Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[DLee]

@fordtraktor

Wow, this from the COTH article is pretty amazing. @OverandOnward EN itself states they knew this was a potential outcome so we no longer need to wonder if they possibly could have foreseen it:

"As they proceeded, Wylie and EN owner John Thier knew the loss of the event might be the outcome. In an email shared with the Chronicle, dated Aug. 28, Olympic rider and PFEE board member Boyd Martin wrote, “The worst case outcome for us in the Eventing world is that if the landowner gets so offended with this issue that he decides to kick the event off his land and we lose the venue for the sport we love and need.” Thier responded, “There are many worse outcomes for Eventing in the US than losing the PFI venue, such as the sport not standing up for what is right.”

PFEE board members also said EN invoked the threat of mainstream media coverage if the event did not change its name."

Wow.

I see Taylor Harris Insurance has pulled any advertising on EN.

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

Sleep with one eye open, Souplantation.

[AffirmedHope]

@Ceffyl_Dwr

Sleep with one eye open, Souplantation.

Someone in the Facebook comments mentioned Morvin Park has its cross country course running over the former homes and unmarked graves of slaves. If that’s true, I hope EN plans on using their platform to denounce that event as well. I think galloping horses for competition over GRAVES is much more problematic then the name of a facility that has absolutely no ties to slavery.

[Rnichols]

@Horsegirl's Mom

You know that Hindus and other groups continue to use the swastika, right?

So that is an example of how a word or symbol can have a terrible connotation, yet people can be reasonable and thoughtful enough to realize it also has uses that don’t relate to the terrible connotation.

https://www.hinduamerican.org/blog/1…-the-swastika/

From the article:

Many Hindus adorn the threshold of the front entrance to their homes with the swastika

Especially during Diwali, this year on October 30, they may wash away old swastikas and reapply them, or include them as part of their rangoli (a traditional art form using dyed powders, rice and grains, or flowers to decorate the ground of courtyards). Often, the swastika is created by artfully arranging diyas (clay lamps).

In 2008, at the second Hindu-Jewish Leadership Summit a resolution formally recognized the long positive history of the swastika

Are you seriously going to argue that the swastika is looked at in this day and age as anything but a symbol to Nazi germany and how they treated the Jews? People look at a swastika and immediately think about how Jews were literally killed for simply being Jewish. I surely must be mis-understanding you. If I’m not mis understanding you and we are going to have an argument about that I literally give up my remaining sliver of faith in humanity.

[TooManyBays]

@Marigold

Sure you can. But it doesn’t mean EN has to print that name on their blog. That’s all they were ever trying to say.

Eh… I think they were trying to start drama for views.
For instance, before the official change many orgs have decided to not call the Washington redskins that. But they didn’t release an article publicly shaming the owner of the team. They just started calling them the Washington football team.

Change is fine. And there are certainly changes that need to be made. But publicly shaming a venue is NOT the way to get change, because no one likes to be called on the carpet. I totally understand why the owner packed up his toys and said he just wouldn’t play anymore. How embarrassing for them! If EN was truly this concerned over the name, they should have privately contacted the venue first to express their concerns.

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

@AffirmedHope

Someone in the Facebook comments mentioned Morvin Park has its cross country course running over the former homes and unmarked graves of slaves. If that’s true, I hope EN plans on using their platform to denounce that event as well. I think galloping horses for competition over GRAVES is much more problematic then the name of a facility that has absolutely no ties to slavery.

It was just a joke about a salad buffet chain.

[AffirmedHope]

@DMK

As long as I have been around and aware of Live Oak, it’s been “Live Oak”… maybe add “Stud”, depending on which part of the very large (and diverse) farm you are talking about and add “International” for the annual event. But on every commercial facing and farm road signage it’s “Live Oak” complete with a picture of a … you guessed it… Live Oak (two guesses on what is found on every square inch of the property). Nobody is competing in an event that is as problematically named as PF (and best as I can tell, no one was asking PF the venue to change it’s name, but rather PF the event). Honestly I do not EVER remember it going by anything but LOS (and LOI) and between growing up in Florida, competing in combined driving and working at racing/breeding farms, Live Oak was somewhat positioned to be on my radar!

Which is all by way of saying it appears Live Oak ditched the plantation portion of the name a very long time ago for a great many aspects of their activities. The original farm name has some historical connections to racing, it was originally founded by P.A.B. Widener, Joseph Widener’s grandson (aka Widener Handicap, owned Belmont, founded Hialeah Racetrack). Maybe the decision to keep the original historical name upon acquisition in '95 was also accompanied by a decision to rebrand as LO and let the back half of the name slip quietly away…

I just saw this. Thank you for the info!

I brought it up because I have seen it referred to as Live Oak International at Live Oak Plantation a recently as last year and in the link I posted it is mentioned.

