Feeling done

[GraceLikeRain]

@endlessclimb

I think people don’t see the thousand ways horses test and check who is actually in charge, and what is or isn’t allowed. I saw it every single day when I boarded. The little tiny things that people ignore, that build into bigger things. Problems “come out of no where” when in reality they have been building for weeks/months without being checked.

So true. Also, some horses need 1-2 little corrections a week and some need 20 every time they are touched to genuinely respect boundaries.

My first mare was a giant hulk of a mare with an big alpha personality and I was probably 85 lbs soaking wet when I got her as a naive pre-teen. I had no idea what a boundary was and don’t think I even knew to establish a boundary while she was alive. She never once did anything unkind much less disrespectful in our decade together.

My current mare requires probably 10-15 corrections every single time she leaves the paddock. It’s that tiny reminder to wait, let me choose how your foot gets placed down, where your head goes when I saddle, I said ground tie and that includes the one foot you just moved a few inches, etc. Without really precise boundaries she’s “fine” until she tries to tell someone to stuff it and spins in the field or tries to throw a foot during blanketing. I don’t love it but it is who she is and she would be an absolute menace and likely dangerous with the average experience horse person who doesn’t want to be on 24/7. I know that’s not Black Beauty mindset because she’s gotten the best of many experienced barn workers and trainers over the years lulled into security because she’s golden (ground tie, leads like a lamb, self loads, lovely for appointments) until she’s not if you don’t have a 0 tolerance policy for the daily questioning of who is in charge.

[jherold]

It really depends on what your conscience will allow. Will you worry about him if you sell him at slightly above meat price with full disclosure? If yes, you need to euthanize. If he’s not sound, I would euthanize. He’s at your house and you’re the one handling him for extensive diagnostics and they know once you are afraid of them. I won’t have an animal on the property that I’m afraid of.

[gradytb]

Yikes. That would be a hard hell no from me.

[cutter99]

@luvmyhackney, there is not a horse out there that does not need reminders, some more regularly than others.

And for the record, I have an intimate understanding of low cost horses. The 18 year old I just retired was bought for $2100 as a two year old. The 5 year old I am currently riding was picked up out of a cattle herd for $1K. The 2 year old I am letting mature is a $2100 registered AQHA horse. In today’s horse market, those are cheap horses.

I have seen more than a few things in the horse industry. Just because a horse is cheap does not always mean it is a problem, but it takes experience and a discerning eye to see that.

My $1K 5 year old went to the trainer to be started as I was recovering from a TBI and brain bleed, caused by the made horse I had purchased, through a well respected trainer, losing his shit and attempting to kill me. I could have purchased a $100K horse for the cost of the Life Flight and trauma center for a horse that was sold to me as broke, broke, broke cost me!

The $1K 5 year old was under saddle within a couple hours of arriving at the trainer’s and could have a rope thrown off him to catch a calf within 2 weeks because he is that quiet.

Does it mean he couldn’t have a bad day and explode? He certainly can, as any horse can. If he did, we would work through it because that is not the norm for him.

Other horses don’t get that break because they are just not worth messing with. No one should get hurt or potentially killed because someone doesn’t euthanize a horse that has no boundaries.

Owners should not feel guilty or pressured when they make the decision to do the hardest thing. It is easy to move a horse on with issues.

[endlessclimb]

This is my current young one. I’m hoping she learns that the double yellow lines are permanent and she ought to quit testing (she’s improved leaps and bounds, it’s still “there” but she’s 3yo). Stuff the NH people would say is a horse “communicating” is a no-fly zone with me. No, you may not threaten to bite me because you’re mad I won’t let you graze. No, you may not violently zoom off when the halter gets taken off. etc.

[endlessclimb]

What the saying - something like “there’s too many good horses to deal with a bad one.”

And - OP this is supposed to be fun. If it’s not fun, fix it.

[SummerRose]

First, I support an owner’s right to do whatever humane thing they want to with their horse.

But if the lameness hasn’t been diagnosed and a single buck and a single kick are all a vet has to go on, it might be a challenge to find a vet who is willing to euth.

I’m sure there’s more to the story but this horse doesn’t sound like he’d be out of the risk tolerance range of most trainers if he was sound. Good horses absolutely buck sometimes. And some horses who will kick or bite when they don’t click with one handler can be perfectly pleasant when owned by someone for whom strict discipline is second nature.

Again, I do support the OP if they decide to euthanize. But if the horse has a good training foundation as and he’s been well-behaved in the past, I’d at least put out feelers with the prior owners. And maybe with prior trainers if he’s going sound now that he’s had a month off.

(And if he hasn’t been clipped, I’d pull off the blanket and throw him out in the field while a decision is being reached, if at all possible. I’m sure consistent good handling would be better for him but no contact and feeding with a bucket slid under the fence might be safer for the owner if a decision will be made quickly.)

[NancyM]

This horse is not a happy horse. He’s got a problem. I don’t know what his problem is. But his problem has to be solved for him if he’s ever going to be successfully and safely ridden. How does he go without the tack on him? The same? Or without the negative activity?

[Kaluna]

Yea, but alot can. I’m always skeptical of “one of the best” labels.

