From a scribe's POV

[Dressage_Art]

Intentional voice is -2 every time for each movement if judge hears the voice clearly. Judge needs to be positive that it’s not a squeaking saddle or rider coughing and such. If there is a double jeopardy - the rider is penalized for being off course while spinning in a circle and calming a spooked horse - judge shouldn’t give both: voice error and off course error.

That said, I scribe as well and do see some judges who ignore some rules. Saw one time a Big Name Trainer started to school her rider in the middle of her test and judge didn’t do anything for that - yet it’s the reason for elimination.

[QUOTE=twnkltoz;2922568]
Although, I’ve seen someone get rung out because her horse was behaving horribly and wouldn’t stop…after the third time he reared, the judge said that was enough and sent her out.[/QUOTE]
“20 consecutive seconds of resistance” - is a rule for elimination. DR 122.L also if horse is endangering a rider, judge can eliminate that rider as well - one big rear can be enough for elimination. Judge should try to keep riders safe in the arena.

@NOMIOMI1;2922569

My horse did that at the last one shook his head off and on the entire test. I did get marked down but did go up in my scores anyway. The comment was nice horse too bad about the rain? I guess she thought it was raining on us out there or something. He hasnt done it since so dont know what that was about.

That is different than resistance for 20 seconds: what you had is your horse didn’t show the acceptance of the bit for that test. Your horse was resistant to the bit or your hands or your rein aids or a bug was biting him on his head - thus he was shaking his head as you say for “the entire test”. Shaking head for whatever reason is a quite large mistake and lack of the basics, but it is not a cause for elimination.

[Dressage_Art]

[QUOTE=twnkltoz;2922568]
Although, I’ve seen someone get rung out because her horse was behaving horribly and wouldn’t stop…after the third time he reared, the judge said that was enough and sent her out.[/QUOTE]
“20 consecutive seconds of resistance” - is a rule for elimination. DR 122.L also if horse is endangering a rider, judge can eliminate that ride as well - one big rear can be enough for elimination. Judge should try to keep riders safe in the arena.

[Dressage_Art]

[QUOTE=eggbutt;2922467]

• I’ve seen riders get a “0” on a movement and win the class because they were able to recover and ride the remainder of the test quite well.[/QUOTE]

WOW,… I would love to hear at what circumstances the rider was given a “0”. I never saw or even heard about a definite test where rider was given a “0”

[StrawberryFrosted]

QUOTE: “At a show last year, my horse got a bug in her ear or something and started shaking her head like crazy. I managed to keep her going and complete the movement and she stopped. We weren’t marked down, much to my surprise! At the same show, I went off course for the first time ever and almost went off a second time but fixed it just in time. I basically screwed up the test about as badly as I could. However, I got 7’s on my collectives and still got my best score ever!”

This is interesting that your horse was shaking her head and you didn’t get marked down…my horse has headshaking syndrome and shook once or twice in a test and I got marked down for “a fussy head”. How does the judge know it’s not a fly or in my case something the horse can’t control?

[twnkltoz]

I don’t think having a bug in their ear is lack of basics. In my case, if I recall correctly, she pinned one ear and turned her head to the side, then shook a couple times (if that makes sense). I was pretty impressed that I kept her going, though! She did stop, I think before the circle was over, and she was good the rest of the test.

[StrawberryFrosted]

Twink,
Makes sense about the shaking. My trainer said she was surprised my headshaker got marked down bc it sounds like he did the same thing that your horse did but his movement (of his head) was just a quick little shake side to side.
Well, maybe the next judge won’t mark me down bc she’ll think its bugs in the ear! :lol:

[twnkltoz]

Strawberry, I LOVE your signature!!

[eggbutt]

@Dressage Art;2923338

WOW,… I would love to hear at what circumstances the rider was given a “0”. I never saw or even heard about a definite test where rider was given a “0”

I’ve seen more 0’s given than 10’s!! A zero can be given for any movement that is not done…for example, if a horse jigs the entire diagonal instead of free walking, that would/could be a zero…“not shown”. Many judges will give a 1 or 2 if the horse is at least headed in the right direction but others will score what they saw, which was not the movement indicated on the test.

[system]

Is judging consistent on different show levels?

I was always wondering whether judges mark test the same way at schooling shows and at National shows. In other words, is it more difficult to get a good mark from the same judge at a National show? Those of you who scribe, and, therefore, may see the same judge in these very different environments, - what can you say?

[eggbutt]

The judges I’ve scribed for at schooling shows and USEF/USDF shows score the same. They may be a bit more relaxed and informal and speak to the riders at schooling shows but from my experience the scores and remarks are identical regardless.

I personally believe this perception of different scores depending on the venue comes from riders being more relaxed at a schooling show and riding better, therefore earning a higher score than at the larger recognized shows.

[Rhiannonjk]

[QUOTE=twnkltoz;2922840]
Is it a “voice” error if you say “good girl” or “you’re ok!” (if she’s spooking, etc)? Let’s say it only happens once.[/QUOTE]

I’ve had the voice penalty (at a schooling show, even) for saying “OOF!” when my mare decided to jump a puddle in the middle of my test instead of trotting through it.

