Farriers/Trimmers, do your clients sign a liability release??

[QUOTE=marta;3652812]
so knowing that, what are you concerned about? i just recently signed one at my barn. doesn’t mean i’m not going to sue them and doesn’t mean that they can cite the release and the court will dismiss my claim. as you said, it’s a contract of adhesion, courts will be reluctant to enforce it if it’s particularly one sided.[/QUOTE]

As I said in the very beginning a professional who presents this type of contract suggests to me that they are not competant in their own abilities and want me to assume the burden of their mistakes. This I won’t do. I would encourage others to follow the same path. I want the responsibility for error to fall upon the person committing the error. Neither more nor less.

A barn or landowner presenting a statutorily mandated release is an entirely different situation.

I don’t like solutions from “Dr. Feelgood” and this is one of them. It doesn’t really protect the pro and it can lead an owner astray (thinking that they have to “eat” the production of one of the Feasance Brother, Mis, Mal, or Non). This offends my sense of justice. :wink:

G.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;3652865]
As I said in the very beginning a professional who presents this type of contract suggests to me that they are not competant in their own abilities and want me to assume the burden of their mistakes. This I won’t do. I would encourage others to follow the same path. I want the responsibility for error to fall upon the person committing the error. Neither more nor less.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. A lawyer who asked a client to sign such a release would be engaging in unethical conduct in violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct. I bet other professionals - maybe vets? - are similarly barred by professional ethics from asking clients to release them from liability for their own mistakes.

you sign these types of contracts/releases on daily basis.

i think you’re making this into something it’s not. people are trying to protect themselves. doesn’t mean they’re not professional (in fact, it speaks contrary to me). and btw, do you even know if your farrier has insurance? have you ever asked? you don’t have to answer me. but i have a feeling that about 99.9% of folks never even thought of what would happen if their horse is injured by the farrier or if the farrier is inured by their horse…

to the OP, presence or absence of a release would not be the criteria by which i would choose who trims my horse’s feet.

Living in the lawsuit capitol of the country, I can understand the feeling of needing this. And really, the first section concerning liability release for injury caused to other people resulting from something happening during the work may not be a bad idea in the long run. However, releasing the farrier from responsibility for a problem that may arise from work she herself will do and may very well cause to your horse is out.

Now, if she was willing to leave the personal liability section in place, strike out the equine injury liability section, initial the struck out section and sign the bottom of the release form with a notation that she indeed agreed to strike out the equine injury liability section and initialed the section in question, then I might be inclined to allow her to work on my horse provided she was worth all of this fuss. Chances are, she will be so offended at what I am insisting on that she will load up and be gone.

Go with the more experienced farrier. Your horses will thank you for it.