[Kaluna]

That’s great. A good one can teach you another way to communicate with your horse. I do dressage but NH peeps have really helped refine my training. Some don’t at all, but it’s all about yielding to pressure, which is common ground for NH and dressage.

Ground work can be magical-bonding and understanding. I hope it works out for you.

[Aussie_2020]

I’m glad you posted this because I was reading a few earlier ones that said it was a young horse and full of high jinx and I thought “uh-uh, not in my world”. If a horse I had been riding and working with deliberately kicked me he would have been in serious trouble. I get kicking at a fly or some other innocuous mistake, but a planned strike or kick? No, that is not acceptable.

OP if this horse has a history of dirty behavior it isn’t wrong to send him to the pasture in the sky. I don’t want a horse I can’t trust, I want a horse that will save my hide in a rough patch.

[cutter99]

@Kaluna

Yea, but alot can. I’m always skeptical of “one of the best” labels.

You can be as skeptical as you like, but I know what I know. Those who know me on here and in real life know what kind of horseman I am and who I allow to work with my horses.

“One of the best” does not mean a trainer who has an excellent marketing plan and social media presence. It means someone with a lifetime of experience and untold hours on the ground with horses, as well as in the saddle.

Let me put it to you this way. This trainer supplies horses to those other guys.

[Annie10]

It’s easy to say this from my chair on an Internet board and not having a relationship with this horse and not being you, but I think I would use an ice. The reason for that is because horses with a history like this and also with lameness issues Begin to get passed on and go down a slippery slope that never ends well for the horse. That’s just my perspective and if you don’t like it and don’t agree with it and don’t do it that’s OK too I understand totally. I wouldn’t blame you one bit if you euthanize him. But I also wouldn’t blame you one bit if you just let him be a pasture ornament for the rest of his life. But you do have to be able to handle the horse at least for a routine stuff without it getting in your head.

[fivestrideline]

I would try to find a “lease” situation with someone you trust - maybe a pro with a scrappy kid in the barn that’s on a budget - and see if he thrives in a regimented program. You could offer a split on expenses lease to purchase (you pay some of his expenses) or a percentage of sale. If he doesn’t come around, you still own him and can make the call.

I would not put him somewhere that uses low-skill staff (like a place that lets boarders work off expenses or hires teens), but I’d look for somewhere he’d have consistent daily handling by fair people. Horses in a program like that get handled WAY more than your average horse at home. He may be a horse that just needs that kind of structure, and so few of us provide that at home. Some do, but a lot of us don’t (this is why I specifically buy “easy”, cooperative, if less athletic horses. I know my system).

I don’t call a buck and a kick “dangerous”, but I wasn’t there. It really depends on OP - some horses will take advantage and the injury is likely incidental, and some horses have a screw loose.

Euth is not a bad end. But I’m not sure I’d be comfortable doing it if he was mine.

[Rosie8888]

I’m really sorry to read your story. Have you considered calling in a natural horsemanship trainer for a little bit? You never know it could be worth a try

[findeight]

OP has said she has already planned a session with an NH trainer in the next few weeks to “ work on ground manners”.

[Callista17]

I know this isn’t a direct answer, but I bought a (cheap) OTTB warhorse mare from a friend. Now, friend was about 4 feet tall, 100lbs and was over horsed. She told me the mare was not to be trusted, but she also said she rarely took her out of her stall because she was over matched.

I thought with work, horse could be awesome. She was WONDERFUL to ride, maybe a few small bucks or feet out of place, NOTHING dramatic. On the ground, she was grumpy. Not cuddly. We tried Regumate- she was WORSE for the barn. Ultrasounded and didn’t find any reproductive issues. I moved her closer to home to another barn. Had another vet opinion- prozac. Vet really liked the horse, thought Prozac would cure her. I didn’t notice a difference. I didn’t bond with her either. She behaved for me, but I also felt I always had to be aware and on guard. I sold her- all info disclosed. I was just done sinking money into her.
She did AWESOME! She ended up with a trainer, I forgot what, but they did a lot of supplements, maybe ulcer meds? But she was a superstar and a young adult bought her. Rode her daily, lessons, showing…
She didn’t hurt me, but sometimes a fresh eyes/perspective, determination to solve problems helps too. I’ve only sold 2 horses. I’d take her back in a minute if she needed a home, but probably would retire her.

[Live_Wire]

The comments associated with this video are honestly terrifying.

[VodkaRedbullx2]

I wouldn’t euthanize. I did that once and still regret it. It doesn’t sound bad enough to euthanized either.

Maybe treat for lyme?

Tb geldings have a high propensity to kick. I wouldn’t assume it was pain related they just do. I can’t count on 2 hands the number of tb geldings I’ve seen dirty kick. And sometimes horses just kick. I got kicked 2 weeks ago in a dumb kind of way by a horse I didn’t think would kick. Geldings dont warn you about it either like mares do.

If this isn’t the horse for you find a professional to take him on. Sell him for $1 and let them make the money.

[SonnysMom]

I was hand grazing my horse last summer. He kicked at a fly and connected with my thigh. I shanked him up pretty hard. He would not have accidentally kicked the dominant horse in the field. He went to kick at another one and guess what? He made sure he didn’t kick me.