you are the exception not the norm. EN has given Eventing a huge following, popularity and helped grow the sport immensely. This includes making several riders extremely famous and having huge fan base of kids who want to event.
it would be extremely stupid for riders and us event lovers to deny and ignore this.
Well, I see this thread has managed to turn into the usual head meets wall. Complete with writing critiques! Virginia Horse Mom and several others on all sides, thank you for the insights! Off to fix a gate on my super duper uber white privilege place 
I still maintain that the horse world in general, and eventing in particular, needs to take a long hard look at how it works with and treats landowners, organizers, and volunteers. The horse world could probably learn alot from that great bastion of âwhite privilegeâ which is the hunting world, especially how organizations like Ducks Unlimited and Trout Unlimited work to conserve natural lands, open space, AND access. Along with organizations such as the Nature Conservancy, which does manage to bring both the woke and the working landowner together at the table at least at times.
But, I bet they wonât. At least judging by what I am seeing now.
I donât think anyone would deny that historically, SOME white males in our society have had privilege (I think itâs a tough slog to argue that a retired coal miner from Appalachia with black lung benefitted from white male privilege, but perhaps we can agree to disagree on that).
But the issue here is whether the existence of white privilege automatically renders the landownerâs opinion invalid. Yes, black people (or more accurately white people purporting to speak for them) have raised the concern that âplantationâ reminds some people of slavery. Meanwhile the landowner has competing concerns that have to do with honoring his grandfather and, as some have suggested, the expense of changing the name (which someone on this thread calculated would dwarf the assets of the non-profit that runs the event). The landownerâs concerns shouldnât be just thrown out the window because he happens to be white.
@Horsegirlâs Mom
" (I think itâs a tough slog to argue that a retired coal miner from Appalachia with black lung benefitted from white male privilege, but perhaps we can agree to disagree on that). "
Sadly, even there racial bias and outright racism was common. Being a Black coal miner in Appalachia meant you got paid less and often the worst tasks.
The 1987 book by Ronald L. Lewis went into great detail regarding this topic.
Here is a snippet from another source published in 2019 regarding Black coal miners in WV,
âBy 1917, one in every three miners working in the Pocahontas Field were black, the majority of whom worked the hardest, worst-paying jobs of loader and laborer: digging, loading, and hauling the coal in dangerous underground conditions. In the 1921 report from the West Virginia Bureau of Negro Welfare and Statistics, only 231 of the nearly 6,500 blacks employed in the industry worked higher-paying skilled jobs and a paltry seven were foremen. Though in many ways the opportunities afforded to black workers in the coalfields were greater than work in the Deep South, inequality and discrimination still permeated the workplace.â
Coal mining was hardly egalitarian and more than a handful were not White.
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" (I think itâs a tough slog to argue that a retired coal miner from Appalachia with black lung benefitted from white male privilege, but perhaps we can agree to disagree on that). "
Sadly, even there racial bias and outright racism was common. Being a Black coal miner in Appalachia meant you got paid less and often the worst tasks.
The 1987 book by Ronald L. Lewis went into great detail regarding this topic.
Here is a snippet from another source published in 2019 regarding Black coal miners in WV,
âBy 1917, one in every three miners working in the Pocahontas Field were black, the majority of whom worked the hardest, worst-paying jobs of loader and laborer: digging, loading, and hauling the coal in dangerous underground conditions. In the 1921 report from the West Virginia Bureau of Negro Welfare and Statistics, only 231 of the nearly 6,500 blacks employed in the industry worked higher-paying skilled jobs and a paltry seven were foremen. Though in many ways the opportunities afforded to black workers in the coalfields were greater than work in the Deep South, inequality and discrimination still permeated the workplace.â
https://expatalachians.com/black-coaâŠern-coalfields
Coal mining was hardly egalitarian and more than a handful were not White.
The way you have chosen to speak about white privilege, in the way you have chosen to speak about it, is something I can wholeheartedly agree with
As for the USEA, I donât know how exactly they went about investigating the issue of complaints with respect to Plantation Field. Just the both HorseSport and HoDV have reported that it was investigated, and only two people were identified as having a specific objection to that venueâs name. And neither apparently live in area II. I donât know if it was a survey or what though.
