Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[Djones]

@Ghazzu

The book’s slant reminds me more than anything else of Mao’s Cultural Revolution purges and the required self-condemnation of the accused.

Do I think institutionalized racism is rampant in the US?
Damned straight.
Do I think white folks need to take a good hard look at ourselves and our preconceived notions and make some hard changes?
Hell yes.
Do I think Ms. DiAngelo’s approach is the way forward?
Hell no.
Institutionalizing self-flagellation is not productive.

Yes yes yes!!!

[Equkelly]

@Ajierene

I understand in an attempt for brevity, I may not have made the story of my friend clear as possible, so I will reiterate. In his full time job, he is discrimminated against at times because he is male. He is made to feel not welcome in the break room because he is male. He has missed opportunities because he is male.

As I stated before, the concept of privilege may be suitable in a research setting but in practicality it is not. People do miss opportunities due to status. A friend was passed over for a government contract due to his status as white male and the regulation that a certain amount of government contracts go to minorities. I had to go to college on interest bearing loans due to my status as white. There are not government grants for “white poor but not poor enough with decent but not great grades”. This is in contrast to a classmate in college who was in a better socioeconomic situation, had parents willing to pay for college but did not pay for college because she had government grants due to her status as black. My issue with this is not that she used the grant but that the money from the government, in my opinion, would have been better served going to someone who was in a financial situation where they needed the money. It is one of the issues I have with this - using a concept that ASSumes certain advantages to a group of people so bypassing them for a group that fits the same criteria but with one addition does a disservice. I do not like anyone being at a disadvantage like that.

Also, in practicality, we are not statistics. Do you walk up to someone who broke their leg and say, “but it isn’t amputated. I’m not saying your life is easy, I’m just saying you don’t suffer issues inherent with an amputated leg.” It just seems hurtful to dissmiss someone’s pain like that. It is fine if it doesn’t bother you, but we are all unique and special people and should be treated as such. Hence, when someone says, “those words make me feel bad, dismissed and marginalized.” The speaker should apologize and not use those words if they care about the listener’s feelings and they should care about the listener’s feelings, especially if they are working towards winning an ally.

This ties into other issues, though. The poor appalacians are technically not in their situation because of their skine tone but the fact remains they are decendents of poor farmers, majority being Ulster Scots. The Quakers and much of the colonists in the 1700’s considered Scottish and Irish to be lesser than them and they escaped the persecution into the Appalacian territory. Today, this region is still in great poverty. This region is never talked about though, and while there is federal money designated to help them, they are one of countless communities in the United States that do not have the ear and hence support of the general population, which often is what drives politics and where the money goes.

Wait, isn’t this what your argument is about the word “plantation”? While you acknowledge there is more than one definition of the word, isn’t your argument that a particular definition is more common and makes people FEEL bad and hence we should not use it? If one person’s feelings are more valid than the ability to use a word, are not another person’s feelings more valid than using a different word? What I am currently inferring is the opinion that one person’s feelings are MORE valid than someone else’s. This is not, in my opinion, a step in the direction of true equality.

But you didn’t “come from my side”. That we are both classed as ‘white’, we are not the same and did not necessarily have the same personal experiences and did not come from the same ‘side’.

Wow. This has got to be the most racist comment in 71 pages of this whole thread… and that’s saying something. Again, to anyone reading this that’s lurking now or in the future, I would like to apologize on behalf of the equestrian community for the disgusting attitudes here. If you are black and you got a job over a white person, it’s because you deserved it, not because you are black. If you are black and you received a scholarship, it’s because of your merits… not because of your skin color. I’m so sorry that it’s 2020 and people including your fellow equestrians still think like this. It’s appalling and it’s not right and I’m very, very sorry.

[trubandloki]

@Equkelly

Wow. This has got to be the most racist comment in 71 pages of this whole thread… and that’s saying something. Again, to anyone reading this that’s lurking now or in the future, I would like to apologize on behalf of the equestrian community for the disgusting attitudes here. If you are black and you got a job over a white person, it’s because you deserved it, not because you are black. If you are black and you received a scholarship, it’s because of your merits… not because of your skin color. I’m so sorry that it’s 2020 and people including your fellow equestrians still think like this. It’s appalling and it’s not right and I’m very, very sorry.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your general thought but I do want to point out that there are scholarships that ONLY go to people of color so your blanket statement is not accurate. Just like there are scholarships that only go to women, or people with a certain living situation, or to a person with a certain talent.
There are also requirements for giving work to minorities and minority or woman owned businesses. Before you insist something you should probably know that it is true.

[trubandloki]

I want to add ( but afraid to edit) - Way back in the 1980s I received a scholarship (very small but… ) because I am female. This scholarship was for females going to a trade school.
I am sure there were men there who financially needed it more than I did (though I really did need it, but admitting there were probably people even worse off than me), but they did not qualify because of that darn Y chromosome of theirs.

