It is very difficult to flip a horse. I usually start with a forward roll. Then get them to canter up to a ground level full sized trampoline and do it in the air. That’s the front flip. The back flip is more difficult. Teach the horse a backward roll. Then canter up to a ground level full sized trampoline and do it in the air. Some horses lack confidence and will require a spotting belt. With practice the horse will usually develop enough amplitude to flip on command without the trampoline. Sadly, the bottom line is that outside of circus folk most people really don’t want a horse that can flip so you are working with a very limited market.
Don’t buy a horse you wopuld not want to keep yourself.
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if you want THAT horse likely someone else does too
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If the horse does not sell quickly well at least you like it enough to keep it
Unless you have your own farm it’s extremely difficult to make any money. The costs of boarding just adds way too much to your expenses.
If you have a place to stash a horse for the cost of feeding it, you also need to find:
- Sound
- Sane
- 16 hands minimum
- Good color/chrome
- Not expensive to buy
I’ve done a few project horses and they always took much longer to turn around than I thought they would. I’m not a pro and I have a job and a family so I couldn’t spend as much time as you might be able to, but unless you find a real diamond in the rough, retraining can take longer than you think. Also in this economy, finding a buyer can take longer.
I’ve been very successful “flipping” sales horses. Actually, I wouldn’t call it flipping them, because they have all been longer term projects, 1-2 years. Here are my thoughts:
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DO NOT BUY A THOROUGHBRED. I LOVE thoroughbreds. All my “forever” horses are and have been thoroughbreds (except one, he was a QH). But, they are a dime a dozen. Even with a ton of mileage, they are never worth what a fashionable breed will bring. Get yourself a WB or something popular and fashionable or something with a niche following (I have had luck with Andalusians for dressage, etc). I have flipped a few TBs myself but these days with the market being so bad it is really hard to sell a TB for what it is worth.
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Don’t even consider this if you have to pay board. I have never paid board on a sales horse. I worked out of my family farm for a while, and later I got stalls as part of my compensation as a barn employee. Now, I own my own farm. You cannot make money on a sales horse when you are paying $350+ a month boarding it, plus its other expenses.
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You HAVE to show the horse. It has to show, hands down, no one will pay anything for an unproven horse. Cough up the money for entry fees and go. Even if the horse is green and thus not placing great, and the very least you get some video of it at a show, keeping its head on its shoulders, doing its job.
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Buy something you can teach lessons on. This will help the horse pay for its own bills while you own it.
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Do not buy something without papers. Just because someone says its imported or its Dutch WB doesnt mean it is. If they cant prove to YOU what it is, you can’t prove to your buyer what it is. PASS!
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You can find a nice prospect for around $3k that will meet these criteria. Its hard to find but its out there. But, don’t expect to make that $700 skinny grade horse down the road worth $15k. Probably won’t happen. Spend a little more and you will be able to bring a lot more back to your pocket later.
I hope this is helpful - I have been successful (and lucky) to have made some good money selling horses. Good luck!
A little surprise for me on this thread:
What up with you all distinguishing between the (better) economics of flipping horses if it’s your farm vs. the impossibly bad economics of doing that while boarding? I thought we agreed that there was no money in boarding so…why the difference?
[QUOTE=mvp;7123682]
A little surprise for me on this thread:
What up with you all distinguishing between the (better) economics of flipping horses if it’s your farm vs. the impossibly bad economics of doing that while boarding? I thought we agreed that there was no money in boarding so…why the difference?[/QUOTE]
If you have to board your horse then you are adding cost to the bottom line each month.
Last time I bought a project horse I paid about $2K for her. It costs me about $300/month to keep a horse (co-op barn costs), so after I’d had her a year, she had cost me $5600 not counting shoes, vet expenses and misc. I sold her for $6500 and figured I’d just about broke even. It was fun but not fun enough to keep doing it! She was ready to sell sooner but it took a few months to close the deal.
