I will clarify that I don’t need people to agree with me, and quite honestly I don’t always agree with myself. But you do have to have some basic agreement on some fundamentals, or you will wind up…Say, …having a 92 page discussion on a horse board.
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OK. You can think that.
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OK. Thanks Trub. I am off to change my name to “Potato Guy.”
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What?!?!?! You mean you dont need to crush bully threaten dox and otherwise assault people who think differently from you?!?!?! Crazy town!!!
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I’ve said over and over again, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. What I’ve found from listening to POC on the PF controversy is that the reaction online particularly Facebook and COTH have been very hurtful. I’m not shocked by that, there’s a handful of comments that are overtly racist, covertly racist, insensitive, ignorant, and or riddled with misinformation. There’s a lot of people liking those posts and not a lot of people denouncing them. Systemic racism is real and we need to fight that by being actively anti racist and not just “not racist”.
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Uhhhh… you do realize that there are “POC” who are involved in Eventing and have spoken up on Facebook and elsewhere and said they think this whole controversy over the name of the venue was overblown, and they are more upset over the loss of this venue due to poor communication skills by multiple parties than anything else?
Your comment reads a bit oddly to me…
EITHER
- You believe all black people involved in equestrian activities think and feel the same about this controversy, and other issues.
OR
- You are actively disregarding and ignoring the thoughts and feelings of black people involved in equestrian activities who see this issue differently than you do. Those black people do exist… I’ve seen plenty of nuanced commentary and feedback from black equestrians on social media about this issue… and their commentary and feedback are NOT all as you describe.
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This has literally happened by this user on this thread. The same conversation keeps occurring, because people keep engaging this person who thinks as you just stated that all black people are a monolith and/or that the only poc voices that should be elevated are the ones that agree with her.
Which is…suboptimal.
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Sigh. You aren’t winning people to your position by saying that “we all need to fight by being actively anti-racist” as opposed to just being “not racist.” No, no we don’t. I don’t want to march for BLM, even if I may be sympathetic to their concerns. I’m old and tired (yeah, yeah “ok Boomer” or whatever…) I prefer having discussions with people, listening to their thoughts and feelings, and gently persuading them to consider another position – that is one of the rare instances when change my actually stick. “Cornering” any being – four-legged or two-legged – is when you are likely to get hurt. You seem to agree with this way of handling horses – perhaps consider that this would be a great way to deal with people too.
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@Equkelly Ya know… this comment made me think. Just a few comments ago you were actually chiding people for “liking” a post that had some thoughts about systemic racism many of us don’t totally agree with, but referred to a list of black thinkers and authors… some of whom I’ll admit I think are well worth reading.
The logic you applied in that situation was that we shouldn’t “like” a post of we aren’t 100% in agreement with all the things expressed in that post… only some of them. Because it’s “dangerous” to casually give a thumbs up to something controversial that you only partially agree with.
So what should we do if we don’t agree with 100% of the positions expressed by the founders of BLM? Should we ignore BLM, because it’s “dangerous” to just partially support them? I personally don’t support some of their Marxist rhetoric, but I do think we need to do better as a society with respect to deep systematic inequality… specially in terms educational opportunities for minority children and the way our justice system seems to not work so well in terms of measurable inequalities with respect to plea deals and sentencing for many black men when accused of am crimes.
How can we fulfill your stated belief that we have a responsibility to be actively “anti-racist” if we only partially support various ideas espoused by the BLM founders and movement? Per your OTHER logic, if we only partially support something, we should simply refrain from clicking the “like” button…
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Because nobody gets to tell anyone else what they are and are not allowed to be hurt by. I’m not denying that there are POC that were not hurt by the name, but there are some that are and those voices don’t get to be excused.
Also this thread didn’t spend 93 pages talking about just the name. We’ve talked about white privilege, systemic racism, white fragility, affirmative action practices, and more.
If you think I’d still be here after all the hate I’ve gotten, after all the people who keep mocking me, all the people who have tried to discredit me and nearly dox me, after most of you have said you hope I never join the eventing world, over JUST the freaking name? Wrong.