“In these past four decades, Live Oak Plantation’s distinctive black, red and white silks have become a nationally recognized racing symbol.”

So it’s not a name used often, but it seems to still pop up in the media and by LOS itself occasionally.

[Rnichols]

@enjoytheride

What a half assed apology from EN, throwing the entire blame on the land owners. Based on this not apology it’s pretty clear that they tried to ram rod this down the land owner’s throat and the attack caused him to cancel.

The land owner decided to cancel. Because he “felt” he was called racist (in the official PF post). Let that sink in. He FELT. Not WAS called racist. If I was EN I wouldn’t apologize. They took a stance - why apologize for that?

also want to follow up on how you said the land owner was insulted and people on the internet were attacking him. He pulled the lease before the EN article was published, just so you are aware.

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@Rnichols

Are you seriously going to argue that the swastika is looked at in this day and age as anything but a symbol to Nazi germany and how they treated the Jews? People look at a swastika and immediately think about how Jews were literally killed for simply being Jewish. I surely must be mis-understanding you. If I’m not mis understanding you and we are going to have an argument about that I literally give up my remaining sliver of faith in humanity.

Did you read the link? Have you researched this at all? Do you know any Indian-American (or Indian) folks? It seems like you are suggesting Hindus should not use or display this symbol. That seems very anti-Indian, much like the black students at USC who objected to the utterance of a common Chinese word that happens to sound like a racial slur.

I personally am not Hindu (though we have many in our community), so I have no reason to display the swastika symbol, but I recognize that it is common in Hindu iconography and designs and it would be wrong to demand that it be changed. https://www.newsweek.com/deliveryman-defaces-diwali-decoration-swastika-1468374

[Old_Mac_Donald]

PFEE board members also said EN invoked the threat of mainstream media coverage if the event did not change its name

Anyone else think this is why the LO decided he had had enough? Talk about Big Brass Balls, EN.

So no, EN did not just “ask nicely”. They basically threatened the LO with “trial by media” (if COTH is correct in its reporting), and we all know how well that turns out in this day and age.

Also, random question: if the event in question was one held in another country (Europe, Australasia etc), is the name still offensive? Or is it only offensive to Americans when used IN America?

The US term for raccoons is basically our N word over here. You just don’t call people that here. So it got me wondering about names and context.

[Rnichols]

@Horsegirl's Mom

Did you read the link? Have you researched this at all? Do you know any Indian-American (or Indian) folks? It seems like you are suggesting Hindus should not use or display this symbol. That seems very anti-Indian, much like the black students at USC who objected to the utterance of a common Chinese word that happens to sound like a racial slur.

I personally am not Hindu (though we have many in our community), so I have no reason to display the swastika symbol, but I recognize that it is common in Hindu iconography and designs and it would be wrong to demand that it be changed. https://www.newsweek.com/deliveryman-defaces-diwali-decoration-swastika-1468374

Wow, yup. We are going here. I would say “unreal” but at this point nothing is truly shocking anymore. Rationalizing the use of a swastika - who had that on their 2020 bingo cards?

[Ceffyl_Dwr]

@Rnichols

Wow, yup. We are going here. I would say “unreal” but at this point nothing is truly shocking anymore. Rationalizing the use of a swastika - who had that on their 2020 bingo cards?

Actually, folks from Chicago might recognize it as a peace symbol adorning many of the Pre WW2 apartments buildings and graystones. They’re actually quite common. It’s quite a shock to see at first, but the history and context is quite interesting. Hitler may have co opted a symbol of peace, but that doesn’t mean future generations can’t reclaim it.

[FrittSkritt]

@riderboy

Feelings? That’s the Gold Standard now? Feelings? Well then, how do you think the Walkers felt about being called racists?

For the 9,748th time. NO ONE CALLED THEM RACIST. READ THE ENTIRE GODDAMN ARTICLE.

And we wonder why right wingers base their opinions on what they “heard” instead of “read.” :uhoh:

[Happyhack]

Many people enjoy attending the premier UK horse trials because its a nice day out at a “stately home" - most of which were either built by or accumulated their priceless art collections through the proceeds of slavery overseas.

Will EN be boycotting Badminton from now on? Henry Somerset, first Duke of Beaufort, refashioned Badminton House after obtaining a huge dowry through marrying, in 1682, the daughter of Josiah Child. Child was director of the East India Company and involved in the Caribbean slave trade before co-founding the Royal African Company, which shipped more African slaves to the Americas than any other institution around the globe. Their son Henry Somerset, Duke of Beaufort (1684–1714), was a Lord Proprietor of the Bahamas and of Carolina. Beaufort, South Carolina is named after him, a slave colony.

