Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

So true! Look at the likes of so very many successful, forward-thinking, and/or entrepreneurial POC. For example, Bernard and Shirley Kinsey. They met in the mid 60s in very racist Tallahassee when she was arrested for participating in a protest and he was one of the organizers. Upon graduating from FAMU and marrying they moved to LA, because there were no great options for a black man in the south.

Nearly 60 years later they are an absolute treasure of a power couple. They did not sit around in the panhandle and whine about being held back. They fā€™ing got after it and their legacy is enduring and inspirational.

http://www.thekinseycollection.com/

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There are certain foundations that if you are going to have a discussion some things might have to be agreed upon?

Say if you are discussing horticulture, say maybe ā€¦ apple trees and saying that you have to be careful when pruning to make sure larger limbs donā€™t fall on your head. And people keep popping up claiming that that is no concern at all because apple trees grow underground, sort of like potatoes.

So you have to spend a whole day reestablishing that apple trees have significant elements that are in fact above ground. So you move forward to pruning and limbs and gravity, and someone says, apples grow completely underground, like potatoes.

It is not so much that you want people to agree with you so much as you want to move the discussion forward, but there is always ā€œpotato guyā€ dragging it back to nil.

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I know you all are thinking that I am a ā€œpotato guy.ā€ Because you know, that lynching thing. And you do have a point.

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Even with your analogy I still say - why does everyone have to agree for you (and the conversation) to move forward.

No amount of you stomping your feet is going to make that person think like you think. (Or make me change how I use the current like system, for example.) Just continue on with your apple trimming instructions instead of weighing down the rest of the conversation with something from 30 pages ago.

If you (general) are using the potato guy as your excuse why nothing at all can move forward, you are just as much of the problem as the potato guy.

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No! I am not like the potato guy. I am the potato guy!

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It is as if you wanted to talk about Shetland ponies and people keep saying ā€œyeah those wild animals that are striped.ā€ And you say no ponies! not zebras!!, and they say ā€œyeah love those stripes.ā€

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I will clarify that I donā€™t need people to agree with me, and quite honestly I donā€™t always agree with myself. But you do have to have some basic agreement on some fundamentals, or you will wind upā€¦Say, ā€¦having a 92 page discussion on a horse board.

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OK. You can think that.

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OK. Thanks Trub. I am off to change my name to ā€œPotato Guy.ā€

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What?!?!?! You mean you dont need to crush bully threaten dox and otherwise assault people who think differently from you?!?!?! Crazy town!!!

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Iā€™ve said over and over again, Iā€™m not trying to change anyoneā€™s mind. What Iā€™ve found from listening to POC on the PF controversy is that the reaction online particularly Facebook and COTH have been very hurtful. Iā€™m not shocked by that, thereā€™s a handful of comments that are overtly racist, covertly racist, insensitive, ignorant, and or riddled with misinformation. Thereā€™s a lot of people liking those posts and not a lot of people denouncing them. Systemic racism is real and we need to fight that by being actively anti racist and not just ā€œnot racistā€Ā.

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Uhhhhā€¦ you do realize that there are ā€œPOCā€Ā who are involved in Eventing and have spoken up on Facebook and elsewhere and said they think this whole controversy over the name of the venue was overblown, and they are more upset over the loss of this venue due to poor communication skills by multiple parties than anything else?

Your comment reads a bit oddly to meā€¦

EITHER

  1. You believe all black people involved in equestrian activities think and feel the same about this controversy, and other issues.

OR

  1. You are actively disregarding and ignoring the thoughts and feelings of black people involved in equestrian activities who see this issue differently than you do. Those black people do existā€¦ Iā€™ve seen plenty of nuanced commentary and feedback from black equestrians on social media about this issueā€¦ and their commentary and feedback are NOT all as you describe.
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This has literally happened by this user on this thread. The same conversation keeps occurring, because people keep engaging this person who thinks as you just stated that all black people are a monolith and/or that the only poc voices that should be elevated are the ones that agree with her.