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Who tried to dox you? Doxxing is not cool. Not at all. I’ve been on the receiving end of that as well… on this thread and others…
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Having been threatened with doxxing by a cother who didn’t appreciate my pro safe sport stance…which is crazy, but whatever, rest assured that whatever I think of anyone’s internet crazy, I’m not from the party of trying to burn people’s lives down because of their opinions anywhere.
I firmly believe that whole I may not agree with you, but I defend your right to say it jazz.
Which is of course why I’m also not for threatening a dude who owns land I want to horse sport on with a media mob and “cancelling”.
I’m really not for threatening anyone who disagrees with me.
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@Virginia Horse Mom
Re: your response [LIST=1]
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Hmmm, my counting is not so good. 1, 2, 3, 1. Obviously meant 4.
I’ll expand on 4. because you did, but I HATE long posts. Like, irrationally so. I hate that I choose to respond in long form in these discussions. Ugh. Must work on that. So, consider my badly numbered post my reply to VHM and apologies for the length of the rest. Please feel free to skip it!
If you have a “crazy uncle” and the stuff he posts is okay with you, then so be it. I’m not okay with that stuff. What some dismiss as bizarre can have real life consequences (e.g., armed man showing up at pizza parlour; plans to kidnap elected officials) so I’m not inclined to brush a lot of this stuff off. Further, if you place yourself in the public realm willingly, actively promoting your activities and eagerly cooperating in media coverage about your event, yourself, your wife, and your lifestyle, you cannot subsequently be upset if people notice your other public behaviour and take issue with it.
Those of us in the professional world (and most who have no such professional concerns) understand that how we conduct ourselves in public, both IRL and online, reflects on our character and values. It can also reflect on our professional lives and associations. Mr. Glaccum seems not to have understood this or he doesn’t care. If that latter, that’s his prerogative. Neither, however, is indicative of a sophisticated (nuanced?) understanding of current standards of professional conduct.
Posts like that may have contributed to the problem with the name issue. I can see how it could call into question the claims that the name and the refusal to entertain calling it anything else had no basis in bias if the leadership of the organization were behaving that way in public. Again, free to post/say/do what he pleases; not free from reactions to/consequences of doing so. I do not want him stopped from making such posts. I actually see the value in that public behaviour for myself b/c it makes it easier for me to avoid connections that would embarrass or reflect poorly on me if those values and sentiments remained hidden. It’s tantamount to a public service for people who want to steer well clear of that BS.
Most of us understand that we cannot say or do anything we want without consequences if it reflects poorly on our associates and employers/businesses and our own judgement. If I were a wealthy, educated, dominant culture figure who was trying to promote a big event and raise money for charity and grow the consumer base for my product, I would not post that kind of crap. If I did and I got blowback for it, I’d not whinge that it’s not fair that people object to the hurtful crap I post and it’s my right and tHe fiRSt AmendMEnt!!1!!
I’d own that either I had poor judgement and impulse control, or that I didn’t give a ruddy rat’s arse so all you snowflakes just suck it up! But, either way, I would be bright enough and self-aware enough not to blame others for merely reacting to my choice to represent myself a certain way in public.
I scrupulously avoid any association with that kind of thing for my personal and professional integrity. I don’t want to be seen as giving even unintentional support to those kinds of actions, words, or sentiments which is why I’d steer clear of events lead by people who behave that way. And that’s my choice and it’s a perfectly rational reaction to clearly offensive memes and posts.
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I also probably don’t support 100% of the views of the founders for the BLM movement. But I still feel comfortable saying “black lives matter” and supporting others, and liking and sharing posts because the phrase “black lives matter” SHOULD NOT hurt anyone or make anyone feel marginalized.
But when you somebody says things like “systemic racism isn’t real” that’s deeply hurtful to the people experiencing it so I personally wouldn’t be comfortable amplifying that voice.
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It’s really a miracle that we get along then :lol: Always something I’m working on myself.
This might be the best post of the entire 93 pages. Thank you.
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Sounds like “punching up” is ok with some. I stand in the camp of “no punching”.
Rhode Island voters vote to remove Plantation from name;
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Well, hardly unanimous, but at least it was put to a legitimate vote amongst residents/stakeholders.
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I cannot STAND this new format and I have no idea if this has been posted, but it appears that Plantation Field plans on hosting events next year, depending on the response from the USEA, under the Plantation Fields name.
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