Hey, I’m just curious about what they were actually charged with and sentenced for. That should be public record.
It’s worth the effort. You find their pictures and I’ll post them on our website with a link. Good Idea!
KateB ~ I’m more than happy to help in anyway I can. I know how frustrating it can be when you know you are in the right and no one wants to listen to you or help. So often it is NOT a civil matter but many in law enforcement don’t think it is worth their time. Most of the victims in the investigation here in VA had tried speaking to numerous people but got the same answer you’re getting. It took the actions of one wonderful Detective who realized this was indeed criminal and once he had received over a dozen calls from 6 states he decided to call in the FBI. He knew he could not help most of the victims even thought he desperately wanted to. For example, my pony went from VA to MD to MS and LA. The pony was never in his jurisdiction even though I was lead to believe she was.
The hardest part is getting that ONE person who believes in the case and starts following through. The horse industry is so loosely run that it makes it very appealing to the criminal element of our society. And unfortunately the is NO horse organization or association you can turn to for help which I find to be almost criminal in itself.
Well lmd, since your only postings have been in defense of these two I can only assume you are still in contact and/or have dealings with them.
As for owning a horse I assume no based on the original court sentencing in June 2004. During the court hearing the FBI and US Attorney wanted to know the exact ownership of horses in their care. If any were owned only by them then the court would have ordered an auction of said horses to pay restitution to the victims listed in the court documents. They both testified under oath they did NOT own any horses.
That was proven to be false as the FBI located and seized a horse by the name Grande Impression last year. It was sold by the Dept of Justice and the money was then distributed to the victims. Lying in Federal Court before a Senior Federal Judge is a big no-no and is called perjury.
As for showing, again I think the judge addressed the issue when he said “This includes but is not limited to…” However, if you are asking because you would like one of them to ride a horse for you then rest assured I will call Richmond tomorrow and get an “exact” answer for you. If you do not believe my answers then please feel free to PM me and I will gladly give you the phone numbers to the Dept of Justice. I will also post the answers given to me because I do not want to be accused of speaking on the Dept of Justice’s behalf.
I believe the most important thing Judge Williams wanted recorded in the court documents was the following… “The Court finds that the following additional condition of supervised release is necessary to protect the public, and further finds that a partial prohibition would not provide adequate protecton.” These are his words, not mine.
Just received the following email from Kim Anderson.
Hi Debbie,
I think the way you are doing it is fine as long as you don’t mind doing it.
Thanks Debbie!
Kim
So if anyone still needs her contact info to send a letter please send me a PM. Just make sure she receives it by Thursday afternoon.
I just saw the post asking where the situation I mentioned occured was in NY. If anyone here has had any similar problems with anyone in NY please PM me. We’re looking for more people that would be interested in doing something about it.
The more people that put pressure on to change the attitude that these are “civil matters” and not actual crimes - which they certainly are - the harder its going to be for them not to pay attention and finally treat these things as the crimes they are.
People keep asking police and other officials to do something in these cases and keep getting blown off and are constantly told to sue. After hearing that over and over most people just give up thinking there’s no re-course. The case being discussed right here proves this just isn’t true. So please if you’ve been ripped off in some way in a horse deal in NY get in touch with me.
bwf ~ Thanks for bring up the insurance issue. I don’t think it has been mentioned before and is something that should be seriously considered.
KateB ~ I hope that more people will get in touch with you if they have had problems in NY. It is so important to stick together and yes most of these matters are indeed criminal. Unfortunately most law officials do not recognize them as such and/or know about equine laws.
This case DOES prove there can be justice. Where as local law officials might not want to address these crimes the Dept of Justice considers them to be a serious matter and has no problem bringing charges against those who commit horse related crimes.
t8ksilk ~ your explanation is just what was given to us from the DOJ and I appreciate you keeping your ears and eyes open. 
No there are no news articles on this. I have looked for them to. This case would make an amazing book. There were many involved and hurt by these two people. But be careful…there are many educated horse people that are blinded by the two of them and do not think they did any thing wrong. Even though they were found guilty in a federal court, some think they were not guilty.
I’m hoping worse… but we’ll see on Tuesday!
Well perhaps t8ksilk that’s the problem. Then there were more of us who had a passion for the horses then those who thought it was their human contest instead.
Those with the passion for the horses just didn’t stand up against those who thought of a horse show as a vanity pageant for their benefit. If we had perhaps there would be less of that now.
Maybe I’m a pollyanna who lives in la la land but I don’t think so. I really think the majority of “grassroots” people want a fair shot but it isn’t the winning of a $3.00 piece of rayon that they care about. It’s an honest competition. I don’t think that’s changed at all.
