Free lease gone bad

[Bay_Hair_Don_t_Care]

@blitzkrieg

Given what you’ve said, you have some things working for you. You’ve had other horses ship in and train with this trainer in the interim that this pony has been used in her lesson program? The judge is also going to question why she hasn’t invoiced or inquired about board payment of this horse and allowed you to bring additional ones in and out of the farm. That simply does not follow her narrative of abandonment.

This.

I am far from a legal professional, but I absolutely do not suggest “stealing” the horse back in the middle of the night. This is a bad idea for so many reasons. At best, it could look really bad in civil court and could result in YOU having to pay HER for breach of contract (for the 6 months notice). At worst, it could result in criminal charges or even possibly being shot or something as an intruder on her property. As great as it may sound while we’re all chatting on this forum in a safe environment, this is a bad, bad idea.

I think she’s just bluffing to try to get you to back off. Does she have proof that she has tried to contact you for board or anything like that? No. Do you have proof that you signed a free lease contract? It sounds like it. As others mentioned, gather up any and all evidence that you might have, and be prepared to fight.

And this is a reminder for all of us…you should always, always get important contracts in writing and have them notarized. It can seem so awkward when you’re dealing with family or friends, but things can turn nasty later, and it’s just better for everyone.

[Sswor]

Go during business hours and get your pony. You don’t need a lawyer, you just need a bill of sale–your bill of sale, and a horse trailer. And I’d suggest a witness and a video camera. These things happen. It doesn’t need to be a big deal but go get your pony before she sells it or hides it.

[George_the_pony]

Yep been there, done that, have the t-shirt. I went first thing in the morning with a trailer, and a copy of my bill of sale and picked up my pony. Left them a letter thanking them for everything - kept it professional and then have severed ties…Go pick up your horse. If they believe your going to pick up your horse in 6 months, I would be very suspicious of the level of care that horse would be getting.

[Bay_Hair_Don_t_Care]

@Sswor

Go during business hours and get your pony. You don’t need a lawyer, you just need a bill of sale–your bill of sale, and a horse trailer. And I’d suggest a witness and a video camera. These things happen. It doesn’t need to be a big deal but go get your pony before she sells it or hides it.

Are you sure this is true?

“The agreement that I had signed stated that should I want the horse back I just need to provide 6 months notice (suitable time to find a replacement).”

[TheJenners]

With the trainer’s statements, leading OP to believe that waiting longer may cause her to lose her property, yes I think she can go get the pony.

Plus the trainer said she never signed, so the six mos doesn’t apply.

[cloudyandcallie]

Some of us know from the experiences of our friends that when you try to do things rationally, the other party will use threats and intimidation to prevent removal of the equine. Since the trainer said she is not abiding by the contract, take a law enforcement officer with you to get the pony. And take friends and witnesses. Record on your cell phone everything the trainer says and does.

Now if the trainer wants to litigate, well if she is going to charge you board and expenses for all those years, you countersue for the fees she got for using your pony as lesson pony. Especially if pony was shown. I would think the trainer would owe you money under her theory. And you did not abandon said pony when you boarded your horses there and worked there. No judge will fall for trainer’s baloney.

Get a lawyer and get the pony out of there pronto. I once had local cops meet me and my friend at a boarding barn to get her old eventer out of there without someone getting shot, Literally. I also took a wad of my own cash for when the BO demanded more money from my friend. We did it. Do not leave your pony with her.

And years ago in Pennsylvania a group of Cothers got back consignment horses and ponies from a trainer who tried similar crap. The judge did not buy that story and the terminally ill owner got all her horses and ponies back.

[WildLittleWren]

I highly doubt this trainer will take the time and resources to sue you. Especially if she knows she doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Take a law enforcement officer and go get your pony, before he disappears

[Beck]

@IronwoodFarm

What has been said about the documentation is correct; you need to get that in order and seek legal help.

My question is about the pony/horse – you called it both. It seems that things have continued swimmingly until there was a falling out and custody of said horse is part of the fall-out. How old is this horse? Does it have any particular value? Is it doing well at this barn? Do you have a pressing need for this horse?

I would put the best interests of the horse first. It may be better for the horse to stay at the barn and remain a schoolie. Or perhaps it needs a retirement that you can offer. I don’t know, but your argument needs to be informed what works best for the horse.

Seems to me since the OP is severing ties and moving out and taking all other belongings with them, this would look like the OP was in fact ‘abandoning’ the animal at this point. Rather ironic in light of the fact the OP has been accused of abandoning the animal already.

[Sswor]

@Bay Hair Don't Care

Are you sure this is true?

“The agreement that I had signed stated that should I want the horse back I just need to provide 6 months notice (suitable time to find a replacement).”

Yup. At best this is a civil dispute. TRAINER is the one that should get a lawyer is he/she wants to stake a claim on a pony she/he doesn’t own, never bought, and has no bill of sale on. OP OWNS pony. Go get your property. Problem solved. Much ado about nothing.

