FEI: Courtney's horse tests positive for banned substance

[freestyle2music]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;3477703]
It’s complicated. But some of these amounts are so miniscule they couldn’t do anything either way - relieve the horse, or enhance his performance. Residues can last longer than stated. The welfare of the horse, of course, means he cannot be worked if he is sore or on drugs, but zero tolerance with these sophisticated tests is so
disheartening for any competitor. It must be the worst news a competitor can have.[/QUOTE]

However all riders were given the opportunity to do a free arrival check on drugs.

[grayarabs]

What a mess. The substance Felbinac - I have never heard of it - is it in a product that is regularly used - or what? I hope CKD is allowed to say something - like she used a product a month ago or so - that contained F - or something!!! I feel so badly for her and the owners of the horse. How much of the substance was found? A trace?
If the HK lab is that “wonderful” then they should use it to age-test their own gymnasts.

[cyberbay]

Loved your suggestion, grayarabs, about age-testing. Isn’t that truth!

The rules need to be re-directed so that trace amounts are recognized as that. If a trace amount in a short-acting drug doesn’t affect the horse, then it should be allowed; if a trace amount for drugs known to have long-term effect, then it’s not allowed. Zero tolerance has the wrong result of making criminals out of competitors who are doing the right thing – moderate use of moderate drugs isn’t awful and I sure would rather give my hard-competing horse a bute for his overnight rest and comfort than not. The FEI, or the groups that pressure the FEI, have gone too far.

And, with testing being overzealous, it will be nearly impossible to keep top-level horses comfortable. I mean, are human athletes allowed to take aspririn while competing?

[MHM]

Here’s my question:

How is it fair that this person got to compete all the way through the Games with no announcement, when the show jumpers got bounced before their final?

What if the show jumper B samples come back negative?

[YankeeLawyer]

[QUOTE=marta;3477700]
to pick up residues left over on leg wraps, shipping boots, etc?
so if she used wraps that have in the past been used over a banned topical substance, or shipping boots (although not sure when they would have the shipping boots while in hong kong). anyway, you catch my drift, right?[/QUOTE]

Yes, theoretically. In addition, horse A can pick up residue of meds given to Horse B by being placed in horse B’s stall (at least the FEI materials warn about that possibility). And don’t forget, many meds can be given provided that the competitors stop using the product far enough in advance of the competition. The FEI provides general guidelines as to withdrawal periods, but these vary from horse to horse. So, a cream used 30 days before a competition might show up in certain horses as a positive result.

[JER]

I think felbinac is in Surpass topical cream. (Felbinac would be in the diclofenac family of NSAIDS, but someone here probably knows more about this than me.)

[freestyle2music]

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3477868]
Yes, theoretically. In addition, horse A can pick up residue of meds given to Horse B by being placed in horse B’s stall (at least the FEI materials warn about that possibility). And don’t forget, many meds can be given provided that the competitors stop using the product far enough in advance of the competition. The FEI provides general guidelines as to withdrawal periods, but these vary from horse to horse. So, a cream used 30 days before a competition might show up in certain horses as a positive result.[/QUOTE]

But the most important question YL to me, Did Mythilus take part in the Drug test on arrival ?

[YankeeLawyer]

[QUOTE=MHM;3477866]
Here’s my question:

How is it fair that this person got to compete all the way through the Games with no announcement, when the show jumpers got bounced before their final?

What if the show jumper B samples come back negative?[/QUOTE]

It’s not fair. It is as arbitrary as the rest of the FEI rules. CKD was just “lucky” the dressage competition was already finished when the A sample results became available.

What is amazing, though, is that the FEi issued a statement that none of the eventers or dressage horses tested positive, which apparently was not only untrue, but made the SJ competitors look bad, as if there is some cheating problem unique to showjumpers. Now the FEI says that it did not want to issue a public statement as to CKD until the B sample came back, but they didn’t just keep quiet about that, they affirmatively stated no dressage horses or eventers tested positive.

[YankeeLawyer]

[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3477894]
But the most important question YL to me, Did Mythilus take part in the Drug test on arrival ?[/QUOTE]

I don’t know if he did. If not, I would be curious as to why not. She is my favorite rider; I really hate to see this happen.