Just saying…. read more in this epic study on slavery and the British country house, commissioned by English Heritage in 2007 to commemorate the bicentenary of the abolition of the British transatlantic slave tradehttps://historicengland.org.uk/image…try-house-web/ On second thoughts, don’t read more, or you may never wish to set foot on British soil again……

[Albion]

@Horsegirl's Mom

Did you read the link? Have you researched this at all? Do you know any Indian-American (or Indian) folks? It seems like you are suggesting Hindus should not use or display this symbol. That seems very anti-Indian, much like the black students at USC who objected to the utterance of a common Chinese word that happens to sound like a racial slur.

I personally am not Hindu (though we have many in our community), so I have no reason to display the swastika symbol, but I recognize that it is common in Hindu iconography and designs and it would be wrong to demand that it be changed. https://www.newsweek.com/deliveryman-defaces-diwali-decoration-swastika-1468374

First of all, it’s not simply a Hindu symbol. When I lived in Taiwan ~15 years ago, it was common for vegetarian cafeterias (meaning ones run by Buddhists or Daoists) to display a swastika (facing the OTHER way) to signal they were vegetarian. Frankly, it was jarring when I moved there, because a swastika DOES mean a certain thing in Western culture, thanks to WWII. Now, would I confuse your average Daoist, Taiwanese, vegetarian cafeteria owner with a Nazi? No, I would not. However, if said cafeteria owner was spouting white nationalist propaganda & displaying an actual Nazi flag, would I? Yes, of course. As far as I’m aware, plenty of people have been careful about their non-Nazi-related-uses of the swastika in Western countries where the immediate thought - even among reasoned, educated people - is ‘NAZI!’ Seriously, blame the racist eugenicists for casting a taint on the symbol, not quote “woke” unquote people. PS: I’m fluent in Chinese, am a professor, and have issues with how the USC professor was treated.

As for the comment about lovely UK properties like Badminton - yeah, actually, EN should probably also be boycotting them. The Western world needs to come to terms with what colonialism & Western capitalism has wrought. OTOH, who gives a shit about a minor publication about a sport most people don’t care about? We’re all rich people on horses. (yes, I realize that not everyone who has a horse (I live in Montana) or who competes is “rich,” but wow, our discretionary spending is a lot higher than most mere mortals, to say the least.)

[enjoytheride]

@Rnichols

The land owner decided to cancel. Because he “felt” he was called racist (in the official PF post). Let that sink in. He FELT. Not WAS called racist. If I was EN I wouldn’t apologize. They took a stance - why apologize for that?

also want to follow up on how you said the land owner was insulted and people on the internet were attacking him. He pulled the lease before the EN article was published, just so you are aware.

Directly from the OP of this thread

“I think the point about the name was not about this particular farm or the definition, but more about how it can make some people feel, in the time of trying to be inclusive.”

So we care about how POC “feel” about the word plantation, even when the definition or particular farm has nothing to do with slavery, but how the land owner “feels” is irrelevant?

[FrittSkritt]

I’m still in a bit of dismay over some of the ULRs who hve vehemently defended Plantation or [worse], passively defended them by posting photos and mumbling, “It’s just a name that doesn’t allude to THOSE types of plantations! They gave money to inner-city charities!” [aka the “My best friend is black” defense :rolleyes:]

OTOH, Doug Payne’s postings don’t surprise me (the articles questioning the severity of COVID-19 and videos of him riding in a ring at home with the Gadsden flag flapping in the background gives you an indication of where he stands politically), but I’ve seen ULRs quietly upvoting other comments or postings from the over-reactors who are acting like Nutella’s been banned from existence and dogs have been cancelled. :uhoh:

[Texarkana]

@enjoytheride

Directly from the OP of this thread

“I think the point about the name was not about this particular farm or the definition, but more about how it can make some people feel, in the time of trying to be inclusive.”

So we care about how POC “feel” about the word plantation, even when the definition or particular farm has nothing to do with slavery, but how the land owner “feels” is irrelevant?

Do you believe all feelings are of equal merit?

[Highflyer]

@enjoytheride

Directly from the OP of this thread

“I think the point about the name was not about this particular farm or the definition, but more about how it can make some people feel, in the time of trying to be inclusive.”

So we care about how POC “feel” about the word plantation, even when the definition or particular farm has nothing to do with slavery, but how the land owner “feels” is irrelevant?

Well, if plantation is just a word, so is racist.

[riderboy]

@Highflyer

Well, if plantation is just a word, so is racist.

That’s right. A word that has lost all meaning. A clumsy bludgeon used to shame people who are not racists, There is no racism here. None. Zero. A big shout out THANKS to EN and USEA for so thoroughly pissing off Mr Walker, smearing him and his family as racists, and failing to understand that our sport is dependent on the generosity of people like him.