For those who start their 2 year olds under saddle

They are 2 when their actual birthdate says they are 2. Some horses are physically ready for extremely light work on their 2nd birthday, but I have always preferred to wait on mounting and riding work until they are both physically and mentally ready which varies from horse to horse. 2 1/2 to 3 years old is my norm.

There is a lot you can do with a 2 year old in preparation for under saddle work later in the year that doesn’t run the risk of stress mentally and physically on their bodies. When you finally do mount for the first time it is usually a non event in the horses mind. I take my time on all gaits as well and the horse may go a year or more just walking and trotting before canter work is started.

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I think I am going to try the colt in the OP tomorrow!

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My guy has been super slow to mature and he wasn’t started until he was 5 (which I kinda regret because he has aged out of the NA Stallion test and we will have to now go the performance route). He has taken to his undersaddle career quite well and even waits at the gate to come in and work. I guess time will tell on his talent and soundness…

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When I look at the (almost) 2 year old warmblood dressage youngsters at the barn - there is a reason why they are in the pasture and not under saddle. They don’t have to earn money or please someone, they know the foal ABC, trust people and are used to different noises and visual impressions.

I think it’s interesting that the posters who are really pushing the 2yo or late yearlings being under saddle are from western cultures.

With 2yo futurity classes those horses are well broke and showing heavily and you don’t see any of them after 7. When I rode western pleasure 8 was old.

While I wouldn’t want a horse to go feral until it was 5 or 8 I think a horse that is being handled daily, lunged or long lined, etc then it transitions to under saddle work well.

Not me, I started many colts in (continental) Europe for many years, all four and older.
Also started a good three dozen feral horses, from four to best guess eight/nine, maybe a bit older.
Then started and trained many, many race colts and ranch colts and all kinds of western horses.
Spent several decades starting horses under saddle, all kinds of horses, of many different ages and sources.

I am not talking from just one angle, but about the studies that show, starting a horse early for what is going to do in it’s life has shown to carry one advantage that we didn’t know about before and found out after we checked that old idea of waiting to start one.

That doesn’t mean starting a horse under saddle at any one age is “bad” in itself, just that starting one early is definitely not “wrong” either, as we used to think and even has some advantages.

It never hurts to learn more, then decide what every one wants to do with more information at hand to ponder over.

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This has become a pet peeve of mine. I have a filly (mare now?) born 4/30/2016. In the fall people would ask me how old she was and I’d say three and a half. They’d say “Oh, so she’s coming four.” No, she’s 3.5 years old. I bet if her birthday was in August they would still say the same thing. NOW I’ll say she’s “almost 4” but still don’t call her a 4 year old.

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I think one reason people waited until mostly mature to start horses was that they needed horses working and to go places.
Horses were in full work right off, they didn’t spend time sitting in pastures and pens and stalls and ridden a bit most days.

For that kind of life, you could not get a two year or even three year old up in early morning, ride him ten or more miles to the neighbors before daylight to be there to start working cattle all day and then ride back home.

So, you waited until a horse was old enough to take that kind of riding, where a youngster would have been overfaced, overwhelmed and soured if ridden that hard.

Similar for farm or traveling horses, that is all people had to get around before motorized vehicles.

We use horses differently today, we haul them and then do relatively little work, then haul them back and put them up.

A different world, that requires at times rethinking what we do and how with our horses, that’s all.

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FWIW, even though my photo is in a western saddle - I grew up riding hunters. :wink: My first world title was in the Jumpers.

I still have a 22 year old mare, broke at 2, sound and showing and won a training class last fall.

My 10 year old is my main show horse, broke as a long yearling, still sound and showing in the all around with no maintenance.

I think people like to try to paint western riders as yahoos with no regard to a horses longevity, but I promise you that isn’t the case. In fact, in my particular breed, the biggest fault I would consider is that they keep breeding mares who can’t hold up to training or break down early. “Make them a broodmare!” … cool, so we can have more horses that don’t stand up to work? That’s not an age problem, it’s a breeding fundamentals problem.

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If I don’t know the actual birth date, I just assume it’s sometime between March and May, unless it’s a race-bred TB. I have one born on 4/24, two unknowns that I assume are in the spring, and one who it is kind of hard to believe was born in December into a hoarding situation. He was rescued as a yearling and I got him at about 18 months, and the shedding of his baby teeth supported the December birthday theory.

That’s usually the case, but if you ask the owner, and she gives you a fairly precise age, well… she probably knows! People don’t do this with their kids, so I don’t see why we’re so quick to round up with horses when they’re so young.

Dressage horses normally are startet at 3, 3 1/2, (stallions for approval earlier which is criticised on and on), Spanish Riding School starts horses at 4. They are not “in full work” from the beginning, they need years to grow into their jobs and get the strength to carry a normal weight rider and show their exercises in tests and shows. Sniffing into higher classes starts at the age of 7 or 8 - if.
I doubt that this racehorse research should be read as a carte blanche to work warmbloods under saddle and I doubt that this research proves all the dressage trainers and military officers wrong who recommand to give horses time.

