I’m of the view that the airlines can deal with their own problems if the dogs are such an issue.
I do know some doctors will issue a letter for an emotional support dog…but they are supposed to be small dogs and kept in their little fabric cages under the seat in front of you.
[QUOTE=threedogpack;8571778]
No they cannot. As per the ADA, there are only 2 questions an employee may ask:
GENERAL RULES
Q7. What questions can a covered entity’s employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.
http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
no, the biggest problem are the dogs posing as SD, who are not. They are not usually well trained, often exhibit aggression or fear and are a liability.[/QUOTE]
More PC run amok. There should be a notarized certification requirement.
There was a segment on GMA this morning on the same thing. They researched it and got an instant certificate signed by an MD for both a small dog and a 4-month-old PIG, and both traveled on flights without any trouble. The piglet, however, was asked for ID. Since I don’t think of pigs as being as house trained as dogs, I shuddered to think of the mess that could ensue.
Oh, and they also mentioned that miniature horses could be eligible. Now, that could be potentially very, very messy. And even a little horse could be quite the handful if it panicked.
[QUOTE=threedogpack;8571778]
No they cannot. As per the ADA, there are only 2 questions an employee may ask:
GENERAL RULES
Q7. What questions can a covered entity’s employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?
A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person’s disability.
http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
no, the biggest problem are the dogs posing as SD, who are not. They are not usually well trained, often exhibit aggression or fear and are a liability.[/QUOTE]
You have your laws wrong. The ADA does not apply to air travel, like I said. The ACAA does, which allows them to ask for credible proof that the dog is a service dog if it is not readily apparent. This means a doctors letter. If the scam websites would quit selling the doctors letters for people they’ve never even met then it would eliminate a lot of the fake dogs on planes. Which is what this topic is about.
It would not eliminate fake SDs in stores, but it would be a start to air travel at least.
[QUOTE=betonbill;8571892]
There was a segment on GMA this morning on the same thing. They researched it and got an instant certificate signed by an MD for both a small dog and a 4-month-old PIG, and both traveled on flights without any trouble. The piglet, however, was asked for ID. Since I don’t think of pigs as being as house trained as dogs, I shuddered to think of the mess that could ensue.
Oh, and they also mentioned that miniature horses could be eligible. Now, that could be potentially very, very messy. And even a little horse could be quite the handful if it panicked.[/QUOTE]
That’s great. Now, every entitled jackass will be flying in cramped quarters with their friggin pigs. And I will get the seat in the middle - between the Chihuahua on the window trying to attack the pig on the aisle. Flying is going to get even more fun - not.
[QUOTE=gumtree;8570423]
I know people who have been doing this for years. I don’t see it as being any big deal.
But I am far from being “PC” and I certainly wouldn’t be a member of the Nanny Patrol or PC police.
Me I would be happy to pay for a seat for my pooch if they would sell it to me. I’d rather have someone’s dog sitting next to me than a lot of the people I have had over the years.
As always to each their own.[/QUOTE]
Agree with the above
[QUOTE=csaper58;8571909]
Agree with the above[/QUOTE]
You think that, until the dog next to you is that aggressive Sharpei from the other thread, or the GSD that has to be muzzled that somebody has, and you spend the whole flight hoping not to get bit.
Should people be smart enough not to do that? Absolutely. Are they? Nope.
[QUOTE=vacation1;8571064]
I’d post a response to her FB celebration of behaving badly. She made the choice to brag about her unethical behavior. You don’t have to be nasty, but it’s worth letting her and anyone else reading it know that passing your pet off as a service dogs is not just a harmless little way to help your dogs fly safely. It has real consequences. Look at all the service dogs being rejected and thrown out of businesses in the past few years. I’m 41, and that is totally new - people have respected guide dogs and service dogs for decades. Now, everyone knows there are a ton of people gaming the system and all service dogs are open to question.
I’m strongly anti-BS with the service dog frauds. I’ve seen real guide and service dogs work and they are amazing. They don’t cause trouble, they don’t bark or snap or run away, and they seem almost unnaturally well-trained. I’ve almost had a heart attack on a bus, realizing that a 85lb German Shepherd was curled under the seat. I’d wondered what I’d been kicking gently for the past 5 minutes. Dog never moved, never reacted at all. These are some of the best dogs alive, and they deserve far more respect than to be thrust into controvesy because some people want to get the ‘special treatment’ of those who have a disability and a properly trained, appropriate service animal.[/QUOTE]
This absolutely. I would most certainly call out her unethical behavior. Good post, vacation1. Your first 3 sentences should be read and reread by OP and all of us, esp. OP’s acquaintance. Heck, your whole post is spot on.
I know someone with a legitimate service dog who has had more than one problem while in either a doctor’s office or a store with fake service dogs causing trouble while her dog behaves like a perfect gentleman and helps her keep her balance while she walks. This includes sitting in her doctor’s waiting room while the fake service dog continued to bark at her GSD and topped it off by taking a dump in the waiting room.
There are far too many dog-haters in the world already. For the other people in the waiting room, what do you think their opinion is of service dogs now?
GMA got an ESA bunny rabbit on a flight and the Today Show got a ESA mini pig on a flight. Only one airline asked to see documentation.
[QUOTE=dotneko;8571876]
More PC run amok. There should be a notarized certification requirement.[/QUOTE]
It’s to avoid harassment, not PC. However, I think some kind of license and/or a certificate from a regulated, licensed training program should be required.
