Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[Ajierene]

I appreciate your entire post, I’m just going to quote what I have a specific thought about

@Marigold

On all of this, we absolutely agree. Bolding is my own, because I think that’s the crux of it.

I do understand how people get impatient when it comes to things they feel strongly about, especially when they are noticing people being hurt and want it to be resolved. As you point out, rushing and being blunt may be less productive in the long run (which is the problem here) but I also think it’s fair to feel that way. I understand your point about accomplishing the goal vs. wanting to be “right”, but on the other hand it doesn’t feel good to have to adjust yourself to suit the needs of someone you feel is causing harm.

Then again, if this was easy it would all have been dealt with years ago…

Oh word, on this we can completely agree and TRUST me, young Ajierene had to very much learn this. Be patient, show respect to get respect. In the military, we have a saying - respect the rank, not necessarily the person. So, that E9 you show the appropriate respect to because they are an E9, even if you think their are the worst person on the planet. You won’t get anywhere treating them as such, you will just looking like an insubordinate, insufferable child (or something to that effect).

@Marigold

This is an interesting point. I actually fairly regularly hear the word used in this context, which may be why it doesn’t trigger such a strong response for me. I wonder if it’s somewhat regional in that way? I didn’t realize a sentence like that might be considered uncommon or unusual.

This is intrguiing. So, if I am to undertand you correctly, you would say “Michael Phelps has height privilege”?

If this is true, can we explore your background more?

For myself, I grew up in central NJ. My father’s side is second generation born/raised in NYC (Brooklyn, specifically). My mom, while she was born in Poland, grew up in Westchester, NY, which is just north of NYC. While I live in MD now, it is the northeastern-most corner and still very much considered part of the Mid-Atlantic Region. I have noticed a few dialect differences (for instance, growing up “sir” was used as a universal sign of respect but where I live now you do not use it as such. If you do, you may get a comment, “Don’t call me sir, I work for a living”), but the dialect is still pretty close to where I grew up. Chester County is closer to my hometown than I am now.

How about you?

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@Ajierene

This is intrguiing. So, if I am to undertand you correctly, you would say “Michael Phelps has height privilege”?

For me, I would expect to hear “Michael can reach the top shelf without a ladder because he’s lucky enough to be tall,” or “Michael was blessed with height, so he can reach the top shelf without a ladder.” Sticking with your phrasing above, I would expect to hear “Michael Phelps has a height advantage.” “Privilege” is not a word I would expect to hear in this context at all.

The only routine use of the word “privilege” that I hear is in the context of threatening someone with the loss of privileges for bad behavior. “You are going to lose your driving privileges if you keep coming home late and leaving my car with an empty gas tank.”

Location: the South, but not the Deep South.

[Equkelly]

@B and B

Can I borrow this? I think this is one of the best explanations I have ever heard of why the phrasing ‘white privilege’ rankles and ‘advantage’ doesn’t. And the heart/cancer explanation is also useful. And I am about to dive into a five day conference that will largely revolve around these issues in the workplace, so I need all the help I can get!

Yea god forbid you listen to other people’s struggles. Thankfully you have all this racist crap on COTH to confirm your biases. You wouldn’t want to go do any real work on yourself now. Forget racism, glad we’re all talking about the real issue: how talking about racism makes white people feel.

This is such a disgusting racist circle jerk.

[anon6923113]

@Equkelly

Yea god forbid you listen to other people’s struggles. Thankfully you have all this racist crap on COTH to confirm your biases. You wouldn’t want to go do any real work on yourself now. Forget racism, glad we’re all talking about the real issue: how talking about racism makes white people feel.

This is such a disgusting racist circle jerk.

You are really coming up with some persuasive arguments now, and winning folks over to your point of view. Way to go!

[Equkelly]

@Virginia Horse Mom

You are really coming up with some persuasive arguments now, and winning folks over to your point of view. Way to go!

I’m not trying to win anybody over, but someone’s got to point out the racist crap.

[ladyj79]

@Equkelly

I’m not trying to win anybody over, but someone’s got to point out the racist crap.

You realize that you calling something or someone racist doesn’t make that de facto racist, right?

Carry on.

[CindyCRNA]

@Equkelly

I’m not trying to win anybody over, but someone’s got to point out the racist crap.

I’m sorry but something is wrong with you. You’re really just a little too much outraged. I hope you find peace in your life.

[Jealoushe]

Soooooooo back to Plantation.

Are events still running there now? Like the non equestrian events? Any locals have the intel?

[Equkelly]

@ladyj79

You realize that you calling something or someone racist doesn’t make that de facto racist, right?

Carry on.

No but talking about how if black person gets a job over a white guy that OBVIOUSLY means it was due to their skin color because there’s just no way a black person could be just as, or more qualified than that white guy is. That’s racist.

If you dislike being called racist you should try being not racist.

[Equkelly]

@CindyCRNA

I’m sorry but something is wrong with you. You’re really just a little too much outraged. I hope you find peace in your life.

