What can people tell me about this stallion? He seems to have a lot of approved sons who have also gone on to become successful sport horses.
What kind of mare does he suit best? What does he potentially add and detract?
he has had his time and was dismissed.
never made it beyond basic s-class under most professional rider and there has to be a reason for it.
never been used in the netherlands as much as in germany and i guess the dutchies knew why.
and yes, he did breed a lot overhere in germany, even despite the EVA issue.
there also was a full sibling licensed but got lost in now-whereland.
FI doesn’t duplicate himself in breeding (throws all kind of progeny with no red line of recognition) and my personal impressions from the first years (when i was still keen on him, hoping for a stallion to reproduce himself in breeding), his kids simply don’t move through their back.
no suppleness and often hindlegs out. we had some prominent offspring in our barn (florenciano, early years with ingrid klimke, today hubertus schmidt) and even he still proves the very lack of above mentioned features, even under a “reitmeister”. that horse would be nowhere without mr. schmidt.
perfect example of wonderful pedigree proving that breeding is not a question of pedigree but always question of looking at the indvidual horse and how it produces.
What about his son Floriscount fannie mae?
[QUOTE=fannie mae;7992770]
he has had his time and was dismissed.
never made it beyond basic s-class under most professional rider and there has to be a reason for it.
never been used in the netherlands as much as in germany and i guess the dutchies knew why.
and yes, he did breed a lot overhere in germany, even despite the EVA issue.
there also was a full sibling licensed but got lost in now-whereland.
FI doesn’t duplicate himself in breeding (throws all kind of progeny with no red line of recognition) and my personal impressions from the first years (when i was still keen on him, hoping for a stallion to reproduce himself in breeding), his kids simply don’t move through their back.
no suppleness and often hindlegs out. we had some prominent offspring in our barn (florenciano, early years with ingrid klimke, today hubertus schmidt) and even he still proves the very lack of above mentioned features, even under a “reitmeister”. that horse would be nowhere without mr. schmidt.
perfect example of wonderful pedigree proving that breeding is not a question of pedigree but always question of looking at the indvidual horse and how it produces.[/QUOTE]
Interesting to hear this assessment. What about his Canadian-based son, Fabregas? He has a few approved sons in Germany, himself.
Fannie Mae - I’m a little disappointed at your strong convictions regarding Florencio… And yes, I know that in Holland he had the reputation of producing “midgets”, but I still bred one of my “basic” mares, Natuur to him and ended up with the best horse I ever bred in my 30 + years of breeding… Her name is Bardot S. E., she’s a true 17 hands, and she got her Ster rating (Keur elligible) and ended up in the top 5 of the country. Is she perfect? Not quite, but then there is also the dam to consider and Natuur is a heavy, powerful mare with legs that need length, and a type that needs overall “modernization”. But Natuur also has lots of power in her movement, something she definitely passed on to her offspring, including Bardot S. E. Bardot then proceeded to produce some extraordinary foals for me… look up Flash Gordon S. E., her first by Sir Donnerhall I.
So my experience with Florencio has been excellent and I would recommend looking at his offspring and what they’re doing before condemming a horse that doesn’t deserve it. How many times have you heard (or made the statement yourself) that the stallion should be the “icing on the cake”? You know that you need to start with a quality mare before you can even think about producing a quality foal…
As always, just my opinion…
I agree with Seigi regarding Florencio and his offspring. I was always of fan of the sire himself and even more so of his sons, especially Floriscount and Furst Nymphenburg (although his front leg conformation is not the strongest). Both of them are doing quite well in sport as they both qualified for the Nurnberger Burgpokal in 2014.
Separate from that I have seen many mares at the mare shows by both the above stallions that were superb, especially Floriscount.
So time will tell, but I am excited to see in the next few years how they mature.
Interesting to hear two very strong opinions about him! He piqued my interest when I was looking at Floriscount and saw that he had sired so many other licensed stallions.
If he is such a shot in the dark, is Floriscount a safer bet?
FI doesn’t duplicate himself in breeding (throws all kind of progeny with no red line of recognition) and my personal impressions from the first years (when i was still keen on him, hoping for a stallion to reproduce himself in breeding), his kids simply don’t move through their back.
never been used in the netherlands as much as in germany and i guess the dutchies knew why.