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But it does… Because there’s also research that disproves the old wives’ tale that ‘breeds having different rates of musculoskeletal development’… Modern horse breed[s] mature at the same rate - this has been studied quite lengthily. Individuals might grow slower than others, but studies have proven that there is no gross difference in musculoskeletal maturity/development among breeds.

You have to remember that warmbloods have only been genetically distinct from TBs (and what made TBs) for a blink of an eye in terms of time or ‘evolution’; you only need to go about seven generations back in most TBs and/or WBs to see significant shared ancestry. Warmbloods are not so far removed from TBs and other contributors to be organisms with entirely different musculoskeletal maturity rates. Even Iberian breeds, which have been distinct for far longer, share the same maturity rate as other breeds.

It’s not that they’re doing it wrong. They’re still producing rideable horses. The study just points out that responsible and appropriate limb loading at a young age is beneficial to the horse’s tissue development.

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Thanks for clarifying that.

What bolded is what I was trying to explain, obviously not well.

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Bluey’s post is perfectly how I feel.

Some horses are suitable candidates to be ridden, carefully, and skillfully, and intelligently, early. Some are not. If a horse is growing butt high at that age, I’d rather leave him unstarted until he at least is looking closer to being level. But if he’s level, well grown, well coordinated, well muscled, he’s a good candidate.

Warmbloods often lack the muscular and neurological development that TBs and QHs have at that age. The bones are equally immature in each breed, but as long as the training is done skillfully, that is OK, if the muscular and neurological development are there, like they are in most individuals in the TB and QH breeds. Because they have been selectively bred for this.

Young horses who develop soundness issues due to their early training were either trained incorrectly, or have an intrinsic flaw or fault that may have been previously unknown, which has come to light, and would have come to light eventually anyway even if the training had been withheld until older.

There are ways to correctly train and ride young, immature horses. Good race trainers know how to do this. Poor ones don’t. I had one local horse owner tell me how BAD it was to break and train a 2 yr old, because she knew someone who did it who weighed 200+ lbs and galloped the 2 yr old up a mountain daily. Duh, the horse developed hock arthritis as a result.

There is a difference between correctly riding an immature horse, and being greedy. Being greedy will usually result in damage to the horse. Training with the young horse’s long term best interest at heart usually won’t.

The advantages to the horse in beginning training as early as possible for that individual, the bone and joint surface development that can be achieved by careful stressing immature structures is well documented, and has been known by race trainers for centuries. Early careful training and riding is what makes these horses sound for racing, the most demanding of sports. And “surprise!!!”, also for three day eventing after their race career.

My own thoughts on this issue are that if a trainer does not know how to correctly start a long yearling or two year old under saddle, and elects to wait until they are four, or older… how do they magically know how to start an older horse? And now a horse whose immaturity and window of opportunity to remodel for maximum strength has been lost? Horses who do not have the muscular and neurological development at an early age to be able to be ridden (carefully and correctly) tend to be those who have soundness issues in later life. Thus, all the lame warmbloods you see, who have been broke as 4 yr olds by people who are trying to do the best thing for them (and not being “greedy”, like those horrible race trainers and owners are) and have had a life of trotting around in a riding ring, and do not have the excuse that an OTTB may have… that they have raced (high speed, high impact fiercely competitive discipline), may have been over raced at some point in their life with greed and lack of long term interest of the horse.

it’s not “early training” that damages horses, it’s poor training, lack of skill and poor decisions of a trainer. Many of us were indoctrinated as youngsters in the theory that young horses should not be ridden because it would damage them. But some of us have re-evaluated that opinion. It is possible to ruin a horse at any age. And more likely if a trainer is inexperienced, stupid, greedy or uneducated.

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I’m trying really hard not to be the old woman, set in her ways, but I’m struggling with changing my long held beliefs on this.

Yes I believe that the earlier you work with the mind the better, the more a young horse is exposed to and experiences in a positive way the more it sets it up for life.

There are many things that I have had to adapt my thinking on, but this is a tough one for me. I know that QH’s are often started a lot younger, and keep going until a good old age, but still I don’t like it.

i guess my original point is still “where do we draw the line?”

I get every horse is different, every situation is different, but riding a horse who is still months away from their 2nd birthday seems much to soon. If I had to draw a line it would be top side of two for sure.

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It is still a ‘no’ for me. First because I see 2 year old warmbloods ( 2 year old also can mean they turn 2 in spring/summer, so at the moment they are not even 2 years old, depends on how people handle the birthday of a horse) daily and there is no research to tell me to start them under saddle, not even with a featherlight rider. Second because my biggest fears with researches like this is that some people make conclusions that are not in the horses benefits. There are too many riders and trainers who have no clue how to start a young horse properly, one day they’ll ride foals and tell me, it is ok.

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Science only gives us data to go by.
It is up to the one taking note of that data if and how to use it.
Can’t blame the data collectors for what the data shows?

Doesn’t make sense to withhold data so someone, somewhere, won’t possibly misuse it?
Science doesn’t work like that in the free world.

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Is it a QH colt in ON? If so I just did ride #16. I think there needs to be a distinction between backing and full training maybe?

I don’t blame the researchers, I fear people who misinterpret and don’t draw the line wisely. Scientific data need a context and some data are not understandable for everyone.

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