Which isā€¦suboptimal.

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Sigh. You arenā€™t winning people to your position by saying that ā€œwe all need to fight by being actively anti-racistā€ as opposed to just being ā€œnot racist.ā€ No, no we donā€™t. I donā€™t want to march for BLM, even if I may be sympathetic to their concerns. Iā€™m old and tired (yeah, yeah ā€œok Boomerā€ or whateverā€¦) I prefer having discussions with people, listening to their thoughts and feelings, and gently persuading them to consider another position ā€“ that is one of the rare instances when change my actually stick. ā€œCorneringā€ any being ā€“ four-legged or two-legged ā€“ is when you are likely to get hurt. You seem to agree with this way of handling horses ā€“ perhaps consider that this would be a great way to deal with people too.

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@Equkelly Ya knowā€¦ this comment made me think. Just a few comments ago you were actually chiding people for ā€œlikingā€Ā a post that had some thoughts about systemic racism many of us donā€™t totally agree with, but referred to a list of black thinkers and authorsā€¦ some of whom Iā€™ll admit I think are well worth reading.

The logic you applied in that situation was that we shouldnā€™t ā€œlikeā€Ā a post of we arenā€™t 100% in agreement with all the things expressed in that postā€¦ only some of them. Because itā€™s ā€œdangerousā€Ā to casually give a thumbs up to something controversial that you only partially agree with.

So what should we do if we donā€™t agree with 100% of the positions expressed by the founders of BLM? Should we ignore BLM, because itā€™s ā€œdangerousā€Ā to just partially support them? I personally donā€™t support some of their Marxist rhetoric, but I do think we need to do better as a society with respect to deep systematic inequalityā€¦ specially in terms educational opportunities for minority children and the way our justice system seems to not work so well in terms of measurable inequalities with respect to plea deals and sentencing for many black men when accused of am crimes.

How can we fulfill your stated belief that we have a responsibility to be actively ā€œanti-racistā€Ā if we only partially support various ideas espoused by the BLM founders and movement? Per your OTHER logic, if we only partially support something, we should simply refrain from clicking the ā€œlikeā€Ā buttonā€¦

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Because nobody gets to tell anyone else what they are and are not allowed to be hurt by. Iā€™m not denying that there are POC that were not hurt by the name, but there are some that are and those voices donā€™t get to be excused.

Also this thread didnā€™t spend 93 pages talking about just the name. Weā€™ve talked about white privilege, systemic racism, white fragility, affirmative action practices, and more.

If you think Iā€™d still be here after all the hate Iā€™ve gotten, after all the people who keep mocking me, all the people who have tried to discredit me and nearly dox me, after most of you have said you hope I never join the eventing world, over JUST the freaking name? Wrong.

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Who tried to dox you? Doxxing is not cool. Not at all. Iā€™ve been on the receiving end of that as wellā€¦ on this thread and othersā€¦

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Having been threatened with doxxing by a cother who didnā€™t appreciate my pro safe sport stanceā€¦which is crazy, but whatever, rest assured that whatever I think of anyoneā€™s internet crazy, Iā€™m not from the party of trying to burn peopleā€™s lives down because of their opinions anywhere.

I firmly believe that whole I may not agree with you, but I defend your right to say it jazz.

Which is of course why Iā€™m also not for threatening a dude who owns land I want to horse sport on with a media mob and ā€œcancellingā€.

Iā€™m really not for threatening anyone who disagrees with me.