A further datapoint wort considering is that the area II chair has publicly stated she has never gotten a complaint about the name of the event.
And just for the sake of repetition, in case it was lost in one of my admittedly long posts, or people come to the discussion late⊠Everyone involved seems to agree that it was Leslie Wiley from Eventing Nation who first spoke up about the need for a change to this venueâs name. And she reached out to a USEF and USEA first. Then an investigation was done to find out if anyone was offended.
Criticizing someoneâs writing style on a bulletin board when that person didnât ask for feedback is just rude. And then going on and on with it is ruder still.
OK folks, though I appreciate support some have offered to me after getting myself into a bit of âback and forthâ with others on this threadâŠ
I want to take responsibility for my role in it, and just say Iâm sorry for being snide, engaging in mocking type posts, and digging my heels in and arguing with others, and taking some posts that have been pointed in my direction very personally.
It just wrecks the discussion for everyone when we go there. And I have indeed gone there multiple times ok this thread. I will do my best to knock it off going forward. Although I do still enjoy witty humor, and likely will engage in it a bit of the opportunity arises during the course of this discussion.
@ladyj79 has an academic background, I believe. And I admittedly always enjoy it when she starts quoting stuff on one of these threads Sheâs truly a brilliant person, in my opinion, and I canât resist deciding what it is she says, and trying to play along and quote back at her.
But Iâm sorry if some of the rest of you are annoyed by this.
As for my use of quotes and terms in the context of this discussion like âactivist agendaâÂ, âwhite privilegeâ and âsocial justice warriorâÂ⊠Iâm sorry if that offended and upset some of you. I am going to be brave right now, and out something on the COTH forums that honestly caught many posters I had always been friendly with by surprise several months ago when I made a poor decision and decided to participate in a current events thread about masks. I am philosophically and ideologically to the right of center of many many subjects in real life.
People seemed to be upset by this when they caught on to it in the context of a Covid mask thread. And they seemed to feel mislead and betrayed, because I have participated extensively on Safe Sport topics, and am a staunch supporter of Safe Sport.
And so, here we are. I donât actually want to continue arguing about stuff that is truly mostly political in nature with others on this thread. We will just get mad at one another, and decide we really donât like each other, and stop listening to anything the other side has to say.
So I will knock it off.
And I hope others will join me in knocking it off, and the discussion can now just move forward.
Peace everyone. My apologies if this post is too long, or riddled with typos. And my intention right now is not to come off as arrogant, but to be conciliatory. If I have failed at that⊠well⊠it wouldnât be a first :lol::o
I have to say I highly enjoy your posts ( ALL) in this thread. Where I sometimes lack eloquence in my thoughts when Iâm angry, youâve been able to keep the decorum in your posts and intelligence. Itâs the people with opposing views, or woke status who have a problem. I love how the majority of woke people are mostly white women ( a few men) who like to lecture everyone on what is racist/ white privileged and how we should be ashamed for the color of our skin ( racism against white people for being white). Iâm not going to be ashamed or made to feel bad because I was born with white skin. But I also donât make anybody feel bad for the color of the skin. And why are we using the term BIPOC When many POC hate the term and have said they prefer to be called black, not African American or POC, but black.
Thank you for the positive feedback. It is appreciated.
As for the term BIPOC, I sometimes use it, and sometimes donât. I have also heard directly from many folks who are black and a one who is actually Native American, that they think itâs a really weird term. But it seems to be widely accepted these dayâs that use of that term indicates a conscious attempt to be sensitive when talking about other people⊠so sometimes I use it.