“If you’re not outraged you’re not paying attention.”

[TheMoo]

@Equkelly

I’m not trying to win anybody over, but someone’s got to point out the racist crap.

Yes well the discussion has turned into how get more allies. Not just ranting and raving for the sake of being outraged and right. Like it or not, no one will ever listen to you nor will you ever be a leader until you stop and really take in what has been posted. We all go through this stage which is why we are bringing it to your attention.

[Marigold]

@Ajierene

This is intrguiing. So, if I am to undertand you correctly, you would say “Michael Phelps has height privilege”?

If this is true, can we explore your background more?

For myself, I grew up in central NJ. My father’s side is second generation born/raised in NYC (Brooklyn, specifically). My mom, while she was born in Poland, grew up in Westchester, NY, which is just north of NYC. While I live in MD now, it is the northeastern-most corner and still very much considered part of the Mid-Atlantic Region. I have noticed a few dialect differences (for instance, growing up “sir” was used as a universal sign of respect but where I live now you do not use it as such. If you do, you may get a comment, “Don’t call me sir, I work for a living”), but the dialect is still pretty close to where I grew up. Chester County is closer to my hometown than I am now.

How about you?

No, I wouldn’t often hear “Michael Phelps has height privilege”, but I would fairly regularly hear “Michael Phelps is privileged to be tall enough to reach the top shelf”. It wouldn’t be uncommon for me to hear it in a socioeconomic context either, ex. “Sally is privileged to be able to travel to vacation several times a year”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard “has height privilege” or “has financial privilege” but I would regularly hear it phrased as “is privileged to be xx” or “is privileged to have xx”. It generally meant something that was unchangeable about the person (ex. height), or something that they have had from birth (ex. old money), but it wouldn’t have been applied to something that the person had done for themselves (ex. I wouldn’t hear “Sam is privileged to have passed her bar exams”).

I’d often hear this from my mother or her side of the family - they have been based on this side of the ocean for a generation or two now, but are a young family (such that I grew up with all my great-grandparents still around). My great-grandparents and some of my grandparents came over from England, although if you go back far enough a few are Scottish, and as a group had/have very strong opinions about how people should speak (try using the word “got” in front of my mother, I dare you :lol:). My father’s side wouldn’t care nearly so much about any of that, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard any of them use the word “privilege” in any context.

RE: @OfCourseItsAnAlter, my family and group of friends rarely used the words “lucky” or “blessed” in any context (I often attribute “blessed” to a more southern part of the country than we live in - it’s not that common in phrasing around here). I can confirm though that I would hear PLENTY about loss of privileges as a child! Nearly always after I’d done something perfectly angelic, of course…

It’s definitely interesting how people’s background can influence how things hit their ears. I’ve just grown up hearing that some people are privileged in certain ways or with certain things, but it’s never been looked at as a positive or a negative. It’s not normally an emotional comment in any way - more of a statement of fact, something that just is. It’s interesting to hear that it can hit some people in such a different way.

[Ajierene]

@OfCourseItsAnAlter

For me, I would expect to hear “Michael can reach the top shelf without a ladder because he’s lucky enough to be tall,” or “Michael was blessed with height, so he can reach the top shelf without a ladder.” Sticking with your phrasing above, I would expect to hear “Michael Phelps has a height advantage.” “Privilege” is not a word I would expect to hear in this context at all.

The only routine use of the word “privilege” that I hear is in the context of threatening someone with the loss of privileges for bad behavior. “You are going to lose your driving privileges if you keep coming home late and leaving my car with an empty gas tank.”

Location: the South, but not the Deep South.

Oh man…blessed…

Going from north of the Mason-Dixon line to south, it was so weird. It was very much part of my culture growing up that you did not bring religion into every day vernacular. So then I move just an hour south of where I grew up and especially closer to Baltimore, you hear “blessed” a lot.

Have a blessed day
We are blessed
Oh but God bless at least this didn’t happen.

It was so ingrained in me to not do that that I had no idea how to react at first. I am OK now but it is still weird for me to hear.

[Ajierene]

@Jealoushe

Soooooooo back to Plantation.

Are events still running there now? Like the non equestrian events? Any locals have the intel?

They are holding their unrecognized event at the end of the month. I am not sure what’s going on after that, I don’t see anything on the website:

https://plantationfield.com/

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

One of the many wonderful things about the south is the phrase “Bless your heart.” It’s like the utility infielder in baseball. It can be used in almost any situation and can, depending on tone and situation, convey a multitude of different meanings. You never need to feel left at a loss for words. :lol:

[Ajierene]

@Marigold

No, I wouldn’t often hear “Michael Phelps has height privilege”, but I would fairly regularly hear “Michael Phelps is privileged to be tall enough to reach the top shelf”. It wouldn’t be uncommon for me to hear it in a socioeconomic context either, ex. “Sally is privileged to be able to travel to vacation several times a year”. I don’t think I’ve ever heard “has height privilege” or “has financial privilege” but I would regularly hear it phrased as “is privileged to be xx” or “is privileged to have xx”. It generally meant something that was unchangeable about the person (ex. height), or something that they have had from birth (ex. old money), but it wouldn’t have been applied to something that the person had done for themselves (ex. I wouldn’t hear “Sam is privileged to have passed her bar exams”).

