Calling attention to the possibility the horse is injured-I’d be ruling that out before wrecking my horse’s brain with sketchy trainers. I’d be talking to a vet and check out his teeth.
Or saddle fit -which if the horse has been in work, or out of work, could change enough to make a well fitting saddle become a problem.
A myriad of physical issues could explain the initial freak out. And then the reaction to this “trainer”.
When our horses speak, we need to be willing to listen.
Investing in quality training, that takes more than a few harsh hours, and, as someone noted, is subtle and “boring”, is how we build and maintain safe, symbiotic relationships with our animals.
Kind, fair, consistent, compassionate, and thoughtful.
That the OP didn’t understand that before using this “trainer” is unfortunate. Maybe she can learn now though?
The OP seems to have left the building, so I suspect she’ll be sticking with this “horsemanship” philosophy and “trainers” who use these methods.
If that’s the horse culture you’re used to, it’s probably pretty hard to grasp the alternatives or see a way out.
I agree, it’s horribly sad.
Horribly sad for the horse. Horribly sad for the husband who it looks like was unnecessarily injured.
Your husband paniced a flight animal that only has 60 days on it by hanging off its side and under its feet in a weird way. It sucks that it happened, but nobody should be taking it personally.
I sure hope nobody beat the bahoohoo out of it or otherwise got after it to after the incident. This is the kind of thing you suck up and remember horses are flight animals who are afraid of stupid stuff some times and they didn’t ask to be our sport pets.
Plus, if this horse was broke out using “laying him down” as a way to “stop the bucking”… he is a flight animal with no coping skills. So he bottles it up until he totally blows with no warning.
These dominance methods are just so unproductive. Doesn’t fix the horse, only puts a bandaid on the problem. The only thing that kind of roughhandedness is good for is petting the ego of the ‘horse tamer’. I did not realize how popular this kind of horse taming was until i got into mustangs. Poor horses. I feel so sorry for the ones that ‘get broke’.
A horse convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.
Poor horse. I hope he has found a new and more qualified home. And I hope the hubby is healing well from what had to be an incredibly scary accident.
I hate trainers who lay horses down. It is like they are trying to take the horse out of the horse. And just make a zombie horse. IMO, they are the ones who are afraid and use over powering the horse over really training the horse.
I am not going to respond to each message because there are too many…all I can say is WOW. This trainer is known for working with problem horses and I am guessing none of you have ever been present for a horse being GENTLY laid down. This is also used very often when gentling mustangs, I have a trainer friend that has rescued many mustangs and she always lays them down. When I was an “english” rider I thought it sounded barbaric but after working with a troubled horse we hit a wall with we found this trainer and he completely turned the horse around. The horse had a huge flight response to everything and could be dangerous. This horse now lives happily with a 65 year old woman who takes him everywhere. Laying a horse down GENTLY allows the horse to understand he can let down and be safe …I have seen it done successfully with many scared horses and have seen it have lasting effects.
As for the horse, this trainer suggested we treat him for ulcers, which we have now done and we have seen a change in his personality. He is back to his playful self with the rest of the herd and I have been riding him without any issues. I am very careful if there are horse flies around because every time they land on him he will start bucking a bit. We completely believe the bucking was caused by a bite, and perhaps he had ulcers then too and was uncomfortable, my husband slamming into him freaked him out and triggered his fight response.
And to clarify once again, this horse had far more then 60 days on him before this event happened, we had owned and ridden the horse for a year before he had his 60 days to fine tune him and get him started working on cattle.
Laying down a horse as a last resort is not the same as laying a horse down as a consistent training method. It is absolutely unnecessary, and instead of teaching the horse they don’t have to run, it teaches them they can’t. It’s a very important distinction.
I wish you and your horse the best.
If this is true, why brutalize him to begin with? (I don’t believe for a nanosecond that a horse can be “GENTLY laid down,” and I find it very hard to believe that anyone with real experience would believe it either.)
Your story isn’t hanging together at all, OP.
Best of luck to your horse.
Never say never.
You can gently lay a horse down.
You find a sandy uneven spot.
Help the horse lay on it’s side from the low to the high side.
Once they have learned to do so, they will lay down on cue.
Or, as we did, every colt we started we would teach the standard series of tricks, stretch, bow, knee, lay down, sit up and stand up.
It was a way to teach a horse to work with you toward’s learning, the tricks a way to do so, any other would work.
I taught this 17 year old broodmare to lay down to trim her feet.
She was sore and would not stand to trim long enough.
After the first time, she would lay down by herself, as she did there, waiting to get her pedicure:
Thanks, Bluey, but I don’t think the OP is talking about a trainer teaching her horse a trick (which is essentially what you’re describing). She’s talking about the forcible “laying down” that’s sometimes employed with problematic or feral horses to “break” them in a hurry.
If you don’t know the difference, I’m sure you can look it up on YouTube. There’s nothing “gentle” about it, either physically or psychologically.
As a teenager, our riding center started many feral horses, males still stallions, our best guess from 4 to 8-9 years old some.
We never laid any of those down, we taught them to longe, then gave me yours truly, the test pilot, a leg up once gentle enough for that, rode around on the longe line for a bit, added reins and turned me loose, following an old school horse around.
In three months most were in use as nice school and trail horses, most sold to other riding centers.
It never did occur to us to have to manhandle those horses, thought fighting horses was western movie fiction.
Later once in the West realized some do start their feral horses by forefooting and jumping on them to keep them down, hogtie them to put some kind of hackamore, etc., as in the movies.
I agree completely. The slow, empathetic way is the best way, and generally produces safe, sane horses in the fullness of time. I think most on this thread agree as well.
Unfortunately, the OP is talking about the way it’s done “in the movies,” which is why she’s getting a certain amount of push-back.
You search out medical options BEFORE seeking out the cowboy trainer who lays horses down in a quick fix attempt. Especially if the horse is well started and experienced as OP suggests.
Taking time to figure out the actual problem and more time to fix it is how good horses are made, and the core of good horsemanship.
This horse was in no way “brutalized” and he was not laid down in a hurry… it honestly offends me that you make such an accusation about a situation, a horse and people you have never met or seen. My original reason for posting this thread was to find out if anyone had experienced such a thing, as I never had nor do I know anyone that had. If you have ever witnessed a horse being laid down gently you would know that they can get a huge relief and will often stay laying down relaxed and get up with a completely different mind set.
We had not considered the horse having ulcers until after our trainer had worked with him, had we, we would have treated him first. Our horses our turned out 24/7, are not taken to shows, are fed hay four of fives time a day and live very stress free lives … ulcers are not something anyone would expect them to have. He had been on stall rest for a period ( two weeks ) though due to a wound we casted and we think that probably triggered it as the stall rest did stress him out.
You have all reminded me why I stopped posting on these types of forums.
A dramatic change like this horse exhibited…always explore a physical reason before thinking he’s just gone bad. Especially after a big change like you describe above.