Feeling uncomfortable with 1/2 lease

[blondewithchrome]

Yes - agree here. When I’ve part leased my personal show horses out to riders that are more novice, I have always communicated (both in paperwork and verbally) that horse will get schooling rides (from me or pro) to maintain his schooling. I have learned the hard way to lose months of great top line and muscle letting those good tune up rides slip on a crossrail riders lease and won’t do it again. You get back a horse that you have to spend weeks, if not months, legging back up. OP has not clarified his/her level of riding and proficiency so, this could be the case (or not) - but regardless I do think it’s the owners right to maintain rides on the horse to ensure the quality stays there.

HOWEVER: I agree this is a case of poor communication. If the expectations aren’t meeting reality, OP should voice concerns with trainer and get it in writing (perhaps confirming via email or text in FU to a conversation) so everyone feels more comfortable! Communication is key.

[AmateurInTheArena]

So neither I nor the other lease rider are novice riders - we’re both on at least the advanced end of intermediate. I would certainly understand doing training rides if we were novice riders, but regardless, the lease does not say anything about the owner/trainer continuing to ride the horse. You’re right though that I definitely need to have the conversation, and I’ve gotten some good ideas on how to approach it from this thread!

[Scribbler]

The advanced end of intermediate in a structured lesson and lease program is often not a person who has gone very far in diagnosing, remedying and reschooling for biomechanical issues. Indeed, I would not want a half leaser in general trying to work on these things unless the coach, myself and the leaser were all united in a program that broke the remedial work into very manageable steps.

[teatime0714]

Agreed here. The advanced end of intermediate is not necessarily enough experience to maintain a horse’s training level. Heck when I was selling my last horse (2nd level dressage and can handle a 2’9 course but not competitively) it took me 2 rides to tune him back up following a pretty decent training/first level rider (who I would consider the advanced end of intermediate from what I saw) having a few back to back rides on him as an on-site “trial” period. I told her she would probably need a training ride or 2 a week to maintain his current fitness level while she worked her way up to match him. She bought him and tried to maintain his training level herself. 3 months later he had declined and was put into the trainers program with once weekly rides to get back and maintain the 2nd level work.

However it definitely should have been a discussion point at minimum and ideally in writing for the lease to avoid confusion if that is indeed what is going on here.

[paw]

If you’re half-leasing your horse to two riders, neither of whom you think are sufficient to keep the horse where you want him to be, perhaps you should be only half-leasing to one rider, so that you can keep him tuned up.

[Midge]

There’s a difference between giving the horse a scheduled training ride now and then and the horse having multiple days of more than one ride.

[Spudsmyguy]

This poor horse is getting ridden into the ground. Just my 2 cents

[findeight]

Sounds like it but we really never did get the whole story and all the details. Still a cautionary tale for those newer to the industry.

[OverandOnward]

FWIW … if this horse is actually being worked into the ground for the owner’s cash gain, and this continues indefinitely, the horse will start breaking down within a few months. If this continues at the pace that is being suggested by the OP, next year this will not be the same horse. There may not be one major issue, but a string of more ordinary issues in the realm of “it’s always something”. A textbook NQR horse. At that point, it may or may not be possible to bring the horse back to full abilities with rest and proper care.

[CBoylen]

Half leases many places just mean the rider is guaranteed that particular horse for their ride/lesson on their scheduled days, instead of rotating schoolhorses. It doesn’t imply control over the rest of the horse’s schedule, that day or otherwise. Probably best to clarify the expectations of this barn’s culture.

[Midge]

That doesn’t seem to be of much value. A full lease means that horse is basically yours. A half lease seems like it should mean the horse is yours half the days.

[Bogie]

@BeeHoney

But, I’ve also seen situations where a nice horse is half-leased to two separate intermediate/beginner riders as half leases, but the owner remains involved and does occasional tune up rides (at the convenience of the people leasing the horse) that directly improves the experience of the part-leasers.

