First time dragging arena - is this normal?

This is the solution I would suggest. If you have the wrong sand, fiber will not save you and it is very tricky to install. What part of the country are you in? Your sand looks too soft to me. For example,the silica sand used w fiber footing is way too soft for an arena by itself.
Can you go to quarries and look at the sand yourself? I think your arena guy made a mistake, as did the quarry.
You are not the first person to have problems w an arena. And you won’t be the last.

1 Like

My outdoor footing has gotten better over the years. I think it’s because the weather “weathers” it. Perhaps if you take an inch out, it will be rideable. My outdoor drains well, but if we have a torrential rain, it gets soft and mushy like that.

Don’t despair.
I’d agree with taking some out and seeing if you can find a manufactured sand instead, that’s a sand crushed down from stone. Limestone is my area of knowledge but I assume granite might also work. You want something angular to get you more grip. This is why we don’t use 100% river sand, it rolls around too much and is slippery.

So the issue is sand is different everywhere and different locations call the same sand different things. So it’s really hard for people to tell you the sand is the wrong sand because their sand might be totally different.

If your arena guy has actual experience with english arenas, called the quarry, and they said that everyone buys this sand and that is what he bought then it likely the right sand for your area.

You should not water until your arena is soup. You should water until it is wet and packs down if it is too shifty and deep.

Arena sand can and will work into your base over time especially as it rains and dries. This will result in less sand, a firmer sand, and sand that might actually get hard if you let it dry without dragging. This is all normal.

Have you ridden in it? How does it feel? Did you hire a professional to do the base, and what did they do? I’m asking because it shouldn’t be soupy a day after watering it. It might be soupy a day after you get 3 inches of rain in a storm.

There are fiber additives you can correct improper or deep sand to that will make it rideable (true tex is one of them) but you need to add it correctly and you need special drags. I personally don’t want the special drag to keep it mixed in so I have only sand.

If you feel the footing is too deep and has not firmed up then I would get someone with arena experience and a skid steer to remove some of the sand. Put it in a pile because you will probably have to put it back next year once your arena settles.

My arena was a little deep and shifty the first year. I had to keep it watered. The next spring it was PERFECT. Now I do need to make sure I drag it a few times after it rains otherwise it hardens but it is still great. This is all normal arena behavior.

There are very very few arenas that drain perfectly immedietly after torrential downpours. Those arenas are VERY expensive. My arena drains according to how much rain we got, how much wind, and how much sun. I can get 4 inches of rain and it is rideable the next day or I can get 2 inches of rain and it needs 24 hours.

4 Likes

Honestly, from the beginning of this thread until now -

I think you drug deeper than you thought on that first go-round. I think you were at 2.5-3" depth. You fluffed it all up.

Then, seeing the ridges, you backed off the depth and drug again. That fixed the ridges, but is still all fluffed up.

Do you have a simple roller that you can gently pack the arena back down with, and then DONT drag so dang deep?

It’s a hard sell to call the arena builder and say “so, I drug the arena wrong three days ago and now it feels deep, fix it.” I think you need to roll this back to reasonable firmness and start over, with your new knowledge of the drag and its behavior. If it’s still iffy after that, call the builder to come remove some.

4 Likes

Thanks so much for your responses. I just feel so stuck right now, and any help is beyond appreciated.

I live in South Florida, and I know the person who did the arena recently completed one for a trainer I used to know—so he’s definitely familiar with English arenas. That’s part of what’s so confusing to me. This is what he does for a living—he’s a professional—and my neighbor, who used to have a barn and arena and is very particular about things being done right, recommended him. Shouldn’t he know what to do and what not to do?

He did our coquina base too. Our arena was professionally done from start to finish—or at least that’s what I thought. I’m afraid to make anything worse, but at this point, I don’t really think it can get worse. I just want to find the best solution.

Yesterday was the first day we tried watering and dragging. We didn’t water before dragging since it had rained a lot a few days earlier, and my neighbor said the conditions looked right for it. Before dragging, the footing felt so firm and compact that I actually thought we didn’t have enough footing at all. I would’ve never guessed it would turn out this deep.

But right after dragging—while still dry—it was soft and deep. Then this morning, we watered it, thinking it would help since the arena hasn’t been watered in about four months, other than a few storms. My trainer thought it would improve things, but it only made it worse. It became even looser, deeper—just completely unrideable.

Before watering and after watering, it’s still the same: deep, soft, and not safe to ride on. I honestly don’t know why he would give us something that’s clearly wrong when he should know what’s right, especially since this is his line of work. I’m just feeling really defeated.

Yeah, it was our first time dragging and we were trying our best. I told my dad to start at half an inch—you can always go deeper on the second drag if needed. He said he was going to do that, but afterward, he said it might’ve been set a little lower.

To be fair, he didn’t really have it marked, and I don’t think he meant to drag that deep. He said it ended up being more like 1 to 1.5 inches on the first drag, but there was still about 2 inches left to the base. So even though that’s deeper than I wanted—and maybe more than we should’ve done—it still wasn’t that incredibly deep, and shouldn’t create a problem like that right?

It actually looks like you had the profile blade angled down, pulling the drag deeper and deeper on each pass. Profile blade MUST be put level.

If he drug 1-1.5" inches and you still had 3 inches to the base, you have too much sand.

I’d get a roller, roll the crap out of it, actually drag it at 1.5" and try riding in it for a couple weeks and then decide if you need corrective action or if this was a learning moment. :slight_smile: Don’t panic. It’s just dirt, it can be fixed.

3 Likes

Okay, thank you! I’m trying to stay positive and I’m okay with this being a learning moment. It stinks if it was something that could’ve been avoided, but if there’s a way to fix it, then that’s okay—we’ll figure it out.

