Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[MorganSercu]

@riderboy

Yes, I’d love to know as well. And how Jenni Autry wrote about Plantation Field as “The Best Event Ever” for EN last year to this year’s denunciation of the same Event as scandalously racist - based on the same name.

Actually, that link you posted earlier was to an article written in 2017. Your point still stands, of course!

Best Event Ever: Action Underway at Plantation Field International

Wednesday Video from Kentucky Performance Products: ‘Where the Hell Is It?’

Thursday News & Notes from NupafeedBy Jenni Autry on Sep 13, 2017 6:23 pm - 2,308 views

[Djones]

@OverandOnward

Who “often say racist things in public”? Are you saying the LO is hanging out with people who are openly, publicly, racists? Who?

When did this happen? How often?

How do you know? Where you there? Did you hear this from someone who was there - who?

That is a very serious charge you are making, and it is the first time it’s come up in this thread. Back it up with facts.

Agreed. This is a terrible accusation. To whom are you referring, RTR?

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@atl_hunter

I was thinking more along the lines of WATNA. Either way, it appears to be lost on these folks.

Well… it’s too bad folks didn’t understand this sort of thing a few months ago when they decided to engage with PFEE… and Mr. Walker… who apparently went to law school at U Penn and has a b pretty significant resume for anyone who chooses to do that homework (add that to the homework some folks skipped)

I will only add one more thought… the WATNA is only a WATNA for some folks involved… for the land owner in this situation though, I suspect it actually was a very simple “walk away.” And anyone with an ounce of common sense should and could have thought about that when trying to “negotiate” with him a little earlier on…

[MorganSercu]

@atl_hunter

I was thinking more along the lines of WATNA. Either way, it appears to be lost on these folks.

And no one gave a passing thought to a ZOPA.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MorganSercu

Oh come on site software! Third time is the charm, perhaps?

Originally posted by RacetrackReject View Post
"Yes, I know the farm is still around, but for how long. Those landowners will pass and their kids or grandkids may change the name or sell it for housing developments, or whatever if they have no interest in the farm and there are not contracted events on the land.

I don’t see anything wrong with LOs being able to enjoy their land. You say that like I should be outraged or something, I’m not. Good on them.

There is loss on both sides. Obviously, the LOs wouldn’t have granted this lease for so long if they did not enjoy/get something out of it. I’m sure once they are over their outrage they will feel the loss of the event going extinct too, even though it was their doing. There were options between going nuclear, on both sides, but there were apparently no adults at the table that were able to sit down and discuss things."

I doubt there is loss for the LO. If the land is in the conservancy program - it remains open. If not, they can sell it for BIG bucks. There is no reason to believe that they won’t enjoy that land in any number of ways, but USEA isn’t going to be the beneficiary. It appears USEA needed their property more than the LO needed USEA and whatever tax benefits conferred by the 501c3 (PFEE).

I’m looking at their most recently available 990. Hosting the events may have cost them more than they gained, or it didn’t gain them enough to make this hassle worthwhile to Mr. Walker. That may be another reason why the LO decided they could go find another place to have trials.

Correct. But you already knew all this… you shared with all of us a few interesting links several pages ago about the background of the family, and their philanthropy and commitment to land conservation causes. I meant to say something earlier… but that’s for those links. I found them interesting for sure.

For those of you who didn’t read the links… basically we are talking about a land owner from a family with significant history in this area, especially with respect to fox hunting, steeplechasing, etc etc etc. A family that owns a massive amount of land in an area of the country where that is not easy to do. At all. Unless your grandparents were friends sans contemporaries of people with last names like “DuPont.”

I understand that some folks are very very focused on issues of racial injustice right now, and believe society needs change, and that we should t care about who ones relatives were any
ore or how wealthy they were, or if they were part of old Main Line society, etc…

But you are seriously stupid to go pick a fight in Chester County Pennsylvania unless you actually take the time to do a minimal amount of research about stuff like this.

[RacetrackReject]

@OverandOnward

Who “often say racist things in public”? Are you saying the LO is hanging out with people who are openly, publicly, racists? Who?

When did this happen? How often?

How do you know? Where you there? Did you hear this from someone who was there - who?

That is a very serious charge you are making, and it is the first time it’s come up in this thread. Back it up with facts.

Honestly, it was all there for the world to see until this came story came out. Then it was all quietly deleted or put on lockdown. There are witnesses and screenshots and a few people who did not let the comments slide and have been seen verbally sparing over certain people’s remarks about race and immigration. Pretty sure I saw a post back a few pages eluding to the same thing that I am.

[RacetrackReject]

@MorganSercu

Oh come on site software! Third time is the charm, perhaps?

