Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[Gardenhorse]

I think it is naive to think that the issue of the name would have never come up without EN. People have been protesting the word Plantation used in the names of towns, neighborhoods, and schools around the country. Why would equestrian sport be immune to this?

[Ghazzu]

@Gardenhorse

I think it is naive to think that the issue of the name would have never come up without EN. People have been protesting the word Plantation used in the names of towns, neighborhoods, and schools around the country. Why would equestrian sport be immune to this?

I don’t think most of us here believe it would never come up as an issue.
The point is the manner in which the issue was raised was ham-handed and the end result was not only less than optimal, it was abysmal, at least for most of those who are even aware of eventing.
It may have raised the profile of EN, and I truly believe that was a major subtext in the whole sorry affair.

[anon6923113]

@Ghazzu

I don’t think most of us here believe it would never come up as an issue.
The point is the manner in which the issue was raised was ham-handed and the end result was not only less than optimal, it was abysmal, at least for most of those who are even aware of eventing.
It may have raised the profile of EN, and I truly believe that was a major subtext in the whole sorry affair.

EXACTLY! ^^^^^ THIS!

The arguing for the last 70 pages is in no small part because a small number of folks on one end of the spectrum see ZERO reason the name should bother anyone.

I’m actually not one of those people. I get it - for the folks who know nothing about this venue, when they hear that name they might pause and go, “Hmm. I wonder what is up with the name of that event.”

But honestly… that’s the reality of the issue. A respectful, measured, moderate discussion could have been had with the event organizer, the PFEE board, the property owner, and leadership at USEF and USEA… and the name of the venue could probably have been changed by 2022.

So why didn’t THAT happen?

1. Is it because eventing is full of evil racists who intentionally are going out of their way to subliminally, and cruelly trigger people of color?

orrrr…

2. Eventing Nation and Leslie Wylie are immature, impatient, and self centered, and they BUNGLED this thing, and now they don’t care because they ran the editorial they wanted to… so whatever. On to the next crusade!!! Apparently that has something to do with Leslie befriending a young Native American woman who lives in South Dakota… and now she’s trying to engage the equestrian community in and around that general area to find horse back riding opportunities for this young woman. Which is fine. It just comes off as a little manic on social media… like it’s one racial cause after another with Leslie Wylie, and the equestrian community. And it really does come across like an example of “white savior complex.”

And yes… “white savior complex” is a VERY LOADED term. But so is “white privilege.” And “white fragility.”

So if folks want to go around declaring that others have a problem with “white fragility”… from here on out I’m just going to reply… Maybe. Maybe you’re right. But also… maybe those doing the accusing also have an issue. They have a “white savior complex.” Both things might be true at the same time.

Ok… crawling back under my rock now.

[Lord_Helpus]

Am I missing something? Isn’t EN a small time newspaper, devoted exclusively to the dissemination of results and articles concerning one “limited to rich people” sport? And now it thinks that Boss Hogg ain’t got nuthin’ on it. Why did I think that news papers were supposed to disseminate the news, but not become part of the story.

If I am anti unions I must never darken the streets until Unionville changes its name. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren. William Henry Harrison, James Tyler. James Polk, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S, Grant ALL OWNED SLAVES.
If we are going to be full out PC, without being hypocritical, then these names and the names of all their successors must be stricken from all mention of US history Goodbye Delaware river (and the slave owner who crossed it). Might as well burn down Montecello (sp).
People,l US history is replete with names associated with the birth of our country.
Get over yourselves.

[ladyj79]

@Lord Helpus

Am I missing something? Isn’t EN a small time newspaper, devoted exclusively to the dissemination of results and articles concerning one “limited to rich people” sport? And now it thinks that Boss Hogg ain’t got nuthin’ on it. Why did I think that news papers were supposed to disseminate the news, but not become part of the story.

If I am anti unions I must never darken the streets until Unionville changes its name. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren. William Henry Harrison, James Tyler. James Polk, Andrew Johnson, Ulysses S, Grant ALL OWNED SLAVES.
If we are going to be full out PC, without being hypocritical, then these names and the names of all their successors must be stricken from all mention of US history Goodbye Delaware river (and the slave owner who crossed it). Might as well burn down Montecello (sp).
People,l US history is replete with names associate with the birth of our country.
Get over yourselves.

Would we call it a newspaper? Isn’t it a blog with advertisers?

