Eventing's Biggest Enemy?

[redalter]

[QUOTE=frugalannie;8940445]
There are a lot of people whom I have gotten to know via this forum whose thoughtful posts I greatly respect. You all know who you are ;). There are also some new folks with ideas whom I read and think “well thought out and expressed: let me consider their point of view”. Brat, you are one of those.

I’m reading the “defenders” for lack of a better term, and while I understand their position, I respectfully add that they are missing the point. OP was in a difficult position. If Brat made the comments too general, they would be blown up as lacking proof. If too specific, they’d be blown up for starting a witch hunt. I think Brat tried to walk the middle line and was quite successful in making the point.

BECAUSE part of the point is that in this day and age, whatever you do becomes public quite rapidly in the interwebz and it has just been resoundingly demonstrated the appearance of fact is close enough for government work. The perception of our sport is harmed by actions that may have a reasonable purpose/ defense, but can be abstracted such that even educated horsemen can and do consider them “over the line”, not to mention others who might not have as much experience. And I personally find it sad and repugnant. Those who are the role models and teachers of others should be like Caesar’s wife IMHO, or at least try to be.

Last evening I had the pleasure of chatting with an extremely knowledgeable person with decades of involvement in eventing in the “back of the house”, so to speak, at the level of international competitions. I will not say anything more specific because I don’t have permission to identify him/her. But they flat out said that things have changed drastically over the years, and that their heart aches for many of the upper level horses because of the drive to succeed at whatever the cost. The good news is that it was also noted that there are still FEI level riders who truly have a good partnership with their horses and put them first. The problem is that the percentage is shrinking.

Finally Brat, thanks for officiating for 40 years![/QUOTE]

OUTSTANDING post. THANK YOU!!

And Brat, thank you too!!

[Winding_Down]

If you do not like what is happening in this sport, get off your arses, stop whining about it, and DO something. Is it too scary to take action? Is it easier to go on witch hunts and talk about how horrid our sport has become (since the long format went away)?

Does anyone think that this sort of discussion is doing anyone any good at all?

This is another one of those threads that points fingers, promotes gossip, and generates animosity. If you want to give this sport a bad name, gossiping online is just the way to do it.

Oh CoTH!

[lucegoose]

[QUOTE=Jealoushe;8940695]
This thread is turning into exactly what the OPs point was. Nothing will change because we can’t ever call out people for their actions without being “meanies”.

Just once I would love to see someone say “yeah I did that to my horse, it was a mistake and I am ashamed and won’t be doing it again”.

Instead it’s always…that never happened, you weren’t there, excuse excuse excuse.[/QUOTE]

Lots of riders do own up to poor choices/mistakes. Look at Steffen Peters and the unfortunate spur rub. My personal favorite was Tina Konyat’s statement regarding her yellow card at NAJYRC. :lol: I also think Buck’s response to his yellow card with the ropes incident was pretty classy and well-handled.

[lucegoose]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8940731]
If you do not like what is happening in this sport, get off your arses, stop whining about it, and DO something. Is it too scary to take action? Is it easier to go on witch hunts and talk about how horrid our sport has become (since the long format went away)?

Does anyone think that this sort of discussion is doing anyone any good at all?

This is another one of those threads that points fingers, promotes gossip, and generates animosity. If you want to give this sport a bad name, gossiping online is just the way to do it.

Oh CoTH![/QUOTE]

THANK YOU. :applause::applause::applause::applause:

If you see something, REPORT IT. Take a picture/video with your phone, and make sure people hear about it.

If someone tells you they saw something, tell them to report it.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8940731]
If you do not like what is happening in this sport, get off your arses, stop whining about it, and DO something. Is it too scary to take action? Is it easier to go on witch hunts and talk about how horrid our sport has become (since the long format went away)?

Does anyone think that this sort of discussion is doing anyone any good at all?

This is another one of those threads that points fingers, promotes gossip, and generates animosity. If you want to give this sport a bad name, gossiping online is just the way to do it.