Originally posted by RacetrackReject View Post
"Yes, I know the farm is still around, but for how long. Those landowners will pass and their kids or grandkids may change the name or sell it for housing developments, or whatever if they have no interest in the farm and there are not contracted events on the land.

I don’t see anything wrong with LOs being able to enjoy their land. You say that like I should be outraged or something, I’m not. Good on them.

There is loss on both sides. Obviously, the LOs wouldn’t have granted this lease for so long if they did not enjoy/get something out of it. I’m sure once they are over their outrage they will feel the loss of the event going extinct too, even though it was their doing. There were options between going nuclear, on both sides, but there were apparently no adults at the table that were able to sit down and discuss things."

I doubt there is loss for the LO. If the land is in the conservancy program - it remains open. If not, they can sell it for BIG bucks. There is no reason to believe that they won’t enjoy that land in any number of ways, but USEA isn’t going to be the beneficiary. It appears USEA needed their property more than the LO needed USEA and whatever tax benefits conferred by the 501c3 (PFEE).

I’m looking at their most recently available 990. Hosting the events may have cost them more than they gained, or it didn’t gain them enough to make this hassle worthwhile to Mr. Walker. That may be another reason why the LO decided they could go find another place to have trials.

I’m not speaking monetarily.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@MorganSercu

And no one gave a passing thought to a ZOPA.

It seems like the brilliant minds at USEA thought they had found a ZOPA when they sent the letter signed by Rob Burke on Sept. 13 to the PFEE folks informing them that USEA would now refer to the event (and by extension Mr. Walker’s property) as P Field in all their official press releases, etc.

And on Sept. 14, Mr. Walker sent them notification of his “Walk Away.”

These people all missed the point either via sheer stupidity, or zealous righteousness, or a combination thereof, that this wasn’t a negotiation.

[ladyj79]

@RacetrackReject

Honestly, it was all there for the world to see until this came story came out. Then it was all quietly deleted or put on lockdown. There are witnesses and screenshots and a few people who did not let the comments slide and have been seen verbally sparing over certain people’s remarks about race and immigration. Pretty sure I saw a post back a few pages eluding to the same thing that I am.

So just vague accusations then? Which is really enough these days isn’t it?

[atl_hunter]

@MorganSercu

And no one gave a passing thought to a ZOPA.

Nope.

I find it funny, however, that people on this thread appeared to have used the Google to determine the cost of a name change rather than looking at the true cost of changing a name and brand. Sure, it can be done for a $100-$500 filing fee, depending on location. Riiiihgt…

Think about that for a minute. If it’s soooo easy to just change a brand, why is it when you change a trainer that your new branded sheets, coolers, trunks, etc… alone cost $2500-$5000?? Because there’s more to it than just changing the name. Why can’t I just pay $100-$500 and all my equipment, monograms and trunks just magically transform into the right colors and name? The Google told me name changes only cost a $100-$500 filing fee! Can’t I believe everything I read on the internet?

I work in marketing, and we changed a small regional product name in a very small, targeted market this year - it was $100,000 altogether to change all assets associated with that name change. Filing the little paper to request the name is the inexpensive part. You still need to research the TMs to ensure you’re not violating anyone’s mark (costly little adventure even if you don’t plan to record your mark), and it’s not like little name changing fairies come in overnight and change everything for you. Name changes take an incredible amount of bandwidth in addition to cost. Every item - from signage to polo shirts, legal documents (if you don’t have in house counsel, that adds up) to all documentation, placements on the web, SoMe channels, educational materials, talk tracks around the name change and employee training are just a FEW of the rather expensive items that are included with a name change. Now, how the heck did EN expect that the name would not only get changed, but also in the timeframe they expected? I cannot imagine the rush fees it would have taken to move such a mountain so quickly.

But hey, Google said it could be done for a few hundred bucks!

[trubandloki]

@ladyj79

So just vague accusations then? Which is really enough these days isn’t it?

Clearly yes. They have a property named plantation so that along with vague accusations is enough to lynch them.

[riderboy]

@Equibrit

You need to be more precise about your use of the word “hunter” ?

And for God’s sake don’t refer to us as “Colonials”…not that you have, but perhaps other Brits might. Very non-PC now.

[OverandOnward]

@Periwinkle

No, because camp is regularly used in contexts other than concentration camps. Summer camp, camping in the woods, campfires at said campsites in the wooded campgrounds. I’ve never heard “plantation” used in a context other than big farms that could only exist because white Europeans kidnapped and enslaved other humans. And yes, I always thought the name Plantation Field was strange and off-putting. I really only see the name when I go to look at live scoring for other events, so I’ve never written any letters about it, but yes, I found it rather cringey.