I will take this moment to mention one other point⊠that will probably get me into trouble⊠it hey⊠it is what it is. Might as well just be honestâŠ
Does anyone else find the fact that Hispanic equestrians are ignored in the context of this discussion and others sort of odd and perplexing? This topic is about eventing⊠but back awhile ago when similar editorials were circulating in other equestrian publications over the summer about race and inclusivity and sensitivity in sport⊠I found it odd that the focus was on BIPOC. I have some acquaintances who are deeply involved in the hunter community in particular, and who consider themselves very socially conscious and sensitive and caring. One of them was having trouble finding part time labor, which was going to involve some horse management and grooming responsibilities for her personal farm a little while back, and I suggested she actually look into hiring someone who was young and local and coming out of a working student program for an eventer. Because they probably could use free board for their horse, and would likely be a hard worker and have pretty solid horse management skills⊠and her response to me was, âThanks for the suggestion, but what I really want is a good Mexican, just like most of the other top hunter barns have.âÂ
I was shocked.
I know for a fact she is not a consciously racist or discriminatory person, and I also know she is a proud supporter of BLM. And hates the orange man, and loves her sport. And wants it to be more diverse and welcoming towards everyone. But clearly⊠she has a bit of a blind spot of some sort going on.
Iâm kind of curious⊠what do others think of that story? Iâm actually curious about the opinion of people who do believe in living life while remaining cognizant of their own white privileged, who care about diversity in equestrian sports, who support BLM, etc. What do you make of the hunter personâs comment about finding Mexican labor?
Itâs a 100% true story. And for the record⊠the person who said that is not a conscious racist in my opinion. She tries hard to be a good person. But she is admittedly quite a difficult to get along with sort of horse person at times. My response, in the moment, was just to look at her and say, âOh. I see. Well, I donât know how to help you with that. I just think a poor working student in need of free board for their horse coming out of a decent program might be a great option for you.âÂ
I didnât tell her she sounded like a total elitist bigot at the time, because it would have led to a fight. And I didnât want to fight with her. But I did think she sounded like an elitist bigot. And it made me wonder if she was looking for undocumented labor in particular⊠to keep her costs down. And I have a BIG opinion on that. I think itâs unfair and wrong sbd abusive to use undocumented labor in the horse industry to suppress wages.
But I digress. And have rambled. Carry on folks
I have many, many, many words about the treatment of grooms and stable hands, particularly those who are minorities and/or immigrants.
Very, very few of those words are kind, and usually the people who are the very worst offenders are educated professional white women who view themselves as incredibly socially conscious.
It is vomitous.
I have also heard trainers say that, and Iâve heard other trainers say of particular clients âshe treats me like Iâm a Mexican.â
The gross hypocrisy makes my head explode.
FWIW in Europe, itâs now the Poles, or as my Polish groom friend and I would jokingly say, the Mexicans of Europe. Poles do not have the same right of movement as most if Western Europe, and so are absolutely taken advantage of as transitory and expendable labour.
I hate everyone.
I want to take a moment to note something to anyone else still following this thread⊠just in case they arenât checking Eventing Nationâs site any more. Which I understand.
There is no coverage on their site about Middleburg Horse Trials. It ran this weekend. Maybe they just skipped it. Or⊠maybe someone in area II told them they didnât want EN to cover anything to do with that competition. Because itâs not just Boyd who is upset with EN right now, and pushing back hard.
Well, it just goes to show, as we were discussing earlier, all animals are equal. Except for some animals, who are more equal than others. Especially during an election year. When media outlets are trying to capitalize on a hot button issue, and both gain clicks by talking about it, and rally the base of specific segments of the population who make up their base in order to get out the vote.
I truly dislike this sort of thing, when both sides engage in it on consequential issues. And I get exceptionally frustrated when people with strong beliefs on one side or the other get roped into it all, and then start attacking other folks and claiming to have the moral high ground.
Sometimes I think the attacks are a matter of people having sincerely held ideals, and just getting swept up in the moment. But Iâm deeply distrustful of some of the underlying dynamics involved with the media these days, and feel itâs a huge factor in our society tearing itself apart.
And this, I am greatly distressed by this Plantation Field episode, and the sport of eventing, because I think it is truly a bit of an issue of certain media tactics making their way into our sport, with timing that neatly coincides with a national focus on the BLM movement.
But I am profoundly cynical about almost everything and everyone these days. Except for the family dog. I trust her, and am positive she is pure of heart. Sheâs a Labrador retriever.
