Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[Djones]

Three suggestions for those who want to understand how to be more influential. [LIST=1]

Sign up for the free Program on Negotiation newsletters and such from the Harvard School of Business. There are piles of downloads and articles to help broaden your perspective. You'll also learn what the heck a BATNA is, which is kind of important.

Read "Crucial Conversations." You can find it anywhere books are sold.

Consider this book and/or try to join Monday's zoom webinar. James Baker ran Washington and theres a TON to learn here, good and bad. https://fb.me/e/7JaWuVomI [/LIST] I hope those who continue to be confused and mystified by "our" criticism of Leslie's approach will invest a bit of time in understanding where we are coming from in our assessments and critiques. I'm not an eventer, never will be. I am a longtime horse woman and fan of the sport, and I hope in the long run this unfortunate set of events might be put behind us and the Best Event Ever will be hosted again at Plantation Field.

[OverandOnward]

@ladyj79

you like to conflate and oversimplify things and draw connections that exist exclusively in the mind of those who are ignorant and thus who tend to conflate and oversimplify.

@ladyj79

Your unwarranted attacks are noted, as are your repeated efforts to sow discord and create controversy where none exists–based on ignorance of what words mean.

@ladyj79

…. Also I don’t feel the need to keep beating my head against the stone wall that is wanton ignorance. I have to get paid to do that long term :lol:

@ladyj79

The idea should be for people to be more educated and nuanced thinkers, not less.

Please for the love of god and all that is holy, be on the side of becoming a more educated and nuanced thinker.

@ladyj79

Draw the line at increasing your own education and capacity for nuanced thought so that you are never advocating for the destruction of clear and precise and completely morally neutral language.

@ladyj79

The answer should always be more education, more knowledge, more nuance.

But that’s hard.

I know why they do what they do, and it’s easy, because knowledge and understanding are hard, soundbites and bumper stickers are easy.

@ladyj79
You say ugly things to people with your elegant words.

I think everyone understands by now that all those who have a different perspective than you do on the Walker-Glaccum situation are unworthy dolts in your eyes. But of course, continue making the point and mischaracterizing what they say, if you think that is moving the discussion forward.

[ladyj79]

@OverandOnward

@ladyj79
You say ugly things to people with your elegant words.

I think everyone understands by now that all those who have a different perspective than you do on the Walker-Glaccum situation are unworthy dolts in your eyes. But of course, continue making the point and mischaracterizing what they say, if you think that is moving the discussion forward.

What an expense of time.

Imagine the things you could have done instead.

Is there an appropriate amount of engagement on the thread, do you think?

[Djones]

@OverandOnward

@ladyj79
You say ugly things to people with your elegant words.

I think everyone understands by now that all those who have a different perspective than you do on the Walker-Glaccum situation are unworthy dolts in your eyes. But of course, continue making the point and mischaracterizing what they say, if you think that is moving the discussion forward.

She’s not wrong about learning the nuances of language (bitch vs. bitch, plantation vs. Plantation) and learning how to be more effective rather than reactive. Sure, there’s some petty mess in there too, and that’s not ideal. Again, people are just people.

I thought about another problem word. BOY. Calling a black man boy is one of the rudest, craziest, hateful, most racist things one can do. So you’d better not call out “come here, boy” at the dog park, or say “good boy!” to your horse for a good effort. Someone, somewhere, might have an issue.

[pluvinel]

@Djones

She’s not wrong about learning the nuances of language (bitch vs. bitch, plantation vs. Plantation) and learning how to be more effective rather than reactive. Sure, there’s some petty mess in there too, and that’s not ideal. Again, people are just people.

I thought about another problem word. BOY. Calling a black man boy is one of the rudest, craziest, hateful, most racist things one can do. So you’d better not call out “come here, boy” at the dog park, or say “good boy!” to your horse for a good effort. Someone, somewhere, might have an issue.

[video=youtube_share;0NGlmFlcSR8]https://youtu.be/0NGlmFlcSR8[/video]

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Hey you kids! I’ll turn this car around !

[anon6923113]

@OverandOnward

@ladyj79
You say ugly things to people with your elegant words.

I think everyone understands by now that all those who have a different perspective than you do on the Walker-Glaccum situation are unworthy dolts in your eyes. But of course, continue making the point and mischaracterizing what they say, if you think that is moving the discussion forward.

