Free lease gone bad

[NEEDS_A_NAP]

This has all been sadly familiar reading. And I think Scribbler nailed it.

Years ago, when I was still a horse mom (daughter is now an adult), a BO who I respected very much said to me, " I never trust a trainer who wants to play too much with my kid." It took me a few years to realize what she meant.

All of this personal relationship, living in the house, “giving a kid in a bad situation a chance”, drama, drama, drama - pat me on the back on social media - from the “mean trainer” makes me want to run far away from her program.

[trubandloki]

@Scribbler

Then everything implodes 8 years later. Trainer orders OP and her horses off the property. OP responds by saying saying fine, but I want the pony too just to spite you, because it’s the only thing of mine you value Trainer says only if you pay me 8 years back board ( which would be unreasonable even if this was a free lease) and then works the lein law to get pony ownership awarded to her (possibly not entirely honestly).

The way I read it the trainer filed for the lien not based on the board from all the back years but the lack of board paid for the pony between the time the OP said ‘it is my pony’ and the time the lien was filed.

[RubyTuesday]

@Denali6298

Did you read what the BO wrote? Her side is she put a lien on the pony, put the pony up for auction per CT law and then bought the pony herself.

From the FB page, I found a post urging people to help get the pony back and that she contacted the resident state trooper. This post was a week before the OP came here acting like she didn’t have the pony.

Yes, I did read that, what I am commenting on is the other posts on her page that were along the lines of “All those poor kids!” If all the people/kids at the barn liked the pony so much but didn’t buy when it was available, that’s their bad luck and it doesn’t add any credibility to the people posting. If the OP is dishonest or has stolen a pony that doesn’t belong to her, that’s one thing, but if the pony DOES belong to her, it doesn’t make her heartless or a bad person just because she retrieved the pony and didn’t leave it there for them. Some of the posts just had no bearing on the truth or falsehood of the story. Hell, I like the pony from way over here, that doesn’t mean someone is a big old meanie because they’re not bringing him hither. :lol:

[JanM]

However this got to the point of the pony going missing in the middle of the night, the trainer has a legal claim after the auction, and the pony went missing after that. The OP might want to consider returning the pony before the state police catch up to her, and this gets even worse.

[RubyTuesday]

@Scribbler

Or BO could have let OP take her pony along with the other horses when she evicted/fired OP, and be shut of the whole mess and drama.

It sounds like BO is not averse to a little drama herself.

^^ We have a winner! That, and GET IT IN WRITING!

[Denali6298]

Maybe the parents of the lesson kids can’t afford to buy a horse? Maybe they knew the BO was going to buy it back? Who knows?

I’m inclined to believe the bulk of the BOs story as the FB posts happened two weeks before the OP and she is not hiding her identity.

Of course the OP isn’t heartless if it really is her pony. This debacle is crazy for sure. I doubt though, that the police would be involved and trying to get a warrant without proof from the BO.

[RubyTuesday]

@Scribbler

The trainer is part of the drama.

Obviously if the trainer thought OP had given her the pony, she would have no expectations the OP would be paying board on the pony.

When the trainer said “if you want pony back you need to pay 8 years if back board,” this is a not uncommon way for trainers to respond when they want to make it impossible for someone to retrieve a horse.

It’s playing dirty. But it also puts the trainer in an awkward position because they are in fact acknowledging the owner is the owner.

The trainer says she then took the step of getting a lien on the pony so that trainer could auction her to herself and become legal owner.

I am curious how the lien process works because if there was no boarding contract in place then there was no proof OP owed back board. And if OP had just expressed a desire to take the pony away, then the pony is not abandoned. If OP had been living on-site with pony until the big divorce then wants to remove pony, it’s not abandoned.

So if trainer did do the lien process, she must have fibbed a bit as well in writing out the reasons for the lien.

Bad behavior and maximum emotional damage all around for sure.

Exactly! And it doesn’t matter if the OP told one person or a 100,000 people she was giving the BO the pony, if there is NO bill of sale, people getting emotional willy-nilly doesn’t change anything.

[starhorse]

Trainer says she has multiple boarding contracts signed by OP.

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=starhorse;n10084289]
Trainer says she has multiple boarding contracts signed by OP.[/QUOTE

I think some of the points being made here are from the Facebook pages, which sound like a perfect storm of people crosstalking at one another, and I haven’t the energy to go follow all of that. I’m not sure the emotional drama being played out between all the various boarders and lesson moms adds much clarity to the discussion of how ownership was transferred here.

Going by what has been said on COTH: at any rate, whatever OP signed at what point, it’s clear the trainer made no effort to collect board on the pony for 8 years, because trainer states that she understood the pony was given to her by either OP or the mother of OP.