Oh CoTH![/QUOTE]

Then stay off these threads. You always come here to scold - it must be a catharsis for you in some way. To each their own, as they say.

This forum is a community. People gain strength, insight and understanding by discussing their sport and passion with others. And there’s no reason to accuse people of not doing anything. That’s simply not true of many people on this forum, but you already know that because it’s all been told to you before.

[redalter]

FWIW, I DO.

When I saw an ULR having his WS wtc his horse in the SJ warm up and oh, by the way, it was a “little off”, I said something to an official. I was told “okay” - I said - go look. Okay.

Nothing done. Horse went into sj then out to XC.

When I renewed my membership this year, I attached a letter that took me about two weeks to write - it was only a page and a half long, but I think I did a fair job in expressing my concerns about the sport, and the evolution of the sport over the last 30 years or so. Particularly the last 10 years.

And yes, I did use ML as an example.

I got a receipt e mail for my membership. And that’s it.
Nothing else. And I cannot afford to go to the annual meeting, so that’s not an avenue for me.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=redalter;8940753]

I got a receipt e mail for my membership. And that’s it.
Nothing else. And I cannot afford to go to the annual meeting, so that’s not an avenue for me.[/QUOTE]

Can you attend your area meeting? Those are typically closer to where you live and over a weekend. Can you talk to some one who is going to the annual meeting? I found sending a letter directly to someone is more likely to get a response.

But you should continue to speak up. Our sport is NOT that large…voices are heard.

[redalter]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8940761]
Can you attend your area meeting? Those are typically closer to where you live and over a weekend. Can you talk to some one who is going to the annual meeting? I found sending a letter directly to someone is more likely to get a response.

But you should continue to speak up. Our sport is NOT that large…voices are heard.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I will.

And I do. I’m not at all bitchy about it, or whiny, just matter of fact.

[SnicklefritzG]

[QUOTE=lucegoose;8940738]
Lots of riders do own up to poor choices/mistakes. Look at Steffen Peters and the unfortunate spur rub. My personal favorite was Tina Konyat’s statement regarding her yellow card at NAJYRC. :lol: I also think Buck’s response to his yellow card with the ropes incident was pretty classy and well-handled.[/QUOTE]

I don’t recall what Buck said about his yellow card, but I do remember Steffen Peters. He was super classy about it. I felt really bad for him.

People like ML just make me sick. I still find it difficult to believe she hasn’t been reprimanded in some way.

[vineyridge]

OT, but the Southern “you all” is very clear and always is plural and rather general.

[Highflyer]

[QUOTE=redalter;8940753]
FWIW, I DO.

When I saw an ULR having his WS wtc his horse in the SJ warm up and oh, by the way, it was a “little off”, I said something to an official. I was told “okay” - I said - go look. Okay.

Nothing done. Horse went into sj then out to XC.

When I renewed my membership this year, I attached a letter that took me about two weeks to write - it was only a page and a half long, but I think I did a fair job in expressing my concerns about the sport, and the evolution of the sport over the last 30 years or so. Particularly the last 10 years.

And yes, I did use ML as an example.

I got a receipt e mail for my membership. And that’s it.
Nothing else. And I cannot afford to go to the annual meeting, so that’s not an avenue for me.[/QUOTE]

Send your letter to COTH and the USEA magazine as well. Can’t hurt, might help. And fwiw, I am all in favor of speaking up. But I think it is problematic to do it anonymously on a message board and especially if it’s done about an incident you have no first hand knowledge of.

[lucegoose]

[QUOTE=redalter;8940753]
FWIW, I DO.

When I saw an ULR having his WS wtc his horse in the SJ warm up and oh, by the way, it was a “little off”, I said something to an official. I was told “okay” - I said - go look. Okay.

Nothing done.[/QUOTE]

Next time, film it. If nothing is done, post it online. That’s not being a “meanie,” that’s holding a pro accountable for bad behavior. I think the fact that so many took pictures and documented ML’s blood incidents means that the sport is going to have to address it. And at the very least, she is running out of places to hide and it will come back to bite her.

