And not much difference from the denials of issues with horses with hypp and DSLD/ESPA before those became better understood and better researched… And undeniable.
It was my experience with the DSLD/ESPA people that there was definitely hostility about the suggestions of prevalence in certain breeds from breeders and enthusiasts, sadly.
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HYPP was known as Impressive Syndrome for quite a while before there was a genetic test for it. It’s not like it was a secret.
I’m pretty sure the threats were mentioned in the interview posted by @wanderlust at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szk4oSp_Rd4
Also, is it truly more common in WBs? That interview and related articles have cited rates of 38–50% in thoroughbred remains studied, though I do wonder if the samples may be biased. I haven’t seen mention of the rate in WBs.
I’d believe a threat was made, too, but I also think we’re saying the same thing–you keep tracing back, and it’s still present in ways that wouldn’t necessarily lead you to being able to say it comes from LineX because that’s too simplistic.
I really would be super curious about a study of historical equine skeletons, and maybe even some other equids, to see how long this has existed as an issue and how common it really is. Along with things like say, kissing spine.
The problem with stats, and I say this based on my experience with DSLD/ESPA and other animal ailments, is that to gather actual data is a long, arduous, expensive, underfunded slog.
So much of the early identification of an issue comes from horseman and anecdotal or observational knowledge that hopefully, someday, gets the attention and funding it needs.
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My understanding, from veterinarians, is that it is more common in WBs. Similar to WFFS, it seems tied to a specific phenotype - tall, long neck and body, and bred for sport movement. Rather than these things being a cause for the disease, it could be that this disorder piggybacks on desirable phenotypes and is bred inadvertently.
It could be bias there too - are high dollar WBs more likely to have owners willing to necropsy them?
I remember watching that video last year. It came up in this thread:
Curious - has this issue been discovered in other equidae, such as asses, zebras, Przewalski’s horses?
So - I do think that it is very easy to misinterpret the 38-50%. i watched a video on it. The person(s) doing the studies are looking at horses who are having necropsies done or put down for lameness issues. Some of the horses were suspected to have neurological issues. Therefore, my understanding is that the percentage reported is for that subset of horses, not all horses and would (obviously) not include the horses who lived soundly into old age. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.
That is what I was trying to remember. Since I had watched this a while ago I only remembered the 50% number, and just dove into it now quickly to find a few cited statistics including the 38% one. But my memory was that the studied vertebrae were from a mixture of NQR horses and just any skeleton she could get — the first likely being biased, and the latter likely less so. When she gave the observed rate of occurrence, it was unclear if she included all of those. (And the numbers she cited were small so any uncertainty should be large.) Which makes discussing this somewhat frustrating.
This would clearly benefit from systematic larger-scale study across more breeds and types of horses (and, as pointed out, other equines) but I understand that money and logistics make that difficult.
The people with suspected DSLD horses were sending samples, including leg portions, to Dr Halper (if I remember correctly) at the horse owners cost.
Im sure that helped move the needle on learning more about it.
I don’t think we have enough data to know if it is more prevalent in certain breeds and types; only that it has been found so far in noticeable numbers in certain breeds and types. First time I learned of it was a friend’s OTTB who had X-rays done as a teenage. We know it has been found in some high performing WB dressage horses as well. There is lack of agreement of clinical significance due to performance records of at least some of the population with it. Are those horses good movers because of it or are they high performers in spite of it? Contrast that with studies where the population is selected first based on neurologic signs, and you mightand and a reach a different conclusion.
It’s not developmental like neck arthritis or Wobblers. The growth rate and end size and ultimate length of the neck does not influence the abnormality, which happened before birth. Maybe as more people X-ray necks and backs of young horses and on pre purchase, more data can be collected.
Same here; not a Luso but similar. Cannot get the horse straight under saddle on the right rein. Ever. A dream to trail ride.
So, ECVM is genetic right? Is that a test that Etalon offers? It does not look like it (based on my quick search, correct me if I’m wrong). I wonder if they are working towards offering it…
Even if they’re working on it, they are not reputable and have had many instances of incorrect results.
I think the general consensus is that the ECVM skeletal malformation is most likely genetic/hereditary, but I don’t think we (humans in general) know enough about it to know which genes its associated with, so we are very, very far from a genetic test.
Copy. I was just following the HYPP line of thought of breeders checking for it before breeding (or at least having the results and making a decision).
PS After more digging, I found “Study | C6 Bone Study”, so seems like they are working on something related? (Not saying it will yield results, just that I found they are working on it)
Can you tell me more? Is there other options that are better? I have not gone down the genetic testing rabbit hole, just curious and asking questions to better understand & learn.
UC Davis is probably the gold standard, and Animal Genetics is trustworthy.
Not only are they notorious for incorrect results (saying a horse is HYPP negative and then said horse went on to have an HYPP attack because it was in fact positive, etc), but they also make up bizarre tests that don’t have any basis in science other than what Etalon says. For more examples, you can join any of the color genetics groups on FB and just search Etalon to see some firsthand experiences with their mistakes.
To me, it seems to be a huge
Crap Shoot when buying a high
dollar horse. Well, any horse but when you lay out big bucks, you
don’t really know what you’re getting.
Recently been reading all the
potential neurological problems
showing up in WBs and TBs and
I’m glad I’ve aged out of buying
another. Scarey out there.
on this same note… I was reading about Helgstrand’s recent sale where he scales back
his number of horses in training.
Numerous horses are reported to have stall vices and 4 reported
to have Shivers. These are young horses just being started and
to have 4 in the barn already
exhibiting neuro symptoms and
still selling them on to others is
a bit shocking IMO.
Yes, again according to my memory from viewing the above-linked video a while ago, the apparently-equivalent malformation in cattle has been tracked to one specific gene. However, at the time of the video, the work had not been done to attempt to identify an equivalent gene in horses, if in fact it is the same type of issue.
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