’s “Live Oak” complete with a picture of a … you guessed it… Live Oak (two guesses on what is found on every square inch of the property). Nobody is competing in an event that is as problematically named as PF (and best as I can tell, no one was asking PF the venue to change it’s name, but rather PF the event). Honestly I do not EVER remember it going by anything but LOS (and LOI) and between growing up in Florida, competing in combined driving and working at racing/breeding farms, Live Oak was somewhat positioned to be on my radar!

Which is all by way of saying it appears Live Oak ditched the plantation portion of the name a very long time ago for a great many aspects of their activities. The original farm name has some historical connections to racing, it was originally founded by P.A.B. Widener, Joseph Widener’s grandson (aka Widener Handicap, owned Belmont, founded Hialeah Racetrack). Maybe the decision to keep the original historical name upon acquisition in '95 was also accompanied by a decision to rebrand as LO and let the back half of the name slip quietly away…

[ivy62]

@Jealoushe

A lot of things are about race because the POC are still facing oppression, I’m not sure about Germany but perhaps the Jews feel like enough has been done in Germany, and don’t feel like they face constant oppression and fear.

they weren’t asking to change the name of the farm, just the EVENT. What is the big deal, really. Seems like a pretty small gesture to welcome a community.

As far as the Jews, if you travel throughout the Middle East they certainly have fear. Real fear. People protest that the genocide never happened! The property owner has the right to dictate the name as they own the property. It has been called that for how many years? If this has never been an issue before why is it now? Is it only racist now? Would you have to say Fair Hill or Wardeca should change the name too? The property I believe has been donated. Be thankful for that. It is getting harder and harder to have events that are friendly to all levels.
If a word has multiple meanings, but actually I believe this is not true in this case, it is an association; understand where it came from. If losing this venue is worth being PC so be it. We are losing ground in a sport that cannot afford to. Move the event then…wait… there is no place to move it to… pennywise and dollar foolish… The people calling for this should put up the money and find a place to replace it…
I live in an area where segregation never existed, I went to school with all kinds. ALL children had the chance to do what they wanted. If the child chose not to that was their choice. Opportunity is there just not taken advantage of.
Why aren’t there more white guys in the NBA? There is no right answer except that it has been this way for a long time so why now? If you do not like it do not go…but to have the event shut down, is it worth it?

[Gardenhorse]

@trubandloki

Is that an acceptable phrase in a thread where the entire topic is - that word can mean something else?

Shouldn’t we come up with something else to say things are opposites?

Question from someone who is afraid to google it on their work computer - what does ‘woke’ and ‘wokeness’ mean?

According to Merriam-Webster, in this context it means: “aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)”

[fordtraktor]

@OverandOnward

Could we keep in mind that EN did not cancel the event? The owner made a unilateral decision to pull the lease.

I doubt that anyone would have anticipated that reaction. …

EN had no idea and no intention that this would happen. I doubt anyone anticipated this. It is 100% the decision of one individual (according to him).

If that’s true, it’s almost worse than doing it intentionally. Surely they can’t be so out of touch as to think this “strategy” would go well.

Surely they thought through potential effects on eventing community, investigated the person himself and his feelings about the subject as well as his likely response, and made a reasoned decision that pushing this forward would result in a net positive and beneficial outcome… Oh wait, that would be actual journalism and effective activism, outside the wheelhouse of EN.

[Sticky_Situation]

This board in 2019: EN is awful, they do nothing but blindly support eventing in its current form! If they were any good they would stick their neck out and advocate for change!

This board in 2020: EN is awful, they’ve singlehandedly ruined eventing and caused the loss of one of the nicest venues because they’re trying to be woke and won’t just let things be!

[atl_hunter]

@poltroon

From the article:

It seems to me that that is exactly what they started, in June, providing some of that feedback.

I only know Glaccum from his writings. I’m curious, from those who know him better, and who think the issue is that EN mishandled it: what approach would you take to him that you feel would have been persuasive, assuming you were starting from a blank slate?