And indeed, even if it was a “free lease” of indefinite duration, the trainer couldn’t expect board from that.

If you give a horse out for “free lease,” the person who has been using that horse can’t refuse to give it back to you by saying suddenly you owe board on it for all the years they kept it and used it.

Either the pony was a gift to the trainer, or the pony was free leased to the trainer, and the first mention of having to pay back board was when OP was kicked off the property and wanted to take the pony with all her other horses.

The question here is really, was ownership of the pony actually transferred, or was the pony on an indefinite informal “free lease” that could be terminated by any party at will (as is typical of free leases)?

I lose respect for the trainer for retroactively claiming back board on the pony, because that’s just obviously silly and a kind of emotional blackmail. And it sounds like trainer is fine with being in the middle of a FB firestorm that muddies all the claims. I would prefer not to do business with such people, for sure. It’s one thing (and not a very good thing) to get into these kinds of squabbles in private. It is a whole other level of cray cray to do it online and invite your entire community to the party. Not professional at all.

[Mondo]

I’m with you, Starhorse. There are an awful lot of super judgmental squawkers on here. I read 8 and a half pages before I’d had enough. This means you Scribbler, emipou and RubyTuesday. I’m so sorry that you have had so many bad experiences with trainers/BOs that you patently refuse to believe the BO side of this when multiple instances of PROOF - yes proof that will stand up in a court of law - have been offered. You just can’t believe that a BO isn’t somehow complicit or “loves the drama.” Please do not ever bring your horses to my barn. We’ll all be happier.

Why are so many of you having trouble understanding how the auction went? It’s not that hard. Read for comprehension. The BO followed the law. She didn’t “buy the pony back.” It didn’t sell, she was LEGALLY awarded the pony as she should have been.

And to all of you who encouraged this criminal act of horse theft - SHAME. Your only saving grace there is that the OP had already done it. Please remember, that horse theft is still on some obscure legal books as a hanging offense in some states. Not that it would ever happen, but it IS a crime. Even if you own the horse and the ownership is in dispute, it would be a crime if you stole the horse.

The OP’s story was so chock full of holes I didn’t believe it from the get go. It sounded like it was written by a child, not a recent college graduate.

Back to your nasty thread. I wish the BO all the luck in the world. What a terrible place for her to be in, all of someone else’s doing and now she’s getting dragged through the mud on a public forum. SMH

[WildLittleWren]

@Scribbler

Horse people don’t ask for paperwork in these ambiguous situations because neither side wants to make a clear decision.

At the start trainer didn’t really want pony because pony was bratty, and probably wanted the option of offloading back on OP in 6 months.

OP didn’t want to surrender full ownership, teen girls rarely do.

Trainer takes pony, turns it into lesson horse, both OP and trainer act like horse belongs to trainer but neither side care to rock the boat with a written statement.

Then everything implodes 8 years later. Trainer orders OP and her horses off the property. OP responds by saying saying fine, but I want the pony too just to spite you, because it’s the only thing of mine you value Trainer says only if you pay me 8 years back board ( which would be unreasonable even if this was a free lease) and then works the lein law to get pony ownership awarded to her (possibly not entirely honestly).

OP takes possession of the pony. Trainer calls police and blasts on social media. OP puts up untruthful account on COTH to see if she can gague how much legal trouble she’s in. Trainer responds on COTH.

Yes, a clear bill of sale 8 years ago would make it all clearer but quite likely trainer didn’t really want ownership back then.

I agree pony is probably better off with trainer and I understand trainer being sentimentally attached to pony.

I just think this is all using pony as pawn in emotional blowout between two folks given to drama.

I find this might actually be closest to the truth, at least from what I can discern from OP and BOs posts

[Mondo]

“OP didn’t want to surrender full ownership, teen girls rarely do.” This is an interesting observation. Was the OP a minor when all this began? BO could not enter a contractual relationship with a minor. But, BO (and folks on her FB) have indicated that many, many people will attest that OP GAVE her the pony. The end.

Does it not bother anyone that OP posted on here over a week after she had already stolen the pony?

[Denali6298]

[quote="“Scribbler,post:169,topic:445064”]

@starhorse

Trainer says she has multiple boarding contracts signed by OP.[/QUOTE

I think some of the points being made here are from the Facebook pages, which sound like a perfect storm of people crosstalking at one another, and I haven’t the energy to go follow all of that. I’m not sure the emotional drama being played out between all the various boarders and lesson moms adds much clarity to the discussion of how ownership was transferred here.

Going by what has been said on COTH: at any rate, whatever OP signed at what point, it’s clear the trainer made no effort to collect board on the pony for 8 years, because trainer states that she understood the pony was given to her by either OP or the mother of OP.

