Feeding the dressage horse

[JB]

@lazaret

what supplements are currently recommended for a horse who needs add’l zinc, copper, and vitamin E? I

I personally use polysaccharide copper and p-zinc from Horsetech, very cost-efficient. I mix the 2 at the ratio I need (I think it’s 3:2 zn:cu which gives me a 3:1 ratio) and then feed a small scoop of the mix.

I use UltraCruz Natural E powder, also very cost-efficient. Pellets are a cheap option too. Please note that their recommended serving size is 80000IU and their scoop holds 4000IU, so find a scoop that holds what you need

If you find your horse is E-deficient, then I’d highly recommend a bottle of Emcelle liquid E from Custom Equine Nutrition to get the level raised quickly. After that you can probably keep things stable with the above. Emcelle is the cheapest, by far, of the 3 water-soluble/nano-dispersed products. If your vet isn’t familiar with those forms, and says your deficient horse needs 6000IU, then you don’t need that much of Emcelle, maybe more like 4000IU, it’s just that much more effective. Cross that bridge if you get there, i’m happy to share a great flow chart that Dr Carrie Finno presented to the AAEP a couple years ago showing how to supplement based on blood levels.

There are also several human gel caps that are in the same price range, Puritan’s Pride might be one. Some horses eat the caps, some won’t. microIngredients used to be a great cheap option, but they went to synthetic E not long ago, so aren’t “in favor” any more lol

Uckele has cu/zn, but they add in some kelp which makes it very off-putting for a lot of horses, though mine didn’t care when I used it. HT was cheaper so I switched.

California Trace also carries the powdered forms
Custom Equine Nutrition carries a powdered mix
MadBarn has a 3:1 Zinc Copper product which is that ratio, also powder.
Yucc’ It Up has Hay Harmony which is a powder/meal cu/zn mix but also has biotin

[Cowgirl]

Merck Veterinary Manual on nutrition–YMMV on different breeds

Nutritional Requirements of Horses and Other Equids - Management and Nutrition - Merck Veterinary Manual (merckvetmanual.com)

[JB]

@Cowgirl

Merck Veterinary Manual on nutrition–YMMV on different breeds

All that varies in general is the calorie needs. A WB is a Percheron is a TB is an Arabian when it comes to how much of each nutrient they need, and based on age (growing vs adult), weight, and workload.

Beyond that, you look at the actual individual to see if he needs a bit more of something, because of either metabolic issues, or he just doesn’t absorb a nutrient as well as the general population.

[Arlomine]

My base diet:

*Hay unlimited if possible. My Lusitano is a fatty, so he has a slow feeder for hay.
*Triple Crown gold balancer to the body weight of the horse
*3000 IU, vitamin e, natural
*Amino acid supplement from my best horse
*A dollop of flax oil
*Usually, I have to put in about a cup of alfalfa pellets just to have enough stuff to mix everything together
*Copper and zinc from ukulele. But now that they’ve been absorbed Bye Smartpak I’ll probably switch companies.
*2 tablespoons loose salt

[AnnaKarena92]

I would also look to boredom over diet at 1st level.

Your rides sound very laid back and full of repetition especially if you are just going around the arena or in circles. He could very well be lacking mental stimulation which is why he has energy at shows. Really change things up, get him outside. Give him more challenging questions to answer. Play games (look up games they have kids play with flags, buckets, spoons, etc) and get him engaged. You can practice transitions anywhere, doing anything.

[blue_heron]

Is this diet still working for your mare? I also have a young horse (coming 5) that can be sticky under saddle and I was thinking of moving her to a similar diet. Much better after she was treated for ulcers over the winter, ulcers are healed and she is on GI support and doing well, but her forwardness is somewhat inconsistent still. It really feels like a strength issue, she either gives 100% or feels like we’re crawling around (looks okay, so it’s mostly a feeling like she’s holding herself back and posturing in the bridle). Sounds similar to yours as in she is a powerhouse and super talented once she gets going. This is true on the longe and under saddle. She also has slightly loose manure at times with some liquid. I never figured out the exact source of the ulcers even working with my vet. She is a super sensitive mare but very confident. Forwardness improved with saddle fit, changing bit, and shoeing. My farrier notes that she goes through hind shoes like crazy but I don’t see her dragging her toes in turnout or during work.

She’s an easy keeper. Honestly she could lose a little weight. Currently she’s on a rational balancer, Outlast, Relyne, and SmartGut pellets which I won’t be reordering as I don’t think they’re doing anything. Other than that, almost free choice grass hay and a flake of alfalfa with meals.

I’m contemplating trying a PSSM 2 diet and seeing if it adds any gas in her tank. The ALCAR isn’t too expensive so I’m going to add that. The ration balancer is 32% protein and does include the amino acids in Tri-Amino. I’m not sure if it would be helpful to add the Tri-Amino on top of it or if I should add something like Renew Gold with the fat and the lysine. I do also want to find a soy-free ration balancer to try as I know some horses are sensitive to soy and it can cause fecal water.

[outerbanks77]

She is on close to the same thing, though we’ve moved barns and I’m tweaking a couple things at the moment.

She’s now 8 and is easier to get forward, less bobbling around looking almost lame at the beginning of a session. I think some things that are key are the 10,000 mg of Magnesium, 8,000 i.u. natural vitamin E, and the ALCAR. She also gets Vitamin C, which is supposed to be helpful as an antioxidant. I get both the ALCAR and C from Amazon, I think it’s the Nutricost brand. She is also getting GutX and Outlast twice a day. I switched from Renew Gold to the Buckeye ricebran pellets due to cost, but I’m experimenting with taking her off of that as she is getting a little fat. Last fall we ended up injecting her hocks, and I’ve had her on a joint supplement since then as well, noting that the GutX also has hyaluronic acid.