Now, if someone had a summer camp that worked to improve the focus of kids and called it “Concentration Camp”, yeah, that would not be a good idea. Even though by dictionary definition that term is accurate and it has nothing to do with Nazis or genocide, no one is going to send their kid there. And yes, I’d have some serious questions for anyone who did.

Well said!

And that is true even if the LO has wealth and rights and power second to none, and is also a wonderful human being.

Here is the thing that we MUST come back to, because otherwise , should the event be saved but also retain the name “Plantation”, at some point we are going to be right back here in this same conversation. And maybe an even bigger firestorm once the outside media does jump in with “rich white people riding horses on a plantation” articles.

The name is a problem, regardless of how it was given. It doesn’t matter that on this farm it has a rich clean history. Unfortunately that does not take the stink off of it outside of Pennsylvania.

The name “Plantation” is damn insensitive to the message we may be sending in a sport this white, in spite of all the good intentions behind it.

The sponsors may not be rumbling now, but it’s coming. The outside attention is coming. The wise course is to get in front of it right now and avoid a preventable collision. Especially a conflict that does not reflect the true attitudes of participants in a sport that does want to welcome all comers. (I hope – sometimes I wonder about that.)

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@trubandloki

Clearly yes. They have a property named plantation so that along with vague accusations is enough to lynch them.

You can’t accuse EN of trying to “lynch” Mr. Glaccum or the land owner…

that’s too racially charged, and people can’t handle that sort of talk anymore.

But yes… if we are going to be honest about this whole thing, and speak the way some people used to speak when arguing about stuff… a few folks at EN with REALLY strong opinions that are to the far left side of the political spectrum when it comes to the topic of racial injustice in the US decided they wanted to lock horns with Mr. Glaccum (who is the major personality behind PFEE in particular)…

Gee… I wonder why. They can say it was all about the name of this venue… but then why are we hearing about certain people’s Facebook posts, etc. If this was truly about venues being insensitive…

EN would have focused their efforts on Morven Park. They haven’t. They’ve said not one single word about that venue.

The whole thing has ended very very poorly.

[riderboy]

@OverandOnward

Well said!

And that is true even if the LO has wealth and rights and power second to none, and is also a wonderful human being.

Here is the thing that we MUST come back to, because otherwise , should the event be saved but also retain the name “Plantation”, at some point we are going to be right back here in this same conversation. And maybe an even bigger firestorm once the outside media does jump in with “rich white people riding horses on a plantation” articles.

The name is a problem, regardless of how it was given. It doesn’t matter that on this farm it has a rich clean history. Unfortunately that does not take the stink off of it outside of Pennsylvania.

The name “Plantation” is damn insensitive to the message we may be sending in a sport this white, in spite of all the good intentions behind it.

The sponsors may not be rumbling now, but it’s coming. The outside attention is coming. The wise course is to get in front of it right now and avoid a preventable collision. Especially a conflict that does not reflect the true attitudes of participants in a sport that does want to welcome all comers. (I hope – sometimes I wonder about that.)

This is a solution in search of a problem. There is no racism here, there never has been. No discrimination, no exclusion, no Civil Rights violations. Nothing. Anyone who thinks that all Plantations refer to Confederate slave farms of the 19th century is wrong. If we have to be told we should be offended then perhaps the case for the language police is quite weak I don’t care how much yelling and screaming takes place. Morven, Pine Top and dare I say Badminton are all places with actual ties to slavery. What about them? It’s a stupid, contrived and divisive hill to die on.

[OverandOnward]

@riderboy

My, my, my…2019

https://eventingnation.com/best-even…international/

Here’s a thought that is too crazy given what is going on now … when I have seen these features on EN in the past, I thought it meant that EN was buying into the name ‘Plantation’, too. Another raised eyebrow - and private question “is eventing/h/j/e really intentionally such a white sport?”. I wondered if possibly h/j/e/eventing actually was kind of waving off riders of color, if not intentionally, then through the absolute blindness to the message of that name.

I’ve been glad to learn through EN’s features from riders of color that at least some have felt welcome. But unfortunately their good experiences haven’t been universal.

One of the reasons that eventing isn’t getting broader feedback from POC is because there are so very few in eventing. Why?

This stereotype that black people don’t do horses is not true. Where I live, I am surrounded by black horse owners riding their horses – although usually not where white people see it much. I could point you up country roads to black-owned farms with horses that have never seen a white person. Across the country there are many localized black horse people’s associations. Hey did you know there is even a Black Cowboys association of New York City ??
https://bpcca.com/
https://www.pinterest.com/blackcowboys/oakland-black-cowboy-association/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Federation_of_Black_Cowboys

There are accomplished riders and professional trainers among the riders of color, mostly Western disciplines. They try different things as all horse people do, and some do Western dressage. IMO many would enjoy jumping (obviously some do and are in the sport), would get a big kick out of eventing and find it an interesting sport. Why are so few riders of color taking a look at eventing as a fun sport they might try?