But why not handle it similarly to the way “My Old Kentucky Home” was managed for the Derby a few weeks ago? Open the event with the history and connotation of the name, and explain that there are ongoing discussions about the appropriateness of the name and direction that will be taken moving forward. No need to change things overnight when the branded materials are already out there - let the season close out and have discussions 1:1 and directly with the involved parties. It could have been acknowledged that the word plantation has several meanings, just as the word camp can mean a place where you pitch a tent and roast marshmallows OR it can mean a place where millions of Jewish people were exterminated. It could have been further explained that the USEA would continue to engage in discussions with members of all racial and ethnic backgrounds to determine the right direction moving forward.

Woulda. Shoulda. Coulda. Too late now.

[TooManyBays]

It’s a private property. I’d be all on board if we were talking about a park or a monument or something, but it’s not; it’s private.

If the land owner wants to name it ‘Plantation that had slaves field’ or ‘slave acres’ or anything else slightly offensive, it’s his prerogative to do so. We can’t stop him. All we can do is wonder what stick got up his bum.
It’s a free country, and if I want to name my farm ‘FU all stables’ I certainly can!

Hopefully someone else in the area will take over and offer to host this event on their property.

[Jealoushe]

@cutter99

Have you been to Plantation Field? Do you know the extensive history of the Chester County area? Do you understand Quakers and their beliefs? Have you read a thing that has been posted about the history of this farm? Do you understand that the definition of “plantation” does not necessarily refer to a farm in the South worked by slaves?

You are not as woke as you think you are, and your condescending comments make you look bad.

I’ll take that as a compliment. I don’t consider myself “woke”. I consider myself actively anti-racist. Look it up.

Condescending? Like I should care when there are actually offensive and oppressive words being thrown around left right and center everywhere towards certain racial groups.

Have you realized the history of that particular farm doesn’t eliminate the feeling conjured when POC hear the the word Plantation?? Get over yourself.

[B_and_B]

I can’t blame the landowner in the current climate. He has been accused (it doesn’t matter whether rightly or wrongly) of racism on social media, the probability of the complaint generating an opportunistic mob at the event is unlikely but realistic. The only safe thing to do these days is close the gates and bar the public.
It isn’t right, it isn’t going to fix anything, but I bet his lawyers and insurance company are happy.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@Jealoushe

And yes, Plantation does have everything to do with slavery. I have been asking every person I see today and every single person says - “reminds me slaves”. Who do you think worked those Plantation fields?

You are illustrating the very error that lies behind all this. (As I recall, you are not American, so perhaps it is excusable). Plantation is used in many places that have never had any connection to slavery. Perhaps you are unaware that Massachusetts (home of Plimoth Plantation) and Rhode Island (Providence Plantation) were not slave states. (Neither was Pennsylvania, of course). The word has long referred simply to large expanses of cultivated land.

Nowadays, a lot of people are saying, “Gee, when I hear the word, it makes me think of slavery.” That kneejerk association reflects a failure to consider the many places the word is used that have nothing to do with slavery. That’s why it reminds me of the debate over the word “niggardly.” The objection to that word is based on a mistake–the assumption that the word has something to do with race, when it never has.

You are asking people to concede to the error and act accordingly. I do agree that language evolves and sometimes a connotation or construction that was once erroneous can become the mainstream. But that takes time. You can’t bully people into admitting that what was correct last year is suddenly incorrect this year.

[peedin]

nm

[Djones]

@Jealoushe

I’ll take that as a compliment. I don’t consider myself “woke”. I consider myself actively anti-racist. Look it up.

Condescending? Like I should care when there are actually offensive and oppressive words being thrown around left right and center everywhere towards certain racial groups.

Have you realized the history of that particular farm doesn’t eliminate the feeling conjured when POC hear the the word Plantation?? Get over yourself.

Your sport lost a long-time fixture over a misunderstanding and you’re complimented. That speaks volumes for your point of view.

[Jealoushe]

@Horsegirl's Mom

You are illustrating the very error that lies behind all this. (As I recall, you are not American, so perhaps it is excusable). Plantation is used in many places that have never had any connection to slavery. Perhaps you are unaware that Massachusetts (home of Plimoth Plantation) and Rhode Island (Providence Plantation) were not slave states. (Neither was Pennsylvania, of course). The word has long referred simply to large expanses of cultivated land.