What is depressing is all those who cannot attend five day show after five day show don’t have a chance at all. If you had the best horse and rider in the world you couldn’t win anything. It’s become a self sustaining private club at that level.
So, can we redesign for the rest of us who don’t want to spend more than the price of our house on a horse or pony, who believe children should go to school and adults should have work to do. I’d like to believe we can do that.
All the evils come from the vanity where winning is what it’s all for at any price. But the “special” people wouldn’t be special if they didn’t have us to beat. Just suppose we didn’t play in their sandbox.
I know someone that had a problem with those two. They have spent 6 years trying to do what was right! I am so sorry for those people that were involved in this case. It was very sad!!!
I hope that it will not be able to ever happen again to anyone!
Originally posted by JackieBlue:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by eef:
There are a lot of accusations being thrown out here, many of which are false. These accusations are one or more person’s opinions, and their personal views of things that they believe happened in the past, and are not based on true facts. It is a continuing case of “He said She said”.
These men have served their time and have lives to rebuild, and they deserve the opportunity to do that without being demeaned further.
Alright then, my father-in-law, a way too trusting sweetheart of a man, sent a horse up to Josh Cardine on trial maybe 4-5 years back and we had to send 2 guys in the middle of the night to get the horse back and he was in awful shape and now he’s dead. I’d be happy to give more details to anyone who pm’s me.
That’s first hand and no hearsay at all involved. Why you might want to defend someone who would do to any animal what that “man” did to our horse is beyond me and makes me really wonder what you’re up to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
JackieBlue ~ I’m so sorry to hear about your horse and I know it was a horrible experience for you.
Horseplay…your Terrible experience as a child and a victim horrifies me!I know your heart was broken (my kids’ would have been). I give you and your “circle” kudos for your fight spirit and determination to face such incredible injustice! 
So what was the gist of it? Did they take in sale horses and pocket all the money from the sales? Or most of the money?
Originally posted by t8ksilk:
I know someone who was “personally associated” with Keg; have heard all the stories, one about making a child ride in a show with a broken arm while the parents stood lamely by, etc., ad nauseum. Everyone observed all this nonsense going on, wondering why he had any clients let alone kept the ones he had. I attribute it to that bottom-line “need to win” mentality. Can’t explain it otherwise. KB had a horrible reputation around here but kept selling the expensive horses (his or otherwise), kept taking kids to shows, kept up his antics with local organizations without apparent censure.
Exactly…no censure…why? Local organizations may be the answer…if it can be done. A grassroots movement could provide the USEF with a platform to vote on a NEW RULE CHANGE. I agree that a felony involving any dealing with a horse should be cause for an immediate suspension and a review by the show organizations.
I’m sure there are some old 'clients" of Josh and Keg that assumed that the show organizations policed there own. It is a false sense of reassurance that professional trainers are in “good standing” (implying that they are not convicted felons) with a show organization when apparently…nothing in the small print of the rule book addresses the problem. Is this industry wide? IS there a model of a code of ethics for an show organization working anywhere…I’d like to know.
Looking the other way is no way to deal with the dark side of this sport and only emboldens those who will play the game no matter the cost.
Joan Watt
Tellwynd - The Source for Reliable Champions
Originally posted by Snowbird:
What about Ken Berlin he’s still in jail and a Member of USEF in good standing. Do you know what he looks like?
I wish we did have pictures to post.
Not a clue what Keg looks like… but I bet both of them are pretty darn sexy in their orange jumpsuits!!! NOT!
Originally posted by t8ksilk:
To Kfildes:
Unless you are going to spend valuable time following Keg and Josh around, warning others about them, risking your own reputations, then you have to let it go.
They’ve got their just desserts, people know about it, kudos to those of you who have hung in there making public the wrongful things they’ve done. Leave them to the lives of their own creation.
Now, if you’re going to do something, concentrate your efforts on getting organizations to stop dealing with the likes of them and making it harder for them to survive in this environment.
I, for one, would not have known about this whole Josh/Keg thing had it not been on this board. I think what these people are doing is definitely helping get the word out and feel they should continue to update us on things. If someone is sick of hearing about it, they don’t have to read the post, right?
I think this post has had a lot of positive things happen for the victims. The warnings on this thread have brought out new victims.
As far as keeping up with where they are… this will also be helpful for the Feds during the probation time. After reading the documents RNB sent me I don’t believe that Josh/Keg will keep the Feds up to date on any of their shady actions… others will have to make them accountable.
I have photos as well but would have to dig them up.