When I have part leased my horses in the past, I always told them I was going to be doing tune up rides because I found that my horse needed them. BUT, it should be disclosed up front.

As for the horse being ridden twice in a day, it really depends on how much work, how close together the rides are, and what kind of work. If I get on my horse for a 20-minute tune up ride, I think they’d be perfectly capable of being ridden by someone leasing her. That’s not the same as doing an intensive jump lesson. Again, it’s the communication part that’s lacking.

That said, I loaned my girl to a friend this morning for a trail ride and this afternoon she told me she’s filing a complaint with management about having to go out twice in one day.

As for the shows, it’s a good time for you to bring this up with the owner. You don’t have to be confrontational but mention that you’re unsure how it will work if weekend days are part of your half lease and the other girl wants to show. What you don’t want to have happen is a tug of war over who gets to ride and find out you’re both showing.

[OverandOnward]

Don’t recall if this was mentioned upthread – OP, has the horse owner leased out her horse in the past? How much experience does she have with leasing?

If the owner is still somewhat new to leasing, or maybe hasn’t previously done two half-leases or whatever else is going on, she might be on a learning curve, too. She may not have anticipated some things that are coming up now.

There is a possibility that everyone needs a reset & review on how this is working. But at that point perhaps some changes could be made, and hopefully things become much better for everyone.

[CBoylen]

Well, it depends . At Barns of that type having the ability to ride the same horse every time is valuable to some people, and it’s an expense of like $300-$400 a month. Half of the horse’s expenses at a modest board rate.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@CBoylen

At Barns of that type having the ability to ride the same horse every time is valuable to some people, and it’s an expense of like $300-$400 a month. Half of the horse’s expenses at a modest board rate

A local barn around here considers this a “lease”, as well. Not conventional as what some think of one but is their structure. They pay over 300 for a free ride and a guaranteed lesson ride, price goes up for additional rides. They also will lease out to someone else, with whoever signed first with first refusal for showing, if they want. The horses can be used in lessons. They aren’t worked into the ground, I think I see behavior differences based on the riders. The amount they are doing is certainly not grueling, plus they have limited turn out. As an owner, I’d certainly want to be able to get on the horse to see how it is going, nothing nefarious about it. It sounds like the OP needs to look into the lease terms and barn culture. Not what I want for my horse, but it’s not my rodeo.

[trubandloki]

@Midge

That doesn’t seem to be of much value. A full lease means that horse is basically yours. A half lease seems like it should mean the horse is yours half the days.

Both mean whatever the contract in front of you says they mean.
There is no set in stone rules about what any of those terms mean.

[Midge]

Correct. Which is why I said seems and should. There are multiple way to monetize horses.

[Spudsmyguy]

I loaned my mare to a friend to have her top students put rides on her. One of her other students wanted to half lease her but when friend mentioned paying for it, the mother got all huffy and pulled her student out of the program. She thought she could 1/2 lease my horse but do it for free.

[findeight]

Barn I was in had a “ school lease” program where they were guaranteed that horse for one or two lessons and one or two hacks a week but no exclusivity on those days (no pearl clutching, nothing got overworked).

It is all about what is in that contract and definitions vary by barn. Know before you sign anything.

[Farosh]

Yeah I do a lot of half leases but your situation sounds sketchy.

I have double half leased horses in the past, but generally avoid it. I only do it if riders schedules do not conflict and riders are different skill levels (ex. One rider jumps 2’6” and other is w/t learn to canter) that way if their days overlap it’s fine because beginner person rides in the morning and doing a w/t learn to canter lesson is not tiring for the horse and 2’6” person rides in the afternoon and actually keeps the horse a little quieter for the other person so it’s actually beneficial in some ways. But that’s it, horse does no other lessons. Only one person gets to show with the horse because only one person is at the skill level to compete. If either person wants to do a lot more than what they’re doing, time to switch horses.

But yeah that’s like a perfect situation, generally I don’t like doing that. Half leased horses do other lessons, but only light ones of very beginner people where they do a lot of walking.