[Gardenhorse]

In my opinion, the argument that something like racism isn’t being protested in the “right” way is a common means of deflection from people who have no intention of ever changing their attitudes or actions. It changes the focus of discussion to the actions of the people bringing up the concerns rather than the actual issue itself.

[pluvinel]

@Gardenhorse

In my opinion, the argument that something like racism isn’t being protested in the “right” way is a common means of deflection from people who have no intention of ever changing their attitudes or actions. It changes the focus of discussion to the actions of the people bringing up the concerns rather than the actual issue itself.

You are missing the bigger picture. This is not a debate about “racism.” It is a discussion about a landowner’s prerogative to do with his land as he pleases.

It is a debate about a property owner’s rights, and his ability to allow people on his land or to kick people off his land.

In the current case, the reason given for kicking people off his land is centered around the use of the word “plantation.” It could just as easily have been because he “It was a full moon and he just felt like it.”

It is the landowner’s exclusive perogative to decide if he opens his land to others and who he allows on his land.

The “racism” discuss belongs elsewhere.

If USEA/USEF decided that use of the word “plantation” was offensive, then they could have easily given the organizer and landowner a choice…change the name, or have event not recognized.

How that conversation could / should have been conducted is another subject for discussion.

But ultimately, it is the landowner who holds the cards as he has the right to shut access to his land.

[anon6923113]

@Gardenhorse

In my opinion, the argument that something like racism isn’t being protested in the “right” way is a common means of deflection from people who have no intention of ever changing their attitudes or actions. It changes the focus of discussion to the actions of the people bringing up the concerns rather than the actual issue itself.

Well… that’s an interesting comment.

But here’s the thing… when it comes to Plantation Field… who were the “racists” in this story, and what sort of “racism” was being “protested?”

The origins of the name of this eventing venue have been THOROUGHLY discussed in this thread.

The origins of the name of the venue were not racist, in almost everyone’s opinion. Do you disagree? If so… why?

An argument has been made that it doesn’t matter why the venue was named “Plantation Field”… what matters is that the origins of the name might be easily misconstrued/misunderstood, and insensitive to black participants in sport. And this could cause black participants, and spectators and vendors to feel uncomfortable with this venue, and alienated.

I honestly think that’s a fair argument. But again… I don’t see a blatant problem with the venue, the sport, the organizer, or the land owner in terms of actual racism. There is an argument that perhaps MIGHT be made related to “disparate impact.” A variation of that sort of thinking could lead a person to declare eventing in general is a “racist” sport because the participants are disproportionately white. But when talking about “disparate impact” types of issues, and a need for more diversity in any number of societal areas… typically solutions do not involve “quick fixes.” And typically people do not declaratively assert that a lack of diversity in the present is directly a result of racism in the present. Often… it’s more accurately a result of racism that defined our society in prior eras.

So let me be blunt… I do not think the Plantation Field controversy is truly about racism in our present eventing community. Sorry… but that is just not how I see it.

But I think there is a lot of tension in our society surrounding race right now. For many reasons. And I can understand the argument the name might be easily misattributed, and that perhaps a name change for this venue is worth considering.

Soooo… if some of you can get to this point of my line of reasoning… and concede that MAYBE we have some common ground up to this point…

We get to mid summer, of 2020. Leslie and EN engaged directly with Glaccum and the PFEE board… which includes the land owner… and essentially said “You should change the name now because it seems like a racist name.”

And Glaccum and the land owner said, “No.”

Can we all agree on my train of thought up until this point? Can we just find some middle ground, moderate ourselves a bit… and follow along on the basic sequence of what happened up until this point in an unfortunate series of events?

For those who are still with me… this is the point at which I think we all reach a fundamental divide. Some folks think Glaccum and the PFEE board abd land owner said “No” to a name change because of “white fragility” and some sort of actual racism. But please realize… those of you who think this are on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion. The majority of folks are somewhere in the middle… and think something along the lines of, “Gosh. That’s a super tight timeline to change the name of an FEI event, and though we don’t really know Glaccum and Walker, and can’t say for sure whether or not they are racist jerks, we can totally understand how they would tell Leslie and EN that a name change was a hard No as of late summer 2020. And it just seems so weird that Leslie and EN weren’t more diplomatic and patient and constructive in their discussions.” And then, there are folks on the other side of the spectrum that think, “Gosh. These people are totally politically correct idiots and they should shut the f up. Who cares about this stupidity!”