[QUOTE=Just My $.02;8571975]
It’s to avoid harassment, not PC. However, I think some kind of license and/or a certificate from a regulated, licensed training program should be required.[/QUOTE]
The problems with this is 1) making it affordable to people with very limited incomes, 2) making it readily available to all, even those who cannot travel, 3) preventing people from just making fakes of that as well (underage drinking IDs anyone?) and 4) who is going to make and uphold the standards? It also eliminates the ability to owner train, which will drastically increase the wait times and prices of service dogs.
Many states are starting to institute a voluntary registration process, requiring documentation of training and need. The way to get people on board with these programs is to offer additional protections that the ADA does not. For example, my service dog in training has public access rights under NC law and is better protected from harassment and being refused service if I register him. It also allows me to not have to pay the for a county/city dog license.
I think that is the first step in the right direction towards stopping some of the scammers and fakes. I also think that they deserve to be publicly shamed for their deceitful ways, because it may be much faster than the legal system at changing their behavior.
[QUOTE=Horsegal984;8571920]
You think that, until the dog next to you is that aggressive Sharpei from the other thread, or the GSD that has to be muzzled that somebody has, and you spend the whole flight hoping not to get bit.
Should people be smart enough not to do that? Absolutely. Are they? Nope.[/QUOTE]
Two good friends and my cousin are flight staff. They have not encountered a problem.
If any dog behaved like you are describing, it would be cause immediate landing of the plane and a report would be filed with the NTSB. Those reports would be a matter of public record. They would also be all over the news.
Just because you can imagine something horrible happening, doesn’t mean it is happening.
[QUOTE=csaper58;8572489]
Two good friends and my cousin are flight staff. They have not encountered a problem.
If any dog behaved like you are describing, it would be cause immediate landing of the plane and a report would be filed with the NTSB. Those reports would be a matter of public record. They would also be all over the news.
Just because you can imagine something horrible happening, doesn’t mean it is happening.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately I cannot find the link to the photo of exactly that, a Malinois on a plane in a muzzle.
But I can find all of these, because might I remind you most people don’t pay for an extra seat, they just let the dog sprawl out anywhere, including across the isle and the neighbors foot space.
https://instagram.com/p/58D4LswAwA/
https://instagram.com/p/T4LmAEyCel/
https://instagram.com/p/t64nUTpjYk/
Ohhhhhh!!! Found it!!
https://instagram.com/p/8Th65TtJJr/
https://instagram.com/p/7ZFTjXtJEG/
So please, don’t tell me it doesn’t happen.
None of the people in any of those pics looks the least bit upset.
All the dogs look content and mentally balanced. Love that people in two rows are sneaking pets on the Husky. Looks like someone is sneaking him a treat.
Wasn’t that the Mal, that has to wear a muzzle because everyone tries to feed him tid bits and he has EPI (gut issues)? He has the most soulful eyes. I love dogs with that kind, intelligent expression.
The fact that NTSB doesn’t shut it down is what says there is no problem.
No, that’s an attack trained personal protection dog that apparently cannot be trusted not to bite in public.
The fact of the matter is that dogs (and other species, like that freaking turkey!) on planes is becoming a big issue. And the airlines are looking for a way to crack down on it.
I am a service dog handler. I hear stories daily from other service dog handlers about nearly being attacked by fakers, or the amount of harassment they get going way up, because of people like the OPs friend. It IS a big problem. Not just on planes, but it’s a lot harder to do anything about it at 42,000ft.
I don’t doubt you hear ‘stories’. People love to tell ‘stories’. Some people even like to embellish/make up ‘stories’.
Especially, when they are trying to make photos, culled from the internet, support an agenda.
Ugh, I know someone who does this too. I’ve known her for years and I do like her but she embodies every stereotype of the entitled, overfed American, down to the small dog with the fake service dog certificate she bought online. It’s infuriating.
I’d say it’s time to find new friends.
I’m trying to think of what I would do in a similar situation. I do not think that animals, whether cat or dog, belong in the baggage area, as some airlines require. Not safe and not ok.
I would pay for an extra seat for my pets if it was situation where the pet needed a seat. I feel like if your dog is more than 20#'s then you probably need to get an extra seat. That still doesn’t really help though because if you have a REAL service dog you should not have to pay extra for being disabled.
My cousin recently moved to the US from China. On their flight to Bejing from another place in China the airline, which was the only option, did not allow animals except service animals in the passenger area. Thankfully, it was a very short flight so their cats were put in the luggage area, but if it was a longer flight there is no way I would have let that happen. Their international flight did allow the cats, in carriers, to be carry-on luggage and went under the seat in front of them.
[QUOTE=csaper58;8572619]
None of the people in any of those pics looks the least bit upset.
All the dogs look content and mentally balanced. Love that people in two rows are sneaking pets on the Husky. Looks like someone is sneaking him a treat.
Wasn’t that the Mal, that has to wear a muzzle because everyone tries to feed him tid bits and he has EPI (gut issues)? He has the most soulful eyes. I love dogs with that kind, intelligent expression.
The fact that NTSB doesn’t shut it down is what says there is no problem.[/QUOTE]
You don’t have a problem with the giant husky in the aisle where the flight attendants and anyone going to the bathroom have to walk over him?
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