[cloudyandcallie]

The BO locked the gate on my friend’s horse. Cop had to make her open it.
I started carrying wire cutters in my truck the next day. Always carry wirecutters.
Go get the pony with witnesses. Move everything you own.
I learned to 1. find new barn; 2. move horses and tack; 3. then give notice with the requisite month’s fee for each horse after mine were on the trailer headed out.
Only safe way to deal with BOs, unfortunately. One BO quit feeding a kid’s horse when the mother and father gave notice.

[mmeqcenter]

@cloudyandcallie

Only safe way to deal with BOs, unfortunately. One BO quit feeding a kid’s horse when the mother and father gave notice.

This is so absurdly common it’s disgusting. Happened to me a couple times when I boarded. I just do not understand it. SMH

[Scribbler]

In our jurisdiction the police will not get involved on either side of this kind of ownership dispute unless you have already got a court order. Think about it. They have no real proof you do own the horse.

If a crime is committed in relation to the horse, like assault or trespass, they would get involved for that. But you can’t just ask a city policeman to come with you.

That said if you are able to get the horse out of there, there is very little chance the trainer will come after you legally. If she got any legal advice at all they’d tell her to let it go. Even if she went to small claims court shed need to present proof that you signed a boarding contract and that she actually asked you for money.

Trainer is lashing out because you’ve upended her world and she has lost best lesson pony and her barn help.

Horse pros are often impulsive and irrational. It’s all the TBI. Seriously.

[TheJenners]

I’ve seen horses on stall board tossed into a field after proper notice, but I digress.

OP if you want LEO to come with you, state it is a “civil standby” because you are concerned there might be an assault or she may try to block you in, etc. Do not mention the lease. The trainer is not able to prove you owe money and wants to claim she never signed a lease, so she is screwed. Or she will admit she signed a lease and wants her six months, but still you have her threat, which negates the lease and or the abandonment issue. She is screwed.

Also, wire cutters don’t do jack against locks. What you want are BOLT CUTTERS. Please and thanks :winkgrin:

[IronwoodFarm]

@Tbfan03

The agreement that I had signed stated that should I want the horse back I just need to provide 6 months notice (suitable time to find a replacement). I do this and with in 6 weeks get a letter stating I abandoned the horse 8.5 years ago and owe back board, and she states she never signed the agreement.

My bolding. I don’t think anything can be resolved until the agreement is found and the signatures verified, If the trainer did not sign, it gets much more complicated. As others have said, this is a matter that requires legal advice.

[rothmpp]

@mmeqcenter

This is so absurdly common it’s disgusting. Happened to me a couple times when I boarded. I just do not understand it. SMH

Horse people wonder why we are not considered a legitimate business. With the frequency that this happens it’s no wonder.
Of the last three boarding arrangements I had, only one went south with notice. And I was not the only one that this happened to at that barn. They no longer board, which is for the best for the horse community. I caught them one afternoon feeding my horse a feed he was allergic to. “I didn’t want to get another bag of the other feed since he’s leaving next week” was what the excuse I was told. I would’ve paid for the bag had I only known.

OP - you said that you worked and lived there for a decent period of time. How many lessons do you think your pony was being used for each week? Once you gather all your documentation and speak to a lawyer, you might ask the attorney about a potential $$$ settlement for the loss of lesson income if you gather up pony before the 6 months. Some sort of net loss of income (expenses less lesson income) settlement if you have some funds available.

[cloudyandcallie]

@TheJenners

I’ve seen horses on stall board tossed into a field after proper notice, but I digress.

OP if you want LEO to come with you, state it is a “civil standby” because you are concerned there might be an assault or she may try to block you in, etc. Do not mention the lease. The trainer is not able to prove you owe money and wants to claim she never signed a lease, so she is screwed. Or she will admit she signed a lease and wants her six months, but still you have her threat, which negates the lease and or the abandonment issue. She is screwed.

Also, wire cutters don’t do jack against locks. What you want are BOLT CUTTERS. Please and thanks :winkgrin:

Yes good advice.
And mine are the big bolt cutters. Don’t know why I called them wire cutters, duh. They will cut chains and locks. Thanks for clarification. And yes, when you ask for cops to come, tell them it is for safety of everyone and to maintain the peace.

[Beck]

@TheJenners

Do not mention the lease. The trainer is not able to prove you owe money and wants to claim she never signed a lease, so she is screwed. Or she will admit she signed a lease and wants her six months, but still you have her threat, which negates the lease and or the abandonment issue. She is screwed.

Bingo.

[Sansena]

Would love an update OP.

[enjoytheride]

I think your first indication would have been her requiring 6 months notice to replace the pony. That’s INSANE. Go get your pony, the trainer admitted to never signing the lease so there is no need for 6 months or any notice. She also failed to give you any sort of notice that you had “abandoned” the pony with her, and that’s a hard sell in court since you were physically on the property almost daily.

Show up with a trailer and a friend on Monday and take the pony.

[Palm_Beach]

I’m confused - is there a contract that was signed by both parties?