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@Virginia Horse Mom

Re: your response [LIST=1]

  • Genuinely not sure why youā€™re having trouble following as it seems straight forward and simple. You have gone on at length about your concern that the LO feared the media and you believe rightfully so. My point: if youā€™re concerned for an incredibly wealthy and well-connected white land owner experiencing negative fallout from this, imagine what a rider or local resident of colour might also be fearing as fall out if s/he came forward as one of the people uncomfortable with the name.
  • Addressed by @Marigold. Thanks ever so much. Itā€™s difficult and uncomfortable to come out on this thread as not in line with the vocal majority, so I appreciate the support. The bullying, mocking, naming calling, and doxing Iā€™ve seen here has not been on the side of the minority position.
  • Ok [/LIST][LIST=1]
  • Iā€™m not sympathetic to the ages-old device of excusing bad behaviour by employing softening descriptions like: silly, political, curmudgeon, character, somewhat offensive, etc. For so long society has gone out of its way to avoid being frank and truthful about behaviours exhibited by those in power. Yet, thereā€™s no such inhibition about harsh assessments of behaviour for folks who are young, women, not of the dominant ethnicity/religion, poor, immigrants, LGBTQ, etc. I donā€™t see anyone describing people they donā€™t care for here (e.g., Equkelly) as silly or a character. Nope, she and others not in line with the majority have our words quoted back to us and are charged with explaining and defending them, and Iā€™m fine with that. Itā€™s only the Glaccumā€™s of the world who get to post outrageous stuff and have it sloughed off as silly, political, no harm really, just like my crazy uncle ā€“ whatever it takes to ensure they have no accountability for their behaviour. [/LIST]
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    Hmmm, my counting is not so good. 1, 2, 3, 1. Obviously meant 4.

    Iā€™ll expand on 4. because you did, but I HATE long posts. Like, irrationally so. I hate that I choose to respond in long form in these discussions. Ugh. Must work on that. So, consider my badly numbered post my reply to VHM and apologies for the length of the rest. Please feel free to skip it!

    If you have a ā€œcrazy uncleā€Ā and the stuff he posts is okay with you, then so be it. Iā€™m not okay with that stuff. What some dismiss as bizarre can have real life consequences (e.g., armed man showing up at pizza parlour; plans to kidnap elected officials) so Iā€™m not inclined to brush a lot of this stuff off. Further, if you place yourself in the public realm willingly, actively promoting your activities and eagerly cooperating in media coverage about your event, yourself, your wife, and your lifestyle, you cannot subsequently be upset if people notice your other public behaviour and take issue with it.

    Those of us in the professional world (and most who have no such professional concerns) understand that how we conduct ourselves in public, both IRL and online, reflects on our character and values. It can also reflect on our professional lives and associations. Mr. Glaccum seems not to have understood this or he doesnā€™t care. If that latter, thatā€™s his prerogative. Neither, however, is indicative of a sophisticated (nuanced?) understanding of current standards of professional conduct.

    Posts like that may have contributed to the problem with the name issue. I can see how it could call into question the claims that the name and the refusal to entertain calling it anything else had no basis in bias if the leadership of the organization were behaving that way in public. Again, free to post/say/do what he pleases; not free from reactions to/consequences of doing so. I do not want him stopped from making such posts. I actually see the value in that public behaviour for myself b/c it makes it easier for me to avoid connections that would embarrass or reflect poorly on me if those values and sentiments remained hidden. Itā€™s tantamount to a public service for people who want to steer well clear of that BS.

    Most of us understand that we cannot say or do anything we want without consequences if it reflects poorly on our associates and employers/businesses and our own judgement. If I were a wealthy, educated, dominant culture figure who was trying to promote a big event and raise money for charity and grow the consumer base for my product, I would not post that kind of crap. If I did and I got blowback for it, Iā€™d not whinge that itā€™s not fair that people object to the hurtful crap I post and itā€™s my right and tHe fiRSt AmendMEnt!!1!!

    Iā€™d own that either I had poor judgement and impulse control, or that I didnā€™t give a ruddy ratā€™s arse so all you snowflakes just suck it up! But, either way, I would be bright enough and self-aware enough not to blame others for merely reacting to my choice to represent myself a certain way in public.

    I scrupulously avoid any association with that kind of thing for my personal and professional integrity. I donā€™t want to be seen as giving even unintentional support to those kinds of actions, words, or sentiments which is why Iā€™d steer clear of events lead by people who behave that way. And thatā€™s my choice and itā€™s a perfectly rational reaction to clearly offensive memes and posts.

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