I paid under 75 a month for that corral and shed on the chicken farm with pasture in coastal bermuda mix access on the property ( they ran a dozen head of feeders each year) and easily available alfalfa that goes a longway kept additional feed costs dirt cheap in summer and I did not carry any in winter when there was no pasture.
In the same time period, regular board was running 250 for bare bones to 500 for fancy a month depending on facility. I only made 2 or 300 off each 3 month flip. Paying even the bare bones board rate would have eaten over 100 a month in potential profit.
Even today, you could probably keep on your own place or private field board for less then 50% of even a basic commercial boarding place. Easy.
Also, specific to flipping as the OP asked about- its all about a quick turn around and price point to move it quickly. Every dollar counts against profit if you are really flipping as a business. Keeping yourself also mitigates losses if you can’t move one as quickly as hoped, least you don’t lose months of commercial board rates watching a horse you bought to sell, not please yourself, sit there and eat.
[QUOTE=mvp;7123682]
A little surprise for me on this thread:
What up with you all distinguishing between the (better) economics of flipping horses if it’s your farm vs. the impossibly bad economics of doing that while boarding? I thought we agreed that there was no money in boarding so…why the difference?[/QUOTE]
Most decent boarding operations are not running at a loss, just not earning enough money to make it worthwhile to deal with all the crazy that comes with this industry. It’s a labor of love or a way to get the BO something they want/need (i.e., wouldn’t be able to afford maintaining the ring w/o the extra, or it pays for their horse’s feed/bedding). It’s income, it’s just not “a living”.
But at a certain number of horses, it is more economical to not pay full board. The problem for a person who wants to flip horses, is if you fall below that point then there is no good answer. It is a significant chunk of change (eating into your potential profit) to board them or lease a dry stall/do the work yourself. Chances are if you have one horse and want to also have a sales horse, you just aren’t in the right slot to make it work unless you already have an awesome deal for your horse keeping costs (like your parents own a farm and let you keep your horse there).
But if you have enough horses where you have already made the investment in your own property, then it might be a different story. Then your only challenges are:
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are you as awesome as you think you are (seriously, training horses is hard and buyers are picky - can you make your prospect significantly better in 90-120 days? Better so not just YOU can ride it, but potential buyers can get the same results or close to that level.
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having potential buyers/contacts lined up for when the horse is ready - just advertising doesn’t cut it, you need to have clients ready to come look.
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a good eye for the horse’s potential.
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luck
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luck
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luck
I couldn’t do this. I know others can, but I am a sucker.
I had project horses and some that I bought to ride and show, with the intent of selling them in the future. One I ended up keeping until he was old, retired, and had to be put to sleep. The other one I was terrified I was going to ‘break’ my ‘investment’ so I was afraid to push him to excel, therefore not really putting any training on him. I had him for years, and sold him at a loss (sold him for what I bought him for, plus all the expenses of board, vet, farrier). I bought a horse in October to ride a while, show this summer, and sell because after I retired my jumper, didn’t want to love another horse like that again, especially while I was supporting the retiree. Well, I had to put my retired guy to sleep in March and this new horse absolutely became a doll with the extra attention he is getting. I’ll never sell him because I am too attached and he is the sweetest horse with the best brain ever.
[QUOTE=mvp;7123682]
A little surprise for me on this thread:
What up with you all distinguishing between the (better) economics of flipping horses if it’s your farm vs. the impossibly bad economics of doing that while boarding? I thought we agreed that there was no money in boarding so…why the difference?[/QUOTE]
If you think in terms of AVC vs. ATC (average variable cost/average total cost), the extra marginal costs for a sales horse are not that high. Grain, hay, shoes, shows, vet. When you factor in your overhead is when boarding, and flipping horses, becomes a bust financially. However, most of those costs I already incur for my personal horses (tractor, mortgage, electricity, water, etc.) and dont go up with one extra. so for a sales horse I can justify my accounting to myself if I use AVC to see whether I am doing ok on the sale. But really, when apportioning ATC for the taxman, rarely is any profit made because there you do factor in its share of the overhead.
These responses are all great! Any more opinions?