C’mon now. I seem to recollect Albion, who has an academic background, taking hard shots at myself s d others as this thread went on, criticizing writing styles and calling comments stupid.

Did you criticize her, or take her to task for mischaracterizing other’s words, or degrading the ability of all of us to engage in discussion?

We are all human beings. Nobody is perfect. Plenty of folks who have participated on this thread have gone overboard at various times during the discussion. How many have owned that, and tried to rein themselves in, and reengage with those who hold an opposing view in a more thoughtful and less combative manner, in the interest of a productive discussion?

Only a handful.

[DownYonder]

@Djones

She’s not wrong about learning the nuances of language (bitch vs. bitch, plantation vs. Plantation) and learning how to be more effective rather than reactive. Sure, there’s some petty mess in there too, and that’s not ideal. Again, people are just people.

I thought about another problem word. BOY. Calling a black man boy is one of the rudest, craziest, hateful, most racist things one can do. So you’d better not call out “come here, boy” at the dog park, or say “good boy!” to your horse for a good effort. Someone, somewhere, might have an issue.

Also better stop saying lunge whip and dressage whip. And don’t ever mention the curb chain on your double bridle or the safety chains on your trailer hitch. Don’t talk about your cotton saddle pad or the cabin you stayed in on your last vacation or the rice you had for dinner last night. 'Cause words like that could, you know, be a trigger for someone looking for something to be offended by. :lol:

[Djones]

If anyone mentions okra, I’ll die.

[anon6923113]

@DownYonder - that’s your white privilege talking.

You don’t get to decide what other people should or shouldn’t be offended by. Words that have multiple definitions and uses… well… under the new rules, we don’t get to consider that anymore. Nor do we get to look at the context in which a word is used, and think about it. Nor do we look at the person who used the word, and think about their history of actions over the course of a lifetime. Such as if they have been an employer with no history of discriminatory hiring and employment practices… or whether or not they’ve given to non profit causes that have helped disadvantaged people in minority communities.

We don’t think about any of those things anymore.

Nope. No nuanced consideration allowed. Just immediate judgement.

The new rules are… if someone uses a word that MIGHT have an offensive meaning, and someone else objects or takes offense… the first person MUST stop using the word. Or… be publicly tarred and feathered and labeled a racist.

Uh oh… my guess is I will now be called a racist for using the phrase “tarred and feathered.” I will take a moment to attempt to preemptively defend myself, by informing my inevitable accusers of the origins of the phrase:

Tarring and feathering is a form of public humiliation and punishment used to enforce unofficial justice or revenge. It was used in feudal Europe and its colonies in the early modern period, as well as the early American frontier, mostly as a type of mob vengeance.

So there are the factual origins of the phrase. But… I fully realize that some folks don’t care about the real history of places, or the real origins of names, or the real origins of common phrases. They only care about how some people MIGHT interpret certain phrases at this point in time… and they FIRMLY believe in the suppression of speech, even when it’s an issue of misinterpretation of that speech, and ignorance with respect t to the true origin of certain phrases. And anyone who isn’t willing to meekly self censor, even in instances when the Censors are guilty of misinterpretation and outright ignorance?

Well… the righteous censors, who ironically consider themselves wise, compassionate and liberal… well… they will come after you, and try and force you into only using the words they THINK you should use. Period. Because they have no tolerance for any sort of disagreement or debate when it comes to the new rules they think everyone should live by.

It’s an odd world we live in right now.

[anon6923113]

@Djones

If anyone mentions okra, I’ll die.

Can we still share okra recipes? Is that allowed? Or am I somehow guilty of cultural appropriation if I attempt to cook okra in 2020?

[MorganSercu]

So, what was the ballpark figure for a similar venue, total? If a few tons of money fell out of the sky and it could be magically made to appear? 50 million, total (purchase, permits, grading, seeding, sodding, fences, gates, insurance, wifi, jumps - I am overlooking a thousand other costs)?

[endlessclimb]

Leslie, if you are still reading or even care, I have a yes/no question.

Do you believe you helped and represented the black community with your actions?

[pluvinel]

@MorganSercu

So, what was the ballpark figure for a similar venue, total? If a few tons of money fell out of the sky and it could be magically made to appear? 50 million, total (purchase, permits, grading, seeding, sodding, fences, gates, insurance, wifi, jumps - I am overlooking a thousand other costs)?