Anyway… that’s how I see it. People arguing with some of you who think this is all about racism on this thread? Well… most of us fall in the middle or on on one end of the spectrum of thought. Honestly though… I think it’s CRAZY to label many of us “racist” simply because we think Leslie and EN handled this TERRIBLY.

I think some of you are passionate idealists. That’s great. But when it comes to complicated societal issues related to race in America, and the lasting legacy of slavery and Jim Crow? I think casually labeling large portions of American society “racist” is divisive and counterproductive. I think we have to dig deeper, be more thoughtful, and come together as a society to make real progress on tough issues.

I hope this post is something that some of you can actually “hear.” I can be sharp and opinionated and snide. I’m trying to say something more moderate and conciliatory with this post though.

[Gardenhorse]

@pluvinel

You are missing the bigger picture. This is not a debate about “racism.” It is a discussion about a landowner’s prerogative to do with his land as he pleases.

It is a debate about a property owner’s rights, and his ability to allow people on his land or to kick people off his land.

In the current case, the reason given for kicking people off his land is centered around the use of the word “plantation.” It could just as easily have been because he “It was a full moon and he just felt like it.”

It is the landowner’s exclusive perogative to decide if he opens his land to others and who he allows on his land.

The “racism” discuss belongs elsewhere.

If USEA/USEF decided that use of the word “plantation” was offensive, then they could have easily given the organizer and landowner a choice…change the name, or have event not recognized.

How that conversation could / should have been conducted is another subject for discussion.

But ultimately, it is the landowner who holds the cards as he has the right to shut access to his land.

I’m sorry, but I don’t know who you think you are debating about property owner’s rights. I have never said that the owner didn’t have the right to cancel the lease and I don’t believe anyone else has said that either. I completely agree that he has the right to do whatever he wants with his property.

[Ghazzu]

@Gardenhorse

In my opinion, the argument that something like racism isn’t being protested in the “right” way is a common means of deflection from people who have no intention of ever changing their attitudes or actions. It changes the focus of discussion to the actions of the people bringing up the concerns rather than the actual issue itself.

Perhaps, but from my perspective, doing it the “wrong” way here fails to produce the desired result, and I’m apparently too old and set in my ways to see how that benefits anyone.

It is similar to demonstrations which block highways. While I understand the concept behind such a move, the results are generally to anger the public and make them less sympathetic to the protesters’ point of view.
Tactics matter.

[B_and_B]

@sing

MorganSercu, What I am trying to get at is the frustration some people are having with “The Thickies” that are hung up on the word plantation, and cannot seem to grasp the idea that in this iteration it is not racist.

We (oh noooo, I have just self-identified as a Thickie) understand the explanation about pine trees and the totally not racist climate of 1930’s PA. We are just not buying it. Or we are not completely convinced. We are open to entertaining the possibility that might have had malign intent at the time.

Oh for the love of all that is… the 1930’s was incredibly racist, I totally agree. However, I really do not think that some guy in Pennsylvania in a hard abolitionist/Quaker area is going to make some sort of 21st century racist dog whistle by using the words ‘Plantation Field’ when in that area and throughout any area with active forestry projects ‘plantation’ was used all the time. I can pull up thousands of property maps, all with plantation on them. It has nothing, nothing to do with race.
Furthermore, these sorts of nefarious, coded dog whistles look great in movies and fiction. But guess what, people are not that smart. If the guy was racist in the 1930’s, he would have been obvious about it. For that matter, it wouldn’t have been a good racist dogwhistle in the 1990’s. Why? Ask the question: Was the word seen as problematic (and therefor usable as a coded dogwhistle?) in the 1990’s? No. Therefore, it would not work as a statement of racism in that time period. Now…if he was naming a brand new event today, in 2020 (but not 2019), I would agree that the name was stupid at best and definitely not to be used.
Now, is it progress that we are more sensitive to the fact that certain words have multiple meanings and some of those meanings are deeply painful? I think so. Does that mean that everything that ever occurred in our history that doesn’t conform to our current thinking on race is racist? Apparently in today’s climate, it does. I think you can probably guess where I am on that.
Now, crawling back under my rock.

[pluvinel]

@Gardenhorse

I’m sorry, but I don’t know who you think you are debating about property owner’s rights. I have never said that the owner didn’t have the right to cancel the lease and I don’t believe anyone else has said that either. I completely agree that he has the right to do whatever he wants with his property.