[Equkelly]

Also the mods should lock this thread. This is just disgusting and I’m embarrassed for a lot of you.

[trubandloki]

@Equkelly

Also the mods should lock this thread. This is just disgusting and I’m embarrassed for a lot of you.

I think if the line for closing a thread was that some people are embarrassed by others then we might not have any threads open at all.

Why are you so mad that you are stating your point in a way that misses a huge fact. You can have your opinion and accept that the fact still does exist. By insisting the fact does not exist it makes your point get lost.

And for the record, you do not need to be embarrassed on my behalf because I am female and I received a scholarship designated for only females.

[ladyj79]

@trubandloki

I think if the line for closing a thread was that some people are embarrassed by others then we might not have any threads open at all.

Why are you so mad that you are stating your point in a way that misses a huge fact. You can have your opinion and accept that the fact still does exist. By insisting the fact does not exist it makes your point get lost.

And for the record, you do not need to be embarrassed on my behalf because I am female and I received a scholarship designated for only females.

Agreed cause I’m embarrassed for people who are embarrassed right now:lol:

[Ajierene]

@Equkelly

Wow. This has got to be the most racist comment in 71 pages of this whole thread… and that’s saying something. Again, to anyone reading this that’s lurking now or in the future, I would like to apologize on behalf of the equestrian community for the disgusting attitudes here. If you are black and you got a job over a white person, it’s because you deserved it, not because you are black. If you are black and you received a scholarship, it’s because of your merits… not because of your skin color. I’m so sorry that it’s 2020 and people including your fellow equestrians still think like this. It’s appalling and it’s not right and I’m very, very sorry.

For clarification, as @trubandloki pointed out, there are times where it is very clear how a decision was made. The classmate with a grant very specifically stated the government grants she received were only available to black individuals, regardless of income level. The individual who lost a contract was very specifically told that contract was going to a minority to fill a quota.

I am not stating speculation, but known facts. I am not stating them because I think they are a common occurance. I am stating them as a hopeful reminder that when you are speaking with a person on a subject, you are speaking to a person, not a statistic. Every person matter’s and every person’s personal experiences are valid and should not be diminished.

[nunyabusiness]

@Equkelly

Wow. This has got to be the most racist comment in 71 pages of this whole thread… and that’s saying something. Again, to anyone reading this that’s lurking now or in the future, I would like to apologize on behalf of the equestrian community for the disgusting attitudes here. If you are black and you got a job over a white person, it’s because you deserved it, not because you are black. If you are black and you received a scholarship, it’s because of your merits… not because of your skin color. I’m so sorry that it’s 2020 and people including your fellow equestrians still think like this. It’s appalling and it’s not right and I’m very, very sorry.

Wow, you’re a piece of work aren’t you? Maybe you should come out from under that rock. There are ABSOLUTELY things like that going on. Sometimes the system works and sometimes it doesn’t, but you cannot sit there and say that every black person that got help for something deserved it. Just like not every white person has…good lord.

[nunyabusiness]

@trubandloki

You must be reading a different thread than I am.

I read 69 pages of people explaining that this was handled wrong. Not defending the name, but defending why the owner was upset about being treated this way by someone whose main goal was to get clicks on their website. Not defending the name, but explaining how this was handled 100% wrong and how this could have been a great success story if the person/people who made this mess had stepped back and looked at the greater good instead of how to get clicks on their website.

THIS THIS THIS!!!

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@Equkelly

Wow. This has got to be the most racist comment in 71 pages of this whole thread… and that’s saying something. Again, to anyone reading this that’s lurking now or in the future, I would like to apologize on behalf of the equestrian community for the disgusting attitudes here. If you are black and you got a job over a white person, it’s because you deserved it, not because you are black. If you are black and you received a scholarship, it’s because of your merits… not because of your skin color. I’m so sorry that it’s 2020 and people including your fellow equestrians still think like this. It’s appalling and it’s not right and I’m very, very sorry.

A certified minority-owned business (and yes, there is a process through which a business gets certified as “minority-owned”) has access to government grants and loans that are restricted to minority-owned businesses. In addition, many government programs are required to award a specific percentage of contracts to minority-owned businesses.

Affirmative Action in higher education was created explicitly to address the then-typical situation where colorblind admissions policies ended up favoring whites because of their historic educational advantages. And, as others have pointed out, there are lots of scholarships that target or “prefer” certain specific categories of student.

Now, I’m not saying that these practices are bad or unnecessary or are not of value to society. But, to say that decisions on hiring, college admission, and scholarship awards are entirely colorblind, as you have said, is incorrect. Rather, they are sometimes deliberately NOT colorblind.