Bits - she is much happier now in a rubber bit. She chewed up her Bomber’s bit, so just switched to a Winderen, and she is doing really well in a plaited rope bit for jumping. I’d spent $$$$ on various fancy metal bits (titanium Salox and sweet iron) and never found anything she really accepted.

You’ll probably want to look at how much she is actually getting of each amino from the RB, and then decide if you need to add Tri-Amino. I’ve looked at other amino supplements and TA seems to have the best composition of the different AAs. I did have a mare in the past who had fecal water and it resolved when I took her off a soy-based RB.

[blue_heron]

Thanks so much! Do you have any resources on determining how much of the amino acids are needed? I’m going to start looking at ration balancer without soy and doing some math. I’ll look at her vitamin E and magnesium, too.

For bits I switch her back and forth between the NS turtle top and a Myler low port. She definitely prefers one of the two above anything else but I can’t decide which is better.

[PaddockWood]

@blue_heron

’m contemplating trying a PSSM 2 diet and seeing if it adds any gas in her tank. The ALCAR isn’t too expensive so I’m going to add that.

Yep, that’s where I’m going. God I wish I didn’t know about PSSM2 and what a lousy diagnosis. My mustang DNA’d at 36% European Heavy Horse and he is a little tank with lots of bone. From the very beginning he’s been “reluctant to move”. That’s the description you read to so often and sure describes him. After owning an Arab that was more like a kite on a string if you know what I mean.

I’ve done a couple pro nutritional consults on this guy and the last one was with Claire Thunes. I’ve got him on 1 lb/day of ProElite Grass Advantage along w a 1/2 portion of KIS Trace, Santa Cruz BCAAs, Vitamin E, ALCAR, 1 TBLS salt am and pm, and a leaky gut supplement because of other issues and wow has it made a difference too. Also 20 lbs of orchard grass hay and other grass blends fed through hay nets. I also grind flax seeds and he’s getting 1 cup/day.

Yes, I test my hay and it had a good amount of protein in it and low sugar. He’s muzzled in a teeny tiny Thinline and I do plan a track and get him off the grass totally - or mostly.

My thought is go to a PSSM2 diet and see if you see a positive change, be sure to have him exercised well 4-5 days a week and see if you feel improvement. If not, increase the fat to cover PSSM1?

I will add my guy is much more forward out on my property versus in the arena. He enjoys being out and about.

Oh and WOW is your guy beautiful.

[PaddockWood]

German Breed Societies Support Gene Research into PSSM2

[PaddockWood]

And I’ll add I think there’s a WHOLE lot of PSSM going on the draft crosses and that’s warmbloods right? People call them dumbloods, lazy etc but it’s PSSM. It’s like me - I’m heavily muscled and my muscles are often tight and I feel lactic acid if I do much. I sympathize with them totally.

[PaddockWood]

More thoughts for your adorable pony. Pull blood. Test your levels. E, selenium, iron, your water, etc. What else am I forgetting (I should be working ) Then you know if you’ve got a problem or not. I didn’t see the age but is insulin and ACTH another consideration?

[atlatl]

@blue_heron

Thanks so much! Do you have any resources on determining how much of the amino acids are needed? I’m going to start looking at ration balancer without soy and doing some math. I’ll look at her vitamin E and magnesium, too.

For bits I switch her back and forth between the NS turtle top and a Myler low port. She definitely prefers one of the two above anything else but I can’t decide which is better.

I use this book as a guide for feeding my horses, with good success

The Horse Nutrition Handbook

[2tempe]

I know a horse (not mine) who is a 7-8ish yr old WB, a tad on the porky side, who has been having exercise intolerance issues - not wanting to go forward, tired sooner during work than he should be, tired at shows when she was doing 2 tests/day. Now he’s 3rd level so only doing one test each day but tired second day. She had a vet lookover and it turns out he has atrial fib. Will be going to clinic in a week or two to attempt conversion.
Lethargy and exercise intolerance are typical in A-fib, so OP if it hasn’t happened already in the vet process, have someone put a stethoscope on him.

[joiedevie99]

@2tempe

She had a vet lookover and it turns out he has atrial fib. Will be going to clinic in a week or two to attempt conversion.
Lethargy and exercise intolerance are typical in A-fib, so OP if it hasn’t happened already in the vet process, have someone put a stethoscope on him.

So interesting. I’ll add that oxygen deprivation does the same thing. Obviously the most common breathing issue in horses makes an obvious sound, which is why we call it roaring, but I had an interesting chat with a surgeon who treats roarers frequently and he indicated that he’s encountered a few horses in his career who had much less noise than you’d expect relative to the severity of their issue based upon their specific throat anatomy.

[eightpondfarm]

it was 93 and high humidity yesterday. I grabbed two of my horses from the pasture around 9am, and fed them a couple flakes of alfalfa to keep them busy while incarcerated (in a 72x36 run) then loaded and hauled 2hrs. They were dark at their flanks and chests when i unloaded. Inside arena, no fans. Both horses (one grade stock horse, one standardbred) were eager to move out at ANY opportunity, even when i applied a bit more leg only to get a better leg-yield off the quarter line, i got faster first. Regardless of weather, i’ve not seen one of my horses be ‘sticky’ at any upward transition, nor hold back during any gait. I really do think it’s because they have unlimited pasture and therefore good body conditioning, and their only foodsource is grazing.

I believe that how we keep horses, how they get their food and their exercise, is the heart of the problem.

[DressageTB]

Thank you all for commenting. I am currently awaiting test results for any and all myopathies.