Nowadays, a lot of people are saying, “Gee, when I hear the word, it makes me think of slavery.” That kneejerk association reflects a failure to consider the many places the word is used that have nothing to do with slavery. That’s why it reminds me of the debate over the word “niggardly.” The objection to that word is based on a mistake–the assumption that the word has something to do with race, when it never has.

You are asking people to concede to the error and act accordingly. I do agree that language evolves and sometimes a connotation or construction that was once erroneous can become the mainstream. But that takes time. You can’t bully people into admitting that what was correct last year is suddenly incorrect this year.

It doesn’t matter if the locations had slaves or not, what matters is how the name makes people feel, in this case, a specific group of people.

Again, as I have already said several times, it is coming up now because POC and their allies against racism and oppression are finally getting a voice. As hard as you all want to trample that voice, it does exist. Similar to the #metoo movement, time is up.

Have any of you defending the land over read the article by today? I’m sharing it again, along with several other articles that show POC feel about our industry.

I know it is hard to let go of old idealogies and admit that maybe, just maybe your mindset is a bit too old school and out of date and that maybe you can do better. But you really really should try. For the goodness of humanity.

https://eventingnation.com/why-words-matter/

A link to all the posts EN has been working on regarding diversity: https://eventingnation.com/tag/diversity/

[SecondInCommand]

Plantation is its name, not some technical description in a real estate document written in a vacuum. A name is a choice. It does not matter that that particular site was never worked by enslaved people. The fact that it doesn’t conjure images of slavery for many people is irrelevant, because for many, it does. To disregard that once you have been made aware of how loaded a term it is denotes at best an indifference to racism.

While the FB comments are largely a disaster, there are several really great posts, one of which really clearly illustrates this concept.

All credit to the author Lori Kay Brown, whose post is below in its entirety, bolding mine:

[I]Nowhere in the Eventing Nation article will you find the Walker family being called racist. If you are going to react to a piece of writing, it’s important to actually read the item in question carefully first.

It is a non-negotiable fact of U.S. history that the word “plantation” has a persistent and terrible association with properties farmed with the labor of enslaved people. This association is not reduced by the particular and specific history of the Walker property. It doesn’t matter what the history of this particular place is. The association of the word ‘plantation’ with enslaved labor is exceptionally strong and persists over centuries, and across every part of the antebellum South, in particular. As such, it is jarring and inappropriate when used in association with a recreational activity.

It’s like naming your event ‘Auschwitz Gardens’, even though the property was named after a Pennsylvania farmer named Arnold Auschwitz, not a prison. It doesn’t matter that Grandpa Arnold never hurt a fly. The name itself is hurtful and its use in a recreational context suggests a callous disregard for the history of the term. It doesn’t matter that the immediate association’s history is benign. The more widely known association is ugly, vicious, and as such the term ‘plantation’ should not be used anymore. Not for wedding venues, or restaurants, or subdivisions, all for the same reason. The suggestion not to use that name does not constitute any comment on the property’s owners, but represents an effort to stop expressing, through word and deed, a callous disregard for those associations with chattel slavery and that history.

I’m really sorry that Mr. Walker can’t understand this. The effort to constructively engage with the racist legacy of our country is not about him, but none of us get to pretend to stand outside of history, either.[/I]

[Jealoushe]

@Djones

Your sport lost a long-time fixture over a misunderstanding and you’re complimented. That speaks volumes for your point of view.

An event is not more important than making our sport inclusive to me. Sorry you don’t share that opinion. I feel like it all makes a lot of sense now why hardly anyone cares when riders and horses are killed.

Eventers = Events first, humanity second.