[anon6923113]

@Equkelly

Also the mods should lock this thread. This is just disgusting and I’m embarrassed for a lot of you.

CANCEL CULTURE!

Folks already got eventing at Plantation Field canceled. But they are unsatisfied with that, and now they also want the free flowing discussion about the cancellation of Plantation Field canceled.

:sigh:

Who is it precisely that is fragile again?

[sing]

So if you believe white privilege does not exist, do you also believe black lack of privilege does not exist?

[sing]

Ajierene, interesting points. But you lost me at the part where the Appalachian experience is unknown and unexplored in wider American culture. It might just be nitpicking on my part, but I just couldn’t get past it having recently reread Hillbilly Elegy by JD Vance. And it took me back to my schooldays in my little wooden schoolhouse(long before I went on to the “Harvard of Eastern Oklahoma” or was it South Dakota???) anyway I remember watching an Oscar winning film called Harlen County USA. Remember that one? I watched that in a school thousands of miles away from Appalachia, because the people in my community, represented by our school board, decided their kids were going to know about this.

[sing]

And if you would rather pull the discussion back to Unionville, and how poorly it was handled, how should this be dealt with in the future? Because I am pretty sure it will come up sooner than later.

[trubandloki]

@sing

And if you would rather pull the discussion back to Unionville, and how poorly it was handled, how should this be dealt with in the future? Because I am pretty sure it will come up sooner than later.

There are several well written posts in this very thread about that.

[sing]

Which was your favorite?

[EventerAJ]

@sing

Ajierene, interesting points. But you lost me at the part where the Appalachian experience is unknown and unexplored in wider American culture. It might just be nitpicking on my part, but I just couldn’t get past it having recently reread Hillbilly Elegy by JD Vance. And it took me back to my schooldays in my little wooden schoolhouse(long before I went on to the “Harvard of Eastern Oklahoma” or was it South Dakota???) anyway I remember watching an Oscar winning film called Harlen County USA. Remember that one? I watched that in a school thousands of miles away from Appalachia, because the people in my community, represented by our school board, decided their kids were going to know about this.

I was born in Harlan County Kentucky. Much of my family is from there. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. I had a great education there, including a lot of US history. We were never taught about Appalachia. My 6th grade geography teacher told me I was wrong when I named Kentucky as a “mountain” state. (Um, sorry, my dad was a coal miner in the shadow of Black Mtn, altitude 4000+ ft…that is most definitely a mountain.)

You don’t see Appalachian struggles on national news. West Liberty KY experienced a devastating tornado several years ago, no coverage. Major flooding, entire communities lose everything, no one knows outside of the state. Thousands of coal jobs lost, extreme economic depression, lack of quality education, severe opioid abuse. But also home to some of the best people our country can offer. Last week, little Jackson County high school (predominantly white) travelled to inner city Louisville high school (predominantly black) to play an unscheduled football game. The mountain team had cancellation due to Covid illness on other teams; no one wanted to play in Louisville due to safety (protest) concerns. But the Jackson county coach wanted to make a point…his poor kids from broken homes are not any different than those in Louisville. They all deserve the same respect. They travelled 140 miles to play. The Jackson county kids wanted to link arms and show solitude…due to Covid they couldn’t, but still found a way to express their support. If you aren’t from Kentucky, you probably didn’t hear about it. The point is, rural mountain people face the same challenges and we all should support each other.

Appalachian people are seen as backwards hillbillies. WV, Southeastern KY are forgotten by politicians and most everyone else. We are the butt of jokes, toothless and marrying cousins, if anyone cares to mention them. I won’t say at all that “growing up Appalachian” is the same as being black, but it is indeed an overlooked population nationally.

[sing]

What did you think when the film came out in 1976? And what did you think of Hillbilly Elegy? I didn’t realize they made a movie about this too, it is set to be released next month.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@sing

So if you believe white privilege does not exist, do you also believe black lack of privilege does not exist?

“White privilege” is a useless term. It’s divisive and dismissive and ignores a multitude of factors that are at least equally important, if not more so, in determining a person’s path in life. Social class, geography, family, education, culture, the list goes on and on…

Do blacks face challenges that whites don’t? Of course they do. And poor people face challenges that rich people don’t. A white kid born to a 16-year old high school dropout in Appalachia faces challenges that a black kid born to happily married middle-class parents is never going experience.

Telling whites that they benefit from white privilege accomplishes nothing. If you had told the young me, buying groceries with food stamps, that I was lucky because of my white privilege, I would have told you to take your white privilege and shove it.

Have whites, historically, as a whole, had advantages that blacks have lacked? Yes. No one is arguing that they haven’t. But casting things as black vs white, fighting over “privileges,” does nothing to improve the situation.