And indeed, even if it was a “free lease” of indefinite duration, the trainer couldn’t expect board from that.

If you give a horse out for “free lease,” the person who has been using that horse can’t refuse to give it back to you by saying suddenly you owe board on it for all the years they kept it and used it.

Either the pony was a gift to the trainer, or the pony was free leased to the trainer, and the first mention of having to pay back board was when OP was kicked off the property and wanted to take the pony with all her other horses.

The question here is really, was ownership of the pony actually transferred, or was the pony on an indefinite informal “free lease” that could be terminated by any party at will (as is typical of free leases)?

I lose respect for the trainer for retroactively claiming back board on the pony, because that’s just obviously silly and a kind of emotional blackmail. And it sounds like trainer is fine with being in the middle of a FB firestorm that muddies all the claims. I would prefer not to do business with such people, for sure. It’s one thing (and not a very good thing) to get into these kinds of squabbles in private. It is a whole other level of cray cray to do it online and invite your entire community to the party. Not professional at all.

Yeah but there is paperwork. There is boarding contracts. Then there is the problem of theft after the auction. There is no FB fire storm. It’s a post with pictures of the pony asking people to call the police if they see it.

You’re right that the pony was asked for out of spite by the OP. How was the BO supposed to know that a month after the horse was taken the OP would start this thread acting like this started recently and not in December?

[Denali6298]

@Mondo

“OP didn’t want to surrender full ownership, teen girls rarely do.” This is an interesting observation. Was the OP a minor when all this began? BO could not enter a contractual relationship with a minor. But, BO (and folks on her FB) have indicated that many, many people will attest that OP GAVE her the pony. The end.

Does it not bother anyone that OP posted on here over a week after she had already stolen the pony?

It probably also doesn’t bother them that the pony is most likely not being kept in the best conditions as people probably would have already seen it.

[RubyTuesday]

@Mondo

I’m with you, Starhorse. There are an awful lot of super judgmental squawkers on here. I read 8 and a half pages before I’d had enough. This means you Scribbler, emipou and RubyTuesday. I’m so sorry that you have had so many bad experiences with trainers/BOs that you patently refuse to believe the BO side of this when multiple instances of PROOF - yes proof that will stand up in a court of law - have been offered. You just can’t believe that a BO isn’t somehow complicit or “loves the drama.” Please do not ever bring your horses to my barn. We’ll all be happier.

Why are so many of you having trouble understanding how the auction went? It’s not that hard. Read for comprehension. The BO followed the law. She didn’t “buy the pony back.” It didn’t sell, she was LEGALLY awarded the pony as she should have been.

And to all of you who encouraged this criminal act of horse theft - SHAME. Your only saving grace there is that the OP had already done it. Please remember, that horse theft is still on some obscure legal books as a hanging offense in some states. Not that it would ever happen, but it IS a crime. Even if you own the horse and the ownership is in dispute, it would be a crime if you stole the horse.

The OP’s story was so chock full of holes I didn’t believe it from the get go. It sounded like it was written by a child, not a recent college graduate.

Back to your nasty thread. I wish the BO all the luck in the world. What a terrible place for her to be in, all of someone else’s doing and now she’s getting dragged through the mud on a public forum. SMH

We haven’t seen one iota of “proof”, and you’d be surprised at how low-drama I am to be around, actually. It’s because I am low-drama that I got my own place away from boarding-stables and their drama queens. We only have two parties’ word for it, one of whom has started a storm of hearsay on a social site that I have ZERO respect for. You know, it really doesn’t matter who thinks who can provide the better home, because at the end of the day, the paper trail (or lack thereof) will very likely win out.

Scribbler, I think your summation covers it pretty well for me.

[BasqueMom]

Got through about 5 pages…has the pony been found?

[demidq]

short answer- NO! stay tuned for more exciting programming

[RubyTuesday]

Five pages is all there is so far. You know what would be hilarious? If the OP isn’t even the same person the BO is involved with, but someone completely different. It isn’t like either side’s story is unique.

[llt]

I think that IF the OP actually held ownership of the pony, it is odd that the pony was removed from the property in the middle of the night, rather than go through legal channels get the pony. Also, if the pony was walked off the property it must be near by. If the OP doesn’t own her own barn or property, whoever is sheltering the pony is also suspect.

[Scribbler]

@llt

I think that IF the OP actually held ownership of the pony, it is odd that the pony was removed from the property in the middle of the night, rather than go through legal channels get the pony. Also, if the pony was walked off the property it must be near by. If the OP doesn’t own her own barn or property, whoever is sheltering the pony is also suspect.

You could park a trailer down the road and walk the pony to the trailer.