[frugalannie]

Your point is well taken, Redalter. However, I haven’t seen any of these actions myself and therefore can’t notify an official or video. But I can inform myself about instances of things “over the line” via this forum among other sources. And when the number and type of instances reach my tipping point, I will make my opinion known to the USEA. But as you’ve seen, it’s not very effective. Maybe if more of us make our opinion known it will help but I don’t know. Malcolm Hook sometimes posts on these threads so I know they are read. I’m pretty sure anything I do will be a gnat in the wind for the FEI however.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=JER;8940741]
Then stay off these threads. You always come here to scold - it must be a catharsis for you in some way. To each their own, as they say.

This forum is a community. People gain strength, insight and understanding by discussing their sport and passion with others. And there’s no reason to accuse people of not doing anything. That’s simply not true of many people on this forum, but you already know that because it’s all been told to you before.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I don’t. But if there is a “eventing is doomed” thread, I know exactly who will be on it. And if there is a great thread, such as how well Rolex went this year, I know exactly who will NOT be on it.

And I certainly did not accuse people of doing nothing. Heck, I don’t even know who they are. But if you want change, you make change.

Strength, passion, insight, understanding. huh?

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8941022]
Actually, I don’t. [/QUOTE]

You said that in response to my writing this:

And there’s no reason to accuse people of not doing anything. That’s simply not true of many people on this forum, but you already know that because it’s all been told to you before.

Actually, I don’t. That’s your answer?

Aren’t you the same Winding Down who started this thread?

Spin Off: What are YOU doing about safety?

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=JER;8941036]
You said that in response to my writing this:

Actually, I don’t. That’s your answer?

Aren’t you the same Winding Down who started this thread?

Spin Off: What are YOU doing about safety?[/QUOTE]

Of course I am! Your point being… ??

I liked that thread. Thank you for finding it because I was hoping to track it down. But it is good to see that THIS thread has now shifted to the same theme, in some cases. Sometimes, we need to take a turn and shake things up a bit.

[Winding_Down]

[QUOTE=lucegoose;8940740]
THANK YOU. :applause::applause::applause::applause:

If you see something, REPORT IT. Take a picture/video with your phone, and make sure people hear about it.

If someone tells you they saw something, tell them to report it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=redalter;8940753]FWIW, I DO.

When I saw an ULR having his WS wtc his horse in the SJ warm up and oh, by the way, it was a “little off”, I said something to an official. I was told “okay” - I said - go look. Okay.

Nothing done. Horse went into sj then out to XC.

When I renewed my membership this year, I attached a letter that took me about two weeks to write - it was only a page and a half long, but I think I did a fair job in expressing my concerns about the sport, and the evolution of the sport over the last 30 years or so. Particularly the last 10 years.

And yes, I did use ML as an example.

I got a receipt e mail for my membership. And that’s it.
Nothing else. And I cannot afford to go to the annual meeting, so that’s not an avenue for me.[/QUOTE]

Keep working it. It takes time.

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;8940761]Can you attend your area meeting? Those are typically closer to where you live and over a weekend. Can you talk to some one who is going to the annual meeting? I found sending a letter directly to someone is more likely to get a response.

But you should continue to speak up. Our sport is NOT that large…voices are heard.[/QUOTE]

Yes! It takes work. Typing here is easy. This takes persistence.

@Highflyer;8940813

Send your letter to COTH and the USEA magazine as well. Can’t hurt, might help. And fwiw, I am all in favor of speaking up. But I think it is problematic to do it anonymously on a message board and especially if it’s done about an incident you have no first hand knowledge of.

The above is what I find most troublesome about threads such as this. Get your facts straight. We need Snopes for CotH.

@lucegoose;8940825

Next time, film it. If nothing is done, post it online. That’s not being a “meanie,” that’s holding a pro accountable for bad behavior. I think the fact that so many took pictures and documented ML’s blood incidents means that the sport is going to have to address it. And at the very least, she is running out of places to hide and it will come back to bite her.

lucegoose, this is where social media has been powerful. Pictures are indisputable, unlike posting 2nd or 3rd person accounts.