I’d often hear this from my mother or her side of the family - they have been based on this side of the ocean for a generation or two now, but are a young family (such that I grew up with all my great-grandparents still around). My great-grandparents and some of my grandparents came over from England, although if you go back far enough a few are Scottish, and as a group had/have very strong opinions about how people should speak (try using the word “got” in front of my mother, I dare you :lol:). My father’s side wouldn’t care nearly so much about any of that, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard any of them use the word “privilege” in any context.

RE: @OfCourseItsAnAlter, my family and group of friends rarely used the words “lucky” or “blessed” in any context (I often attribute “blessed” to a more southern part of the country than we live in - it’s not that common in phrasing around here). I can confirm though that I would hear PLENTY about loss of privileges as a child! Nearly always after I’d done something perfectly angelic, of course…

It’s definitely interesting how people’s background can influence how things hit their ears. I’ve just grown up hearing that some people are privileged in certain ways or with certain things, but it’s never been looked at as a positive or a negative. It’s not normally an emotional comment in any way - more of a statement of fact, something that just is. It’s interesting to hear that it can hit some people in such a different way.

We would use “lucky” where you would use “privileged”. Interesting! and yeah, see my reply to OFcourseItsAnAlter about blessed. In my experience it is definitely a “southern thing”.

I also don’t recall much in use of “lost privileges” as a child, I think it was phrased more as “lost rights”.

What part of the country are you from/in? New England, MidAtlantic? South, Midwest?

[B_and_B]

@Equkelly

Yea god forbid you listen to other people’s struggles. Thankfully you have all this racist crap on COTH to confirm your biases. You wouldn’t want to go do any real work on yourself now. Forget racism, glad we’re all talking about the real issue: how talking about racism makes white people feel.

This is such a disgusting racist circle jerk.

Lol!!!
Please read for comprehension! I said I need to understand why the phrase ‘white privilege’ annoys people and that Ajierene’s explanation really helped me, and did in fact help me during a breakout session last night on economic inequality. Not that the phrase annoys me personally. But if trying to understand why a phrase annoys people makes me racist, by all means feel free to call me that.
Sorry to feed the anger and detract from the rest of the interesting conversation going on.

[RainWeasley]

@Equkelly , in general I agree with you on points in this conversation, but you have really got to dial back the emotions and insulting of others if you ever want anyone to listen to what you have to say. That kind of attitude is a lot of the reason why people won’t listen to us and assume we are all “Social Justice Warriors” that won’t consider any one else’s view and only want to scream about how right we are.

I for one have seen a lot of really good points on both sides of the conversation. And while I may disagree with some opinions, for the most part the last several pages have been really civil and interesting to read. I know its really hard when you feel so strongly about it, but trust me, that anger and passion would be better directed elsewhere.

[Ajierene]

@ohmyheck

I

I suppose where I’m going with this is that I’m not convinced any replacement turns of phrase white folks come up with would make the original concepts attached to these words any more palatable or acceptable to those who continue to feel offended by them.

SNIPPED FOR BREVITY

This is a very valid point. Take for instance the use of terms for people with some mental deficiency.

Until the 1960’s, words like “imbecile” and “moron” were all non-offensive words used to describe someone who had some challenges mentally. Those words started to see use as a derogatory. So, scientists came up with “retarded” and that was the non-offensive term for a while. It became derogatory through use and handicap came into use as the non-offensive term and that became derogatory. Disability is used in both a derogatory and perjorative manner, depending on where it is heard.

Autism is used in derogatory jokes.

This is why it is so difficult to have just one word to explain something and why it is so important to understand when you are speaking to a person, you are speaking to a person. Even today, one person may not find retarded offensive but another will. The ability to be flexible with language to help your message be received is a great skill to have.

[B_and_B]

It is not, in my view, a matter of trying to make a phrase more or less palatable. What I value is trying to understand Why the phrase sets someone off. If I can understand why the person just went from listening to furious, I can make progress in bringing the conversation back on track. Okay, this phrase angers people because in this culture, or cultural subset, this is what it implies. If I have that in mind, I may still use the phrase, but I may frame how I use it slightly differently. Or not. Or, I may determine that the phrase is so offensive that I may not want to use it.
Which ironically, is where this whole thing started 75 pages ago. And I maintained then and maintain now that EN and all went about it the wrong way because they failed to take into account the best way to effect change and failed entirely to understand the viewpoint of the groups they were talking at. (not with, At)
But, apparently trying to understand how people’s viewpoints develop is racist.