The Virginia Horse Center is ~600 acres. The book value for their reported financial statements show ~$20 million in property & equipment.
https://vahorsecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/VHCF-Annual-Report-2015-16.pdf

But that is “book value”…it is NOT replacement cost. I have no idea what it would cost to replace the VA Horse Center as it sits today, but it would probably cost $20 million just to replace the coliseum building alone.

The State of Maryland is spending ~$20 million just on Phase 1 for the 5-Star facilities at Fair Hill…the land is already there along with other amenities.

http://equiery.com/construction-begins-for-fair-hills-future/

[afox2332]

I cannot believe how many of the people in the horse communities are even acknowledging “cancel culture.” Do you even know what that is? It is shutting someone up so there can be NO conversation about ideas. Which, from what I’ve seen on FB videos, and articles posted, I’ve had to conclude that these people are too stupid to be able to handle any discussion. Actually, in most cases, it’s very obvious that these individuals would be unable to argue their points. “Cancel culture” is the liberal groups or universities answer to avoiding any discussion. How convenient. Put the not-so-bright activists out there and ensure they won’t be scared off by having to actually Defend Their Position. They can’t.

[FrittSkritt]

@endlessclimb

Leslie, if you are still reading or even care, I have a yes/no question.

Do you believe you helped and represented the black community with your actions?

She’s taking care of her mother, who is IN THE HOSPITAL, and doesn’t need to answer your loaded question. Shame on you.

[MorganSercu]

Did she write the Plantation article after her parents were in the hospital?

Her father died on the first of September; the article about Plantation went up on the 16th.

[endlessclimb]

@FrittSkritt

She’s taking care of her mother, who is IN THE HOSPITAL, and doesn’t need to answer your loaded question. Shame on you.

It’s not a loaded question. The end goal is to help the black communities, right? And I could be taking care of Jesus Christ, and it doesn’t negate my past actions.

[Equkelly]

I’m pretty sure a bunch of older white women have no room to talk about what is and is not good for the black community. If you’re really genuinely curious you should be listening to POC in the sport.

FWIW, I grew up in Chester county and the attitude about a potential name change was not surprising at all. Chester county is full of rich old white people that get more offended at the idea that racism exists than they do about actual racism. It’s an entire county of white fragility. They can’t ever take the time to examine their own implicit biases or prejudices because THEY ARE NOT RACIST AND HOW DARE YOU FOR SUGGESTING SUCH A THING. Honestly if Chester county got as outraged at racism as they do at people talking about racism, it would make a real difference in the world. And yes obviously not everyone but the culture as a whole? Definitely.

Will EN putting their foot down change anything for the BLM movement? Not really. Do we still have problems in this sport when it comes to diversity? Yes. Was anyone actually offended by that specific name? Doubtful. Did this issue even come up because of the BLM movement? Probably. But was it the right call? IMO, yea.

Being an ally means more than posting a black square on Instagram. Sometimes you have to have hard conversations and sometimes that means taking a stand even if it means you lose something. POC have said that names and monuments that glorify slavery are deeply hurtful. Removing them and changing names won’t fix systemic racism but it is a start.

[pluvinel]

@Equkelly

I’m pretty sure a bunch of older white women have no room to talk about what is and is not good for the black community. If you’re really genuinely curious you should be listening to POC in the sport.

FWIW, I grew up in Chester county and the attitude about a potential name change was not surprising at all. Chester county is full of rich old white people that get more offended at the idea that racism exists than they do about actual racism. It’s an entire county of white fragility. They can’t ever take the time to examine their own implicit biases or prejudices because THEY ARE NOT RACIST AND HOW DARE YOU FOR SUGGESTING SUCH A THING. Honestly if Chester county got as outraged at racism as they do at people talking about racism, it would make a real difference in the world. And yes obviously not everyone but the culture as a whole? Definitely.

Will EN putting their foot down change anything for the BLM movement? Not really. Do we still have problems in this sport when it comes to diversity? Yes. Was anyone actually offended by that specific name? Doubtful. Did this issue even come up because of the BLM movement? Probably. But was it the right call? IMO, yea.

Being an ally means more than posting a black square on Instagram. Sometimes you have to have hard conversations and sometimes that means taking a stand even if it means you lose something. POC have said that names and monuments that glorify slavery are deeply hurtful. Removing them and changing names won’t fix systemic racism but it is a start.

So the end justifies the means? Scorched earth?

Telling some rich, old white folk that they are racist will get them to change?

How did that work out?