Is there any chance that this could affect the base at all? Our base is good, and I really don’t want a base issue on top of the sand issue, which seems like an easier fix.

Also, it still sounds like this isn’t very good sand. My trainer said that when it was dry, it felt slippery. So maybe we dragged too deep, but it also sounds like this just isn’t the best sand either. I just don’t think dragging a little too deep would make it this bad.

1 Like

Also, I remember my dad stressed about the profile blade being even before starting and spent some time making sure and said it was perfect, so I don’t know. And, it’s more like there should’ve been 2” not 3” (my mistake) between the blade and base of the drag was set to 1”-1.5” and I think it was because he showed me exactly where it was set and we measured it and he was very sure that’s what it was. We’re definitely learning and my dad is trying to figure it all out on his own and I think he’s definitely doing his best.

You said in an earlier post that it was firm until your Dad might have gotten a little over enthusiastic with the drag. I’d suggest what @endlessclimb said about getting a roller and packing it down. Just wait until it dries out a bit first. :wink: If it was firm before, it should be better with some time.

3 Likes

If that is truly “river sand” as you said in an earlier post I just noticed you will unfortunately never get it firm. River sand is sand that has eroded into rounded grains. Irregularly shaped sand grains (angular sand) is what you needed. A true experienced equine arena building professional is who you need to seek advice from. You may be looking at taking up the current surface and installing a correct type of riding arena sand.

2 Likes

I’d also suggest OP go and look at/take a sample of sand from arenas this person built in the past that work well and compare it to the sand that is in the arena in question now.

Did the arena builder use a different quarry this time?? When I was redoing my indoor, I was shocked at how there is absolutely no consistency of sand names among quarries.

4 Likes

OP, I think you just overwatered it and may have accidentally dragged too deep. As water goes through, it displaces sediment. As you drag it, you displace the sediment more. Now you have saturated sediment on top of a base that likely has nowhere to go. Dragging it wet will just make it worse.

IME with dragging/watering - it’s one or the other, not both at the same time.

I wouldn’t listen to your trainer. JMO. I ride in an arena off property that is entirely river sand. I love it and wish I had it at home. Drains so fast, not too coarse, and fluffy. It can be spongey after a thorough rain but it’s wonderful when it gets really hot and dry. Yes, it’s not the same as angular sand. But in your location I am not sure it matters so much.

After all you’ve shared, I would take a deep breath and a big step back. Let the water and the sediment settle for a few days. Then drag again perpendicular to the direction your father was going. Ride in it for a few weeks and see if you need to scrape some sand off the base and add a different type (angular sand).

GGT won’t fix the issue. :roll_eyes: Tell your trainer she’s welcome to pay for it.

5 Likes

Over and over!

2 Likes

One thing you could try is to drive over it a bunch with a tractor or truck to pack it down. Then drag just the surface to fluff up a bit.

I know someone who did that and was very happy with the results.

1 Like

I would let it dry out then drag it to the proper depth.

As I said earlier, if it is indeed too deep and shifty and nothing else fixes it adding fiber DOES help, but that has it’s own issues (cost, new drag, keeping the fiber mixed in).

Thank you so, so much for all the responses. We’re feeling much better today about everything. We’re figuring it all out and learning as we go, and I know it’s a process. We’re just going to keep trying our best.

We’re putting together a plan moving forward based on all the helpful suggestions and opinions. For now, we’re going to let the arena sit untouched until it dries. Once it does, should we try dragging it first at a shallower depth, or should we compact it down before doing anything else?

My dad was thinking about taking the profile blade off, flattening out the rake, and then going over the arena like that with about 150 pounds in the back. Alternatively, he has a friend who owns a compact roller that we might be able to use to go over the surface. Which approach do you think would work best?

Once that’s done, when should we water—before or after dragging? How often should we be watering and dragging and how far apart and in which order should they be? I know every arena is different and we might have to adjust it according to that, but we’re just looking for a safe place to start to build a good routine.

Also, if it’s still too deep and soft—which I think it might be—how much sand should we consider pulling out? Would half an inch to an inch be enough, or should we just eyeball it? We have about 3 inches to the base right now—it’s fluffy. And our base is still solid, so I’m thankful for that.

I’m also wondering if we need to mix in a different type of sand—something more angular for better stability and grip. If we go that route, how much of the new sand should we mix in with the existing material? And if we do add angular sand, should we remove even more of our current sand to maintain balance?

I know it’s a lot of questions, but I finally feel confident. If we let the arena rest until it dries, compact it down properly with something heavy, then drag again at the correct depth—possibly removing some sand and adding in a better-suited type—we can definitely get this figured out. With the right watering and dragging routine, I think we’re on the right track.

We’re learning every step of the way, and I’m hopeful that with patience, trial, and a little tweaking, we’ll get the footing just right.

THIS.
Sorry, OP, but this is your issue, and no amount of watering or harrowing will ‘firm’ your footing to become more supportive.

IMHO,your best bet is to remove some (1/2, 3/4?) of this sand and replace it with angular sand.

A lightweight lawn and garden roller won’t pack enough. A heavy vehicle like a pickup truck would be better. If you use your UTV or truck to pack, load up the bed with as much weight as possible.

Regarding a roller, buy or borrow a water filled roller as heavy as you can find and still be able to pull it with the UTV. When I was compacting my sand arena I used a Brinly brand roller that weighed 700 pounds filled and I could have used much heavier but had reached my cost ceiling. It sells on Amazon for around $435 today.

Some folks believe a tire packs better because it has a flat contact area on the bottom, versus a rigid roller with a tiny contact area. That makes some sense to me.

1 Like