[Iride]

My first reaction to this is that this is getting ridiculous. But anyway, if it was Surpass that was used, even the teeniest-tiniest amount would test, because it is a transdermal. :eek:

[freestyle2music]

[QUOTE=YankeeLawyer;3477901]
I don’t know if he did. If not, I would be curious as to why not. She is my favorite rider; I really hate to see this happen.[/QUOTE]

It’s no secret that I screamed it from the rooftops that the USA would be stupid not to take CK and Mythilus to Hongkong. And I don’t believe and will never believe that Courtney has anything to do with this. I don’t believe in mistakes either, but I hope the “somebody” responsible for this will come forward and pay.

Even more because (like in other cases) Courtney can be forced to pay all the costs of travelling to HongKong etc…etc…

Theo

[ridgeback]

[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3477952]
It’s no secret that I screamed it from the rooftops that the USA would be stupid not to take CK and Mythilus to Hongkong. And I don’t believe and will never believe that Courtney has anything to do with this. I don’t believe in mistakes either, but I hope the “somebody” responsible for this will come forward and pay.

Even more because (like in other cases) Courtney can be forced to pay all the costs of travelling to HongKong etc…etc…

Theo[/QUOTE]

Since you are the all knowing look into your crystal ball and tell us who did it…

[egontoast]

I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with the testing (don’t know) but would you all be up in arms if it were Satchmo or Salinero who tested positive.

Come on, now, try to be honest. Pretend the FEI release is about Salinero and then let’s hear what you have to say about it.

There weren’t a lot of people here standing up for Ulla as I recall.

[passagedreamer]

freestyle2music: Their is only 1 person responsible for their horse at any CDI or FEI recgonized show !! And that is the rider … plain and simple… and CKD is an experienced horse woman and SHOULD have known better. And come on… it was the OLYMPICS !!! Please… No excuses…whether she is a beautiful rider or not… she should be totally embarrassed and SHOULD pay her own way to Hong Kong ( WITHOUT ) the help from her Sponsors !!!

And if it was Surpass … please… that has not been legal for months !!!

[Eclectic_Horseman]

@egontoast;3477990

There weren’t a lot of people here standing up for Ulla as I recall.

Testosterone is quite a bit different than capsaicin or a topical NSAID in my opinion.

[Seal_Harbor]

@MHM;3477866

Here’s my question:

How is it fair that this person got to compete all the way through the Games with no announcement, when the show jumpers got bounced before their final?

What if the show jumper B samples come back negative?

They all came back positive.

[poltroon]

[QUOTE=egontoast;3477990]
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem with the testing (don’t know) but would you all be up in arms if it were Satchmo or Salinero who tested positive.

Come on, now, try to be honest. Pretend the FEI release is about Salinero and then let’s hear what you have to say about it.

There weren’t a lot of people here standing up for Ulla as I recall.[/QUOTE]

Well, you saw what I had to say about the show jumpers. I think they’ve gone all out of control and I think they picked a stupid time to ratchet up the sensitivity. I don’t think they’re catching people who are harming horses or taking unfair advantage.

Do they have any data for each of these substances to know what dose at what timeframe produces what result? For god’s sake, if we’re talking about shampoos creating positive tests, then I’m thinking that one take-out order of szechwan food for the grooms could’ve made every horse in the place positive for capsaicin.

Zero tolerance makes sense for reserpine, or cocaine, or other serious and detrimental substances. It does not make sense for the rest.

Remember, these rules are supposed to be about PROTECTING THE HORSE. It’s to protect the horse, not a purity test.

Well, I guess I’m glad that Brentina had her bad day after all.

Am I paranoid to be thinking that there still may be a shoe to drop for the Individual jumping?

[magnolia73]

I think it is very strange that some of these things are banned- especially the capsacian. I wish there was a way to allow for some of the drugs that are therapeutic, but not masking. Drugs that make it comfortable for a horse to be shipped around the world, competed for several days at the top of its game. Yes, even a bit of bute. They are athletes, not robots. Yes- chiro and massage can help, plus ice. But they can only do so much. I pop an aleve after a hard run- makes it easier to get up the next day. If I’m hurting and don’t need to move- I know it. I don’t see why we do not give horses the same comfort.

FWIW, I doubt any of the people caught had anything but the best interests of their horses in mind. To me, doping is a horse getting steroids to build muscle or a huge dose of bute to cover a soundness issue or some Ace to keep it quiet. Rubbing a potent cream on a joint or treating a skin issue with some steroids is hardly creating some huge advantage, its just basic horse care.

[ridgeback]

“The competition results will be amended as indicated in the Tribunal’s final decision.”

So where will this leave the team in the team competition?

[BLBGP]

Anyone else waiting for Ridgeback to apologize for saying that only show jumpers bend the rules?

It’s a bummer.