I understand this post is 7 years old, however, I still would like to put my two cents in. In this age, people are always looking for a quick buck and for someone to blame. I am not saying anyone specific, I am generalizing. A liability waiver is nothing to run away from. A good liability waiver, written by the hoof care professional (and vetted by a lawyer) not only protects the hoof care professional but it protects you and your horse. Anything can happen and a broad range of seemingly minute details can add up to the straw that broke the camel’s back. An appropriate waiver will not only exempt the hoof care professional from being needlessly being blamed for things beyond their control but, should the unthinkable occur, it will protect the horse/horse owner/property owner from a frivolous lawsuit. Many states have laws protecting the horse/property owners from being sued by hoof care professionals (or their estates) because they knowingly partake in dangerous activities. Many insurance companies will not cover injuries occurring when partaking in dangerous sports or activities unless a rider is attached to the policy. Anything equine related falls within the parameters of the definitions set for by the insurance companies. Since the individual states control everything insurance-related, they control the definitions. Essentially these definitions are used in the development and upholding of state laws. Having said that, I recommend a contract between the hoof care professional and the client that spells out specifically who will be or will not be responsible for what and what actions will be taken in the respective events. This can easily be added to the new client paperwork that can easily be integrated into your first appointment by adding 5-10 minutes. Other forms I recommend are a contract of client/professional rights and responsibilities and a billing/invoicing breakdown. You don’t have to take my recommendations. They are strictly my opinions and thousands of people across the world work just fine without them. However, a hoof care professional is a self-employed individual. Paperwork may seem like a pain, but when it becomes standard operating procedure, you will rest easier knowing exactly what your expectations are. You asked if you had a right to ask if the “trimmer” had insurance. You ABSOLUTELY DO HAVE THAT RIGHT. Not only should they have private health insurance that covers accidents that may occur in their line of work, but they should also be paying into their state’s worker’s comp insurance so that they are covered when injured at work. Their private policy will automatically be bumped to a secondary policy to assist in the coverage of what charges will be denied or only partially covered by the worker’s comp policy. Another insurance ANY self-employed professional in ANY field should have is liability and malpractice {or care, custody, and control insurance} insurance (in addition to insurance specifically covering their trade tools, etc.) to cover claims filed against them from clients. I know this sounds like an insane amount of insurances to be paying for, but as a business owner you are responsible for a LOT. You will rest easier knowing you are covered for almost every eventuality. Speaking of, don’t forget a life insurance policy with an accidental death and dismemberment supplement. If you have made it to this point in my post without being rendered unconscious I thank you. Many people will disagree with me, but you cannot deny that caring for equines is not only extremely hard on your bodies, but there are many outstanding existential factors that could happen at any time for the seemingly most random reasons. Your business will be covered, your medical expenses will be covered, your clients will be covered, your equines will be covered, the property owners will be covered, your families will be covered, and your estate will be able to be handled without adding undue stress on your loved ones while they are grieving and trying to make sense of the loss (even if you are just injured there is a grieving process). Again, do it or don’t, it is completely up to you. Your clients have the right to request proof of liability insurance. Many insurance companies may require your clients to sign a waiver to handle their end of the coverage. If you are uncomfortable, be open and honest with your hoof care professional. Ask questions. Make sure you understand every single statement and reference of the forms you are signing BEFORE you sign them. If you are uncomfortable signing them, speak up. If you want to reschedule your appointment until you have had time to read, complete, and understand what you are signing and what is expected of every party mentioned in the documents you have every right to. Whatever you do, NEVER sign any document of any kind if you feel uncomfortable. Feel free to ask why- to everything. Not only will you have a broader understanding of what you will be legally held responsible for or absolved of, you can use this simple question to gauge the understanding of the person requiring you to sign the forms. Many people will go on Amazon and purchase a book of legal forms, print them straight off the disk, and hand them out like candy. If this is the case, don’t sign the form without good cause.

[QUOTE=4 barrel;3649149]
I am just asking because I am curious as to what others have experience with…

For the 15 years I’ve been involved with horses, I’ve only had one farrier. He semi-retired and so is not available anymore. He recommended a local trimmer.

She came to do a friends horse and before the first trim, she brought out a two page liability release, releasing her from any responsibility in the event that anyone die or become injured while she is on the property. It also released her from responsibility should the horse become injured during or after (either in an accident, or from abcesses, bruising, lameness, etc).

This is most definitely the first time I’ve ever dealt with this sort of release, and since she is the only trimmer in the area, I am wondering what protection do the homeowners need for her to be working on her property???

I’ve used several different veterinarians and none have asked me to sign a release unless the animal was being sedated. Do I have a right to ask this trimmer if she is insured if I am having a horse trimmed?? Thoughts? I’m not well versed or educated in legalities but would like to gain a little knowledge here. :slight_smile:

Thanks.

Edited title.[/QUOTE]

On another note not all hoof care professionals are created equally. Many people consider themselves farriers because they nail shoes on straight from a box or because they learned their “trade” from a weekend course on how to trim a horse, or, God forbid I offend everyone else, they learned the good old “Cowboy Way.” Ask where your hoof care professional was educated. Ask what certifications they hold or are working towards. Check up on them online (there are public lists that show who holds what certification in your area). If they are not fully knowledgeable in their field, they can do a lot of damage to your horse’s body. The wrong size or fit shoes can create all kinds of damage that may not show up immediately and may not be able to be reversed. RUN AWAY FAST from these individuals. Having someone do a half-assed job is NOT better than not having them done at all (to some extent and definitely not for the long term). Call your vet, get on your local Facebook business and equine groups to find a competent and educated professional.