Ok…I apologize if I misinterpreted your posts.

[TheMoo]

@ohmyheck

Thank you Gardenhorse, I had a similar answer typed out but you beat me to it. I can’t speak to the whole thread but in the last 30 pages or so I haven’t seen anyone argue against the rights of the land owner to do exactly, 100% as he chooses with his own land. One hundo p.

And to say this debate isn’t also about racism (in general but also specific to this situation - please and thanks) and could just as well be about the cycle of the moon is confusing to me as well.

@pluvinel I read your views with interest but I can’t seem to nail down what I’m missing in this case.

I’m quoting again since people seem to be missing this point in order to call people racist.

[TheMoo]

@Ghazzu

I don’t think most of us here believe it would never come up as an issue.
The point is the manner in which the issue was raised was ham-handed and the end result was not only less than optimal, it was abysmal, at least for most of those who are even aware of eventing.
It may have raised the profile of EN, and I truly believe that was a major subtext in the whole sorry affair.

Quoting again because people seem to keep missing this point. It’s not racist to disagree with the execution.

[pluvinel]

@ohmyheck

…
@pluvinel I read your views with interest but I can’t seem to nail down what I’m missing in this case.

What I am trying to get across is that the landowner is totally within his rights to shut off access to his land for whatever reason he chooses…including the phase of the moon…the high tide…or that Mercury is in retrograde.

Both the organizer and the landower have been raked over the coals in this thread and in mainstream media with allegations of being “racist.”

I am trying to separate the rights of the landowner, with the second issue being discussed… which is the question about the use of the word “plantation.”

If someone(s) objected to the use of the word “plantation” in the name of a recognized even, then there are procedures in place in both USEF and USEA to address member initiatives. Those procedures do not seem to have been followed.

[ladyj79]

FWIW, disagreeing that the word “plantation” is a racist dog whistle is also not racist.

[anon6003733]

Thanks @pluvinel. I agree with you as to the two issues being separate.

[Gardenhorse]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Well… that’s an interesting comment.

But here’s the thing… when it comes to Plantation Field… who were the “racists” in this story, and what sort of “racism” was being “protested?”

The origins of the name of this eventing venue have been THOROUGHLY discussed in this thread.

The origins of the name of the venue were not racist, in almost everyone’s opinion. Do you disagree? If so… why?

An argument has been made that it doesn’t matter why the venue was named “Plantation Field”… what matters is that the origins of the name might be easily misconstrued/misunderstood, and insensitive to black participants in sport. And this could cause black participants, and spectators and vendors to feel uncomfortable with this venue, and alienated.

I honestly think that’s a fair argument. But again… I don’t see a blatant problem with the venue, the sport, the organizer, or the land owner in terms of actual racism. There is an argument that perhaps MIGHT be made related to “disparate impact.” A variation of that sort of thinking could lead a person to declare eventing in general is a “racist” sport because the participants are disproportionately white. But when talking about “disparate impact” types of issues, and a need for more diversity in any number of societal areas… typically solutions do not involve “quick fixes.” And typically people do not declaratively assert that a lack of diversity in the present is directly a result of racism in the present. Often… it’s more accurately a result of racism that defined our society in prior eras.

So let me be blunt… I do not think the Plantation Field controversy is truly about racism in our present eventing community. Sorry… but that is just not how I see it.

But I think there is a lot of tension in our society surrounding race right now. For many reasons. And I can understand the argument the name might be easily misattributed, and that perhaps a name change for this venue is worth considering.

Soooo… if some of you can get to this point of my line of reasoning… and concede that MAYBE we have some common ground up to this point…

We get to mid summer, of 2020. Leslie and EN engaged directly with Glaccum and the PFEE board… which includes the land owner… and essentially said “You should change the name now because it seems like a racist name.”

And Glaccum and the land owner said, “No.”

Can we all agree on my train of thought up until this point? Can we just find some middle ground, moderate ourselves a bit… and follow along on the basic sequence of what happened up until this point in an unfortunate series of events?