[QUOTE=siegi b.;7992958]
Fannie Mae - I’m a little disappointed at your strong convictions regarding Florencio… And yes, I know that in Holland he had the reputation of producing “midgets”, but I still bred one of my “basic” mares, Natuur to him and ended up with the best horse I ever bred in my 30 + years of breeding… …So my experience with Florencio has been excellent and I would recommend looking at his offspring and what they’re doing before condemming a horse that doesn’t deserve it. How many times have you heard (or made the statement yourself) that the stallion should be the “icing on the cake”? You know that you need to start with a quality mare before you can even think about producing a quality foal… [/QUOTE]
siegie, i totally agree with you!
reason i wouldn’t recommand any stallion as the “icing of the cake”, anyway. they all have their individual strength&weaknesses and what they produce might yet be another case. and yes, there is a suitable mare out there for any stallion, and maybe your’s is just the right one for him?
problem is, we always only know afterwards and up until we do the only guideline is trying to recognize and exclude weaknesses of existing get.
no intention to indemn.
and smiling at the “midgets” you are throwing in 
actually, throwing midgets is not the reputation he gained overhere. my personal understanding is rather the contrary. he really throws all kind (lacking a recognizable stamp, that is) and the ones i recall are rather on the taller side, at least the more popular ones:
florenciano, floriscount, fürstNymph I&II, fineliner, charmeur etc.
the german FNyearbook shows nearly 700 offspring by florencio registered in sport. additionally, we can assume about half that number in holland and elsewhere. to come up with 1.000 kids registered in sports it usually takes 3-4times the number of foals on the ground to start with, as only every 3rd to 4th foal really makes it to the FN yearbook as a sporthorse one day.
thus, in the case of florencio we can assume a ttl production of 3.000-4.000 foals on the ground. normal distribution has it, that there will always be some 10% of better than average quality around. so one can expect some 300-400 better horses form florencio in any case just to fulfill standards of normal distribution.
if yours is one of them - good for you!
of course you should be happy with it!
did you repeat that breeding, may i ask?
reason i ask is:
did he produce a similar horse the second time or completely different?
nothing wrong with throwing diverse progeny (many stallions do so) just makes it harder to figure comparable issues to the good or bad.
perfect example to prove the theorie of the sire’s disperse heridity.
i know the full sibling to floriscount and it is a completely different horse. even the owners didn’t know it was the full sibling to him until i asked for the pink papers o/o curiosity…
i have known floriscount since young age and consider him slow in his hindelg by nature (similar to belissimo) and not easy to build up and establish healthy body tension/suspension and collection. his early years under less professional riders proof a somewhat poor sport record and right so. having met on oliver ölrich (who i know well and consider a strong rider) totally changed the horse&reputation (which wasn’t a favourable one before).
floriscount is exactly the horse complementing ölrich’s indvidual riding style, the kind of horse he needs and looks best on and makes the best of. and he does.
heridity i can’t tell. his eldest kids turn 5 this year and i only know one son o/o dam by wolkenstein from regular training who i consider completely wolkenstein.
Fannie Mae - funny you should ask about breeding back to Florencio… The answer in my case is no, I didn’t breed the same mare back to him because I don’t believe that you get the same good results every time. Remember how older breeders would say that if you get a really good foal the first time, don’t breed back because of some formula that said you could get 4 different offspring - excellent, good, average and not so good?
I did breed my Jazz mare to Florencio and got another beautiul filly with excellent gaits but she only finished around 16.1 hands (maybe a little taller). Sold her for a good price as a weanling and she initially got all the right training and was started by a very well known trainer here who liked her a lot. Then her owner had to sell her (again for very good money) and that’s when the horse’s problems started… You see, the mare is solid black, a color that is very much in demand by the American hunter riders, so that’s where she went. Never mind that Jazz is KNOWN to have no jumping talent… Oh well, make long story short, we will never know what this mare could have done in the dressage ring…
Life in the fast lane…
Here is a Florencio mare doing GP: http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/one-watch-alice-tarjan-each-day-elfenfeuer
Really lovely mare, btw.
Edited to add this link to another article:
http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/index.ssf/2015/02/oldwick_dressage_rider_is_competing_in_world-class.html
I just read that the Dutch have awarded Florencio the Keur predicate.
[QUOTE=RunningwaterWBs;7994017]
Here is a Florencio mare doing GP: http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/one-watch-alice-tarjan-each-day-elfenfeuer
Really lovely mare, btw.[/QUOTE]
I just watched this mare go in the GP Special this morning. LOVELY mare, lovely rider too. Going into the break I think they had the highest score (66+%). The mare was a gorgeous mover, soft in the bridle and very obedient and relaxed. I think a good representative of her sire.
So I guess I can look forward to start my Florencio Granddaughter next year. The breeding wasn’t exactly my choice and I would have never done it (bought her mother in foal) but so far I cannot complain… Very nice to handle, 3 super gaits and seems to get a good seize (although both her mother and her Sire were not extremely tall) This is my second horse out of the F Line… My first was a Future-Donnerhall Gelding and I was not too thrilled with him. So I am hoping that this filly will be a better representative of the F line…