Riders of color can give their own answers as to why they have not put a foot into h/j/e and eventing. There are all kinds of individual reasons, but I am certain that one big one is: At least some, and maybe a good many, are not sure of their welcome in such a white sport.

I want to recruit, invite black riders in my local area into this sport. Give a chance to try it, and maybe some will be interested enough to get into it. But I hesitate because I’m also not sure of their welcome, generally. I wish I didn’t have that hesitation, but I do. I wish I felt more sure that I wouldn’t be letting them in for a hurtful, disappointing experience once they get out to horse trials.

There is one event in this area that regularly has Hispanic and a handful of black riders on the entry list. But elsewhere – can I be sure of their welcome, when there are such mixed messages going around? I want to think that all riders will be welcome everywhere based on their horsemanship, but honestly, I don’t know. ‘Plantation’ up on one of the country’s nicest events isn’t helping. Will black riders and their accompanying families get the side-eye from some white people? Unpleasant remarks? Or no one speaks to them at all? Be ignored in the line for concessions or registration? I want to think “no of course not”, but honestly this sport can give some mixed signals sometimes.

So there is a message, intentional or unintentional, when an almost all-white sport puts the name “Plantation” on a large public event. It may be unintended, it may have only great local history behind it. But the message is there and being perceived, nonetheless.

[OverandOnward]

@riderboy

This is a solution in search of a problem. There is no racism here, there never has been. No discrimination, no exclusion, no Civil Rights violations. Nothing. Anyone who thinks that all Plantations refer to Confederate slave farms of the 19th century is wrong. If we have to be told we should be offended then perhaps the case for the language police is quite weak I don’t care how much yelling and screaming takes place. Morven, Pine Top and dare I say Badminton are all places with actual ties to slavery. What about them? It’s a stupid, contrived and divisive hill to die on.

Uh … do you ever talk to people of color? :winkgrin: :lol:

[Djones]

@OverandOnward

Well said!

And that is true even if the LO has wealth and rights and power second to none, and is also a wonderful human being.

Here is the thing that we MUST come back to, because otherwise , should the event be saved but also retain the name “Plantation”, at some point we are going to be right back here in this same conversation. And maybe an even bigger firestorm once the outside media does jump in with “rich white people riding horses on a plantation” articles.

The name is a problem, regardless of how it was given. It doesn’t matter that on this farm it has a rich clean history. Unfortunately that does not take the stink off of it outside of Pennsylvania.

The name “Plantation” is damn insensitive to the message we may be sending in a sport this white, in spite of all the good intentions behind it.

The sponsors may not be rumbling now, but it’s coming. The outside attention is coming. The wise course is to get in front of it right now and avoid a preventable collision. Especially a conflict that does not reflect the true attitudes of participants in a sport that does want to welcome all comers. (I hope – sometimes I wonder about that.)

The bolded above is your opinion, not a fact. Google ‘pine plantation’ and you’ll find that word all over the place, it’s not a problem word.

The horse has left the barn, there’s no ‘wise course’ to worry about. It’s over.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@riderboy

This is a solution in search of a problem. There is no racism here, there never has been. No discrimination, no exclusion, no Civil Rights violations. Nothing. Anyone who thinks that all Plantations refer to Confederate slave farms of the 19th century is wrong. If we have to be told we should be offended then perhaps the case for the language police is quite weak I don’t care how much yelling and screaming takes place. Morven, Pine Top and dare I say Badminton are all places with actual ties to slavery. What about them? It’s a stupid, contrived and divisive hill to die on.

EXACTLY.

I don’t know Pine Top’s full history…

but the crickets about Morven from all these people lecturing everyone else on racial sensitivity and optics in our predominantly white, elitist sport?

The crickets are DEAFENING.

It’s about the politics of everyone who decided to get into a fight over this issue. One side… who had ZERO leverage to force their will, other than the power of the press in terms of their own outlet, and the threat of trying to draw in other outlets to “cover” the “insensitive racial issue” they have discovered in the sport of eventing, decided they could tell the other side how things were supposed to be in terms of this event from here on out,

because they believed they were “on the correct side.”

The other parties said, “that’s not how this is going to work.” The other parties had all the leverage. And also are convinced they are on the “correct” side of this issue.

The side with more leverage prevailed. But the fight was so ugly and rude, it pi$$ed off a key benefactor and longtime supporter of the sport, and now the whole venue is lost for good.

This is what will happen again and again if people can’t learn to speak politely and respectfully to those who have different opinions than their own, and it will really hurt the sport.

STOP. Just STOP.

[Xctrygirl]

From The New York Times in July

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/11/us/plantation-fl-rhode-island.html

Em