[Djones]

THE USDA is RACIST
https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/gtr/gtr_srs075/gtr_srs075-fox002.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3BwgEmfw5RD5jO07xRz33_Psd2WdTz7KQkPs5zAZk2PiKesEMhyESBBxo

MOSSY OAK, TOO
https://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/conservation/pine-plantation-management-the-good-the-bad-the-ugly?fbclid=IwAR1W1fwFjol8zgQy1iuE6gNI4zs18qpqHWctOHmLKRT6BD_JmDrf0FkkLek

WSJ- I MEAN, READ THE CAPTION FOR THE HEADER PHOTO
https://www.wsj.com/articles/thousands-of-southerners-planted-trees-for-retirement-it-didnt-work-1539095250?fbclid=IwAR1W1fwFjol8zgQy1iuE6gNI4zs18qpqHWctOHmLKRT6BD_JmDrf0FkkLek

NC STATE???GO GET 'EM!
https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/developing-wildlife-friendly-pine-plantations

Honestly, the pride expressed by some of you regarding your ignorance over the COMMON USE of the term PLANTATION to describe trees is appalling, and y’all are just so damn proud of yourselves.

YOU WIN! You didn’t know this word is also used routinely for a different purpose but you WIN!

[Trak_Eventer]

I’ll note I’ve asked several non-horse people, “what comes to mind when you hear the word ‘plantation’?” This was asked without any context and to people with a variety of backgrounds and beliefs. The responses I got were… farm where slaves worked, the deep south, slave labor, the confederacy.

I really do think that is what comes to mind for the majority of people. Ask outside your bubble of like-minded and like-voting peers.

I’ll also note that I’m not surprised by the lack of listening and conversation from Glaccum. A quick look at his Facebook page will show why.

[Jealoushe]

@ivy62

As far as the Jews, if you travel throughout the Middle East they certainly have fear. Real fear. People protest that the genocide never happened! The property owner has the right to dictate the name as they own the property. It has been called that for how many years? If this has never been an issue before why is it now? Is it only racist now? Would you have to say Fair Hill or Wardeca should change the name too? The property I believe has been donated. Be thankful for that. It is getting harder and harder to have events that are friendly to all levels.
If a word has multiple meanings, but actually I believe this is not true in this case, it is an association; understand where it came from. If losing this venue is worth being PC so be it. We are losing ground in a sport that cannot afford to. Move the event then…wait… there is no place to move it to… pennywise and dollar foolish… The people calling for this should put up the money and find a place to replace it…
I live in an area where segregation never existed, I went to school with all kinds. ALL children had the chance to do what they wanted. If the child chose not to that was their choice. Opportunity is there just not taken advantage of.
Why aren’t there more white guys in the NBA? There is no right answer except that it has been this way for a long time so why now? If you do not like it do not go….but to have the event shut down, is it worth it?

Ok you commented about Germany not the middle east so clearly bait and switch.

Just because the property is donated doesn’t mean we should just roll over and accept whatever they give. Sometimes in order to gain, you must first lose.

The bolded is a racist comment. End of. What are you implying exactly?? Glad you grew up and didn’t see racism, thank your privilege for that. It exists whether you see it or not. I see racism on a regular basis and I live in Canada where it is not supposed to exist supposedly.

What the hell does white guys in the NBA have to do with anything? There are plenty of white guys in the NBA, and some of them are the some of the most loved and important players.

And again, for the third time, this is now just becoming an issue because POC and their allies finally have a voice to speak out against these issues.

[Sticky_Situation]

@B and B

I can’t blame the landowner in the current climate. He has been accused (it doesn’t matter whether rightly or wrongly) of racism on social media, the probability of the complaint generating an opportunistic mob at the event is unlikely but realistic. The only safe thing to do these days is close the gates and bar the public.
It isn’t right, it isn’t going to fix anything, but I bet his lawyers and insurance company are happy.

If anything makes him look like a ‘racist’ it’s his response to the whole situation.

I don’t fault him for having a property with the word ‘plantation’ in it, especially given that the name came about 80 years ago and had nothing to do with slavery.

And honestly, if he feels strongly about keeping the name for historical reasons or whatever, even just making a statement acknowledging the concerns and explaining the origin of the name might help.

But what he actually did, i.e. responding with “You calling me racist? Get off my lawn!” is the one thing that does make him look like a racially tone-deaf old rich white dude.

[Equibrit]

It’s a pain in the bum having an event on your property, why tolerate more pain ?

See post on May 10th;
https://www.facebook.com/groups/6977…0001923397709/

Maybe he can replace this event with one run by polite, respectful people.