Thank you for saying that.
I donât consider myself a âwokeâ person tbh (or someone who gets offended easily), some of the stuff I see I do think is ridiculous and snowflakey. But the hate-on I have been seeing towards EN, specifically LW, really bothers me because I do think she had the right idea. And seeing people mock other people that agree with that sentiment and calling them woke social justice warriors, which is very much intended as a smug derisive insult, just seems so wrong in this situation.
By all means, discuss what could have been done to get a better response, or what can be done in the future if there are any other attempts like this. I have no issue with people saying they went about it wrong. Iâm not convinced anything would have changed the outcome, but maybe it would have.
But the attacking of people that genuinely care about how others are affected by something (and have said they are affected) and want to do SOMETHING to affect change is disturbing to me. And the claim that itâs all white people that have just assumed it bothers POC but havenât actually talked to any is just plain wrong. Not to mention you can go on any SM platform and look at comments and see POC riders and parents of riders chiming in with how uncomfortable the name has made them, how disappointed they are by the snubbing of (mostly white) people in charge.
Just please try to keep the âwoke SJWâ comments at least to yourself. This really isnât a random white person deciding to be an activist for the rep, even if it started that way (though not convinced it did). This is a large group of people that are really bothered by not only the name of this place, but now also the reactions of people saying what they think and feel doesnât matter. And seeing it from their heroes, no less. And no, Iâm not talking about us white âactivistsâ.
The people that went after you for long posts, that was too harsh too. The attacking on both sides needs to cool it. I donât think you guys that are âsidingâ, so to speak, with the LO are bad, racist people at all. And I agree on some points. I just think the better way to say it would be something like âTheir hearts were in the right place but execution was lackingâ instead of âomg EN is evil and everyone should boycott them and they suck and I hate themâ. For the ones that do agree with the sentiment, anyways. The ones that think all of this is just stupid, we will have to agree to disagree on that and you can ignore everything I just said since it wonât matter to you anyways :lol:
From the Boyd Martin post on FB, my understanding is that Middleburg HT asked EN not to show up.
Well thank you for engaging, and your attempt at reflection, and explaining where you are coming from.
And I will commit that much harder to drop the use of the term âwokeâ and âsocial justice warriorâ and even just âactivistâ from all of my discussions on this topic, from here on out. Both on the forums, and on other SoMe platforms, and in real life. Because of the way chose to engage with me.
And thatâs a good example I guess of how we can all start doing better when talking to one another. Iâm willing, and will try and step up when others approach me in kind.
As for demonizing LW, etc, I can understand how you might perceive it as overboard and unfair. I am privy to some information that I hAve not shared on these forums, and it does color my personal judgement. And bothers me a bit on this whole thing. But I will try harder to better manage myself and my posts in the context of this discussion. Thatâs fair.
Any thoughts on the issue of the hispanic/Latino population in our country with respect to a number of horse sports, and the curious lack of discussion right now about elitism, bigotry, insensitivity and frankly significant systemic inequity issues with respect to their role in various horse sports?
Just curious. Iâm not trying to be a jerk or bait you. But it does seriously seem bizarre to me that this isnât a discussion we are all also having⊠:sigh:
But part of it is that so many folks like cheap labor⊠and often that means undocumented labor⊠and horse sports are expensive⊠and people like to sweep that issue under the rug. And I think thatâs a terrible thing. Just my opinion.
VHM â I completely agree about how the latinos/as have been treated in the horse business. That has burned me for years.
Iâm puzzled by why you hold HoDV up as a journalistic source on par with COTH. I have been rather unimpressed by their coverage of a number of issues including their anti-SafeSport stance with respect to the GM ban and the seeming lack of any background research on the cancellation of the Princeton Show Jumping fall shows. In the latter case they claim the local government is attacking equestrian events when basic research into public records shows the managementâs failure to comply with longstanding requirements for the use of preserved land. From what I have seen of them, they seem prone to hyperbole and passing off editorial pieces as factual news. What criteria are you using to determine their journalistic credibility?