[QUOTE=JER;8941036]You said that in response to my writing this:

Actually, I don’t. That’s your answer?

Aren’t you the same Winding Down who started this thread?

Spin Off: What are YOU doing about safety?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8941337]Of course I am! Your point being… ??

I liked that thread. Thank you for finding it because I was hoping to track it down. But it is good to see that THIS thread has now shifted to the same theme, in some cases. Sometimes, we need to take a turn and shake things up a bit.[/QUOTE]

[LadyB]

[QUOTE=lucegoose;8940825]
Next time, film it. If nothing is done, post it online. That’s not being a “meanie,” that’s holding a pro accountable for bad behavior. I think the fact that so many took pictures and documented ML’s blood incidents means that the sport is going to have to address it. And at the very least, she is running out of places to hide and it will come back to bite her.[/QUOTE]

It HAS been filmed, all 4 occasions have been posted on line… and NOTHING is being done about it. Just another sweep under the rug. You think taking photos and posting it for everyone to see is going to do something, but it happens each time and gets posted, people see it and report it and still NOTHING is or will be done.

[JER]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8941337]
Of course I am! Your point being… ?? [/QUOTE]

Just in case you really are that dense:

1. You came on this thread scolding people to ‘get off your arses, stop whining about it, and DO something’. (That’s a quote from you, in case you’ve forgotten already.)

2. I replied to you that many people on this forum are taking actions to do what they can do to improve the sport. I said that you already knew that, because it had been explained to you previously.

3. You said that you didn’t know that people were taking action.

4. I called to your attention the thread that you started in August that demanded to know what people were doing other than whining on the internet. August wasn’t that long ago, there were about two dozen responses to your thread. You even participated in the discussion, which tends to give the impression that you read your own thread.

5. It is entirely disingenuous for you to come on here again and deny that you know what efforts posters on this forum are making to try and shape the sport in a positive direction. You asked for specifics and you got specifics. So now you’re just insulting your fellow eventers and making false accusations – and you’re the one complaining about ‘whining’?

[Jealoushe]

[QUOTE=Winding Down;8940731]
If you do not like what is happening in this sport, get off your arses, stop whining about it, and DO something. Is it too scary to take action? Is it easier to go on witch hunts and talk about how horrid our sport has become (since the long format went away)?

Does anyone think that this sort of discussion is doing anyone any good at all?

This is another one of those threads that points fingers, promotes gossip, and generates animosity. If you want to give this sport a bad name, gossiping online is just the way to do it.

Oh CoTH![/QUOTE]

As JER pointed out, in the other thread we all have talked about what WE ARE doing. One way to rally up the troops is through social media…which forums fall under…

@lucegoose;8940738

Lots of riders do own up to poor choices/mistakes. Look at Steffen Peters and the unfortunate spur rub. My personal favorite was Tina Konyat’s statement regarding her yellow card at NAJYRC. :lol: I also think Buck’s response to his yellow card with the ropes incident was pretty classy and well-handled.

Except these cases were not bad intentional things. I’m talking about those who have been witnessed abusing their horses or stewards at the show, things that people don’t want to admit.

Hell, I blogged about the one time I lost my temper and hit my horse upside the head. I still hate myself for it but I don’t excuse it away… (link)

[QUOTE=lucegoose;8940740]THANK YOU. :applause::applause::applause::applause:

If you see something, REPORT IT. Take a picture/video with your phone, and make sure people hear about it.

If someone tells you they saw something, tell them to report it.[/QUOTE]

Not always easy to take video, but I always speak up when I see something. A lot of show organizers turn their head, especially when it’s a pro with 8 horses showing that day.

I actually saw a coach beat the hell out of a horse who was quitting at a hunter show. I reported it to the farm owner and show manager, she talked to the judge and judge said since she didn’t see it she can’t so anything. Like what??? The horse was hit as hard as possible at least 14 times. It was disgusting.