For those who are still with me… this is the point at which I think we all reach a fundamental divide. Some folks think Glaccum and the PFEE board abd land owner said “No” to a name change because of “white fragility” and some sort of actual racism. But please realize… those of you who think this are on the extreme end of the spectrum of opinion. The majority of folks are somewhere in the middle… and think something along the lines of, “Gosh. That’s a super tight timeline to change the name of an FEI event, and though we don’t really know Glaccum and Walker, and can’t say for sure whether or not they are racist jerks, we can totally understand how they would tell Leslie and EN that a name change was a hard No as of late summer 2020. And it just seems so weird that Leslie and EN weren’t more diplomatic and patient and constructive in their discussions.” And then, there are folks on the other side of the spectrum that think, “Gosh. These people are totally politically correct idiots and they should shut the f up. Who cares about this stupidity!”

Anyway… that’s how I see it. People arguing with some of you who think this is all about racism on this thread? Well… most of us fall in the middle or on on one end of the spectrum of thought. Honestly though… I think it’s CRAZY to label many of us “racist” simply because we think Leslie and EN handled this TERRIBLY.

I think some of you are passionate idealists. That’s great. But when it comes to complicated societal issues related to race in America, and the lasting legacy of slavery and Jim Crow? I think casually labeling large portions of American society “racist” is divisive and counterproductive. I think we have to dig deeper, be more thoughtful, and come together as a society to make real progress on tough issues.

I hope this post is something that some of you can actually “hear.” I can be sharp and opinionated and snide. I’m trying to say something more moderate and conciliatory with this post though.

I think you’ve hit on one of our main areas of disagreement, which is that you assume one of the main issues that made Glaccum/Walker upset was the timing of the name change. Where have Glaccum/Walker ever indicated that the timing was their main issue? I assume that their main issue was that they were fundamentally opposed to the idea of changing it, period, regardless of timing or who was asking. So, I think that even if EN had approached it more diplomatically, it’s possible the results would have been the same.

I admit that my thinking on this issue has changed over the course of the discussion. I used to think that EN’s approach was part of the problem, and now I am much less convinced of that. Part of that change was learning more about the types of things that the organizer allegedly posted on his Facebook page. It just makes me doubt that he would ever have been open to a calm discussion of the topic. Part of it was about how even in this discussion we disagreed about the tone and rudeness or lack thereof in the few emails we did see between Leslie and others. But another large part of it has been due to reading more about racism and anti-racism, questioning my own assumptions and biases, and thinking more about the arguments and topics that people keep coming back to in this discussion.

[pluvinel]

FWIW, I looked at the USEF web site for recognized events. Since I am no longer an active member of USEF, so I could do only a limited competition search. Between today and November 2021, there are about 114 licensed competitions.

There are only a few held on public lands. (Like Bucks County Horse Park, Florida Ag Center & Horse Park, Fair Hill, etc).

I suggest that eventers should have a landowner appreciation outreach effort.

If I were a landowner, hosting a USEA event on my property, I would be looking at the fallout of Plantation Field and rethinking allowing an event to be held on my land.

[pluvinel]

@Gardenhorse

I think you’ve hit on one of our main areas of disagreement, which is that you assume one of the main issues that made Glaccum/Walker upset was the timing of the name change. Where have Glaccum/Walker ever indicated that the timing was their main issue? I assume that their main issue was that they were fundamentally opposed to the idea of changing it, period, regardless of timing or who was asking. So, I think that even if EN had approached it more diplomatically, it’s possible the results would have been the same.

I admit that my thinking on this issue has changed over the course of the discussion. I used to think that EN’s approach was part of the problem, and now I am much less convinced of that. Part of that change was learning more about the types of things that the organizer allegedly posted on his Facebook page. It just makes me doubt that he would ever have been open to a calm discussion of the topic. Part of it was about how even in this discussion we disagreed about the tone and rudeness or lack thereof in the few emails we did see between Leslie and others. But another large part of it has been due to reading more about racism and anti-racism, questioning my own assumptions and biases, and thinking more about the arguments and topics that people keep coming back to in this discussion.

@Gardenhorse …This is where I keep going back to your posts.

Glaccum’s political postings on his FB page are irrelevant.

This man spent +40 years organizing major eventing competitions. If he decided he was not willing to consider a name change of an event he created…from scratch, he can decide to tell people to pound sand.

The event organizer’s rights to name his “creation” whatever he wants are the same as those of the landowner to do with his land as he wishes.

If the sanctioning bodies decided that the “name” was inappropriate, then that is another discussion about how to deal with changing the name of a long-standing, historically important event.