Forward Schooling-Littauer

[Jackie_Cochran]

This is just me going over things in my head. I have NO PROOF of anything I will write here.

I am wondering if there would be fewer horses with Kissing Spines and other back troubles if they were properly trained by Forward Schooling, ridden by riders only using the Forward Seat and using Forward Control, ala Littauer in “Common Sense Horsemanship.”

Right now, to save the back of the 30 + year old QH I now ride I make good and sure to have my seat bones as close to the pommel as I can manage (with my Pegasus Butterfly Claudia jumping saddle this is easy.) I spend as much time as I can in 2-point at the beginning of the ride. When I sit down in the saddle most of my weight is on my public bone and the front part of my seat bones, and my seat bones DO NOT carry weight when I ride. Riding like this is the only way I can get his back to relax and “swing”, when I sit back like a proper dressage seat he cuts his speed in half in spite of my vigorous use of my spurred lower legs, not using the spurs themselves, and his back will.not.swing…

Only one lesson horse I’ve ridden the last 15 years or so did not appreciate this. ALL the other horses just will not give me that wonderful flat-footed 4 MPH walk with a swinging back unless I get my weight off of my darn seat bones.

I try to have my weight on the rear prolongations of the trapezius muscle instead of on the top of the Latissimus dorsi on its aponeurotic tendon. There are more muscles under that area that can act as cushioning to the front of the back. The bone/muscle/tendon setup of the front leg in set up specifically to take the greater weight of the neck/shoulder/upper arm without jarring the front legs. No collar bone, the shoulder floats over the ribs held by numerous muscles in many directions, I am really impressed with the “biological engineering” of this particular load bearing structure.

The horse’s back essentially has none of this. Many of the muscles in the lower layer are either to hold the vertebrae together or to BREATHE, not to bear weight much less cushion the weight.

Kay Russell had around 70 horses, most of them living sort of feral lives on a few hundred acres on rolling land. A lot of weekends, and also many weeks for her summer camps, she would bring many of these horses in, get the students to groom and tack up and these horses mostly acted like they had not had months of vacation living sort of “wild”. Very rare bucking, very rare lifting the forehand off the ground (I did not see or hear about a full rear), and these horses carried the not very experienced or skilled students around with minimal problems, mostly problems caused by the rider needing to ride the FS better.

COULD training, schooling, riding, and controlling a horse by the methods of the FS, including Littauer’s training program, help these horses (none of them fancy) not develop KS???

What do all of you experienced FS riders, trainers and instructors think?

[NaturallyHappy]

@Jackie_Cochran

COULD training, schooling, riding, and controlling a horse by the methods of the FS, including Littauer’s training program, help these horses (none of them fancy) not develop KS???

I’ve wondered this, too…and also about SOME cervical arthritis. I say SOME because the only two I’ve ever had experience w were horses ridden very upside down by very poor riders.

[fivestrideline]

It is unlikely that a riding style will prevent the development of CA or KS - however a long and low frame and minimal rider input on the face (aka NO CRANKING) can certainly avoid triggering the milder cases. That’s how we rehab such horses.

It is my experience that some KS horses are just fine toodling around and/or being allowed to go in a longer and lower outline, but the moment they get into more advanced work (even good dressage work), or are asked to carry themselves differently, they fall apart.

There are also cases where improper work can cause a minor CA/KS case, but these horses tend to self correct with good work and minor intervention. Not so, IME, with the really gnarly ones.

Basically, a change in riding style may work quite well for a certain horse - and poor riding (no matter what you call it) is detrimental to ANY horse.

[BAC]

@NoSuchPerson

@BrownDerby

The hunter fences were pretty straightforward to say the least. Not one diagonal.

I remember those days. Equitation classes were twice around the outside and done.

Twice around the outside for maiden and novice, in limit we got to finish by going across the diagonal for our last line.

[FAW]

He was Bernie Traurig’s trainer when Bernie started showing in his teens. Littauer was the basis of Bernie training in clinics, the American forward riding system

[McGurk]

Famous story that Littauer left after Bernie’s first Maclay round because he felt Bernie no longer needed his coaching. (Bernie was the eventual winner that year)

[BrownDerby]

Another student of the Captain who competed there was sporthorsefilly, who used to post here. She’s still active, as far as I know, in hunter breeding in MD.

[Jackie_Cochran]

Vladimir Littauer is one of the prime examples of refugees from political oppression in Europe coming to our country and REALLY INFLUENCING part of our culture.

Whatever non-veterinary problems you have with your horse, schooling your horse ala Littauer’s training program will eventually yield results if the rider is CONSISTENT. Forget about collecting the horse to do something, the horse is perfectly capable of collecting itself when needed. When your hands “belong to the horse’s mouth” amazing levels of finesse are possible. Getting one’s seatbones out of the saddle removes another source of pain and blocking the movement, stuff that inevitably irritates the horse. During relaxed pleasure riding the horse and rider can truly become as one as their bodies dance with each other.

If I can do it, most people should be able to get these results too. No need to be super athletic, even old frail people can benefit from riding Forward on the flat. One valuable asset of Littauer’s first book of instruction for the Forward Seat is a discussion of what older, not so physically fit people can do to help their horses while trying to ride Forward, in other words for all us old, frail riders with physical problems. Santini even gets into how to ride FS with a side-saddle.

Old horses definitely do benefit by being ridden, re-trained and controlled by Forward Seat methods. This is what I have been doing the last 10 to 12 years on the older lesson horses, on the flat and no jumping. It does not matter that I have MS, I can still ride Forward Seat every time I get up on a horse.

[FAW]

He raely showed up to coach Bernie at shows, just saying to him “tell me how it went” Bernie was another “natural”

[McGurk]

Yes, Bernie was a natural, but the whole point of Littauer’s Forward Riding System was to develop independent horseman who could self critique according to the system. (Amazing what hunter showing has become instead, where riders won’t jump a round unless their trainer is at the rail.)

If you wanted to stay at the elementary or intermediate levels, you could, and happily hunt and show safely; but part of the system was teaching you how to develop a horse.

Back when dinosaurs ruled the earth and I did those rider ratings at Sweet Briar, an important part of the evaluation was how you critiqued the ride. You had to give your assessment before the examiner gave you theirs.

[Fun_Size]

And the most fun in a clinic I’ve ever had! I would LEAP at the opportunity to do that again.