I was surprised to find this still so active, so popped back in to look around. As someone a bit removed from the situation (and who has no vested interest in the outcome, the players involved, etc) Iâll chime in. Ignore it if you want - I certainly wonât lose sleep over it.
I read a comment that this up and coming generation was taught to stand up, take a stand, etc. (So were previous generations - youâre not special) No one is telling younger people to shut up and sit down and eat your meat or you wonât get any pudding.
But there are ways to broach difficult subjects - you donât get to just decide one day youâre going to get into someoneâs face. First - you actually donât have the right to dictate to other people. Second, itâs a good way to get punched in the nose (probably why there are so many âbraveâ people on the internet) Third - what makes you think you are right? Just by deciding that your opinion is the only right one and there is no possibility you could be wrong, everyone else is wrong but you doesnât actually make you right. Really. Itâs a great big world out there and incredibly rich in diversity of thought, experience, and perspective. Overlapped with different generations, ethnic makeup, nationalities, and genetics. But it seems there is this tendency to think there can be only one possible worldview. Thatâs very narrow minded, dangerous thinking. Itâs also infantile.
I was actually appalled by the actions of EN and their journalist. Because what they did was unethical. Yes, at the end of the day they acted unethically. Not because they arenât entitled to an opinion (of course they are) but because this publication and its employee decided to abdicate their responsibilities as journalists - and go on a PERSONAL attack against a landowner and a nonprofit. You donât actually get to do that - or - if you do - donât be surprised if youâre out of business. What people do on their own time is one thing. Iâve certainly written scathing letters to the editor, picketed, and protested.
But what I didnât do is use my employment as a cover to further a personal agenda. Unfortunately, this appears to more of a personal crusade than a professional one to EN. If I was the owner of EN, and this journalist was my employee, Iâd fire her.
Social activism is a wonderful thing. To use our words and actions to uplift others, to identify problems in our society and propose solutions. But you also have to acknowledge that engaging in figurative or literal destruction doesnât actually accomplish anything. As we see here.
To assert that anyone who doesnât fall on their knees and beg to whoever is making a demand of them is actually entitled, privileged, and selfish doesnât follow. Quite the opposite. As Iâve written before - the landowner does not owe you anything. None of you. Thatâs not white male privilege. Thatâs not classism, narcissism, or any other ism. He owns the land and you were his guests. You acted like jerks. He was harassed and a âjournalistâ targeted him. Thereâs an easy way to fix that. He asked you to leave. From his perspective, the problem is solved. Which is true.
That isnât a white male right - that is a right all of us have. And if youâre not careful - more landowners, sponsors, and organizers will exercise that right.
Itâs called consequences.
I wish you could read these posts from a more nuanced perspective. Do you realize that instead of old labels to identify minorities - youâve just come up with new ones? Did you ever think to refer to your fellow human beings as just that? No - you have to stick them in a box and label them. In point of fact - by labeling them you diminish them as human beings. Theyâre just an acronym. A âgroupâ. How dehumanizing. And you pretend to know all about this âgroupâ as if these human beings are not entitled to diverse experiences and opinions?
Are you truly concerned about being inclusive? Because it doesnât sound like it. From what Iâve read it sounds like some of you are trying to outdo each other on how âwokeâ you are. Using the latest buzzwords and acronyms. Frankly - the way I see minority groups being used in this way - I donât blame them for not getting involved in eventing.
I can think of other horse sports that are more diverse and inclusive. Much more. Maybe the problem isnât the name of this venue. Maybe the problem is that many of the personalities in this sport are rich white women worrying about where theyâll find a âMexicanâ as a laborer. But only if heâs illegal that way you donât have to pay him much.
Lots of luck with the future of eventing. Youâre losing access to land, your horses and many riders are killed or severely injured, animal rights activists would shoot you as much as look at you, you canât manage to talk about expanding the sport without using dehumanizing language, and youâve managed to piss off some of the most influential and dedicated supporters.
May I suggest that is not a winning strategy?
Well you completely missed the entire point of what I was saying. Way to go.
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