[system]

[QUOTE=eggbutt;2924014]
The judges I’ve scribed for at schooling shows and USEF/USDF shows score the same. They may be a bit more relaxed and informal and speak to the riders at schooling shows but from my experience the scores and remarks are identical regardless.

I personally believe this perception of different scores depending on the venue comes from riders being more relaxed at a schooling show and riding better, therefore earning a higher score than at the larger recognized shows.[/QUOTE]

I 100% agree!!! A judge scores according to the standards. It doesn’t matter the show level. The only time I’ve seen judges be a bit easy, is when it obvious that a child (10 to 12 range) is doing their first show. You can see this pretty easily as they look scaed to death. They’re usually riding Intro and the judges don’t want to turn them off from showing. We’re not talking a big difference, maybe just the higher score if it could go either way. They tend not to get over a 55 even with the benefit of the doubt. I consider this a gentle act of kindness to a child that doesn’t affect anyone else.

Only at one show (2 tests) did I ever witnss hat I think was subconsious favoritism. I won’t get into detail here because I don’t want to infer who the judge is. I think the rider was given higher scores then deserved resulting in a high point based on what I’ll just call an “interest” in the rider. I later explained what happened to the show managemet and that judge was never invited back to those shows. Also, I will never scribe for this judge again.

[coloredhorse]

@Rhiannonjk;2924084

I’ve had the voice penalty (at a schooling show, even) for saying “OOF!” when my mare decided to jump a puddle in the middle of my test instead of trotting through it.

Could be worse. I got a voice penalty once for a blurted “well, sh**!” when I realized I was about to make a mistake of course. (The score for the awkardly corrected movement wasn’t great, either. :lol: )

[StrawberryFrosted]

Riannonjk…your post cracked me up! I pictured your horse jumping that puddle and you saying “oof”, just struck me as REALLY funny! :lol:
My horse didn’t jump any puddles but let’s just say as we trotted down the centerline, he zigged and zagged to avoid every puddle. :lol: The judge’s comments were “unsteady on centerline” I would have said drunk driver on centerline…so her comments were much nicer! :lol:
I guess my beast didn’t want to get his freshly shampooed whites dirty! LOL!

ColoredHorse, my friend said “sh…” during her test and got a -2. I was surprised she didn’t get dismissed…can you get dismissed for swearing? Just seems swearing is worse than saying “you’re ok or oof”! :eek:

[quietann]

Only ridden Intro, and only once at a schooling show, and on an elderly TB mare who is NOT a dressage horse, but…

I smiled at the start of my tests, and at the end. I had to work really hard not to snicker during test B, after the good mare decided that my attempt to urge her into a trot with more impulsion meant CANTER!!! (That’s just how she thinks. Trotting bores her, and she’s always looking for an excuse to canter. Plus it’s easier on her old hock injury.) I brought her back down and I think I was grinning for the rest of the test. I mean, the whole point of doing Intro was that it didn’t require cantering, because let us just say that our downward transitions from the canter are not pretty, and she cantered anyway, the goof! :lol:

The good mare had not been to a show in 11 years; she’s mostly been a pasture pet and trail horse for her former (now deceased) owner. At that first show, she was 2nd in a very tough halter class of TB mares – she really is gorgeous – and in training level dressage… well, she had to really, really check out the judge’s booth because OMG IT MIGHT EAT HER!

We got second place in Intro A and 6th in Intro B, mostly because we didn’t forget our test, and I wasn’t overmounted on her, unlike many others. And maybe the judge was tired of judging bratty kids and was just encouraging me, too

[Valentina_32926]

@feisomeday;2918283

Why are most riders so grim and miserable looking? Lighten up!

My husband gets after me for this all the time - says it makes me less tense if I smile. :yes:

Oh - and my trainer tells me to BREATHE! :lol:

[honeydoozy]

@feisomeday;2918283

Why are most riders so grim and miserable looking? Lighten up!

This is funny, because I find myself either grinning like a fool or… not.

I’ve come to identify that it’s not misery that creates that look… I think it’s focused intensity.

I’m trying not to take myself so seriously anymore. We’re not going to the Olympics, and my life won’t be changed based on my scores that day… so may as well chill and have some fun out there.

[honeydoozy]

@Bold Jax;2917482

I’ve been writing a monthly newsletter for the barn where I board. I’ve also scribed over 4,000 tests with about 18 judges (2 “O”).

Jax, I’ve got a question for you… (and I’m giggling as I type this)

In all your many moments of scribing, do you ever have times where you wonder if you can make your hand write some of the things a judge says? :lol:

A friend had a rather…animated… ride where, at one point, we weren’t certain if they would finish the test INSIDE the arena. The scribe wrote… “leaving!” (we all had a good laugh over that) I can see the judge saying “seriously…write that!”

Then… at our GMO’s championships this past year, I put in a less than stellar test (57%) and the comments were constructive for the most part, except one that …“smile is a “10”!” (hey, can I get a coefficient on that one??? :winkgrin:)

I love a judge with a sense of humor, but how do you decide how much of that humor gets actually written down!?!

[coloredhorse]

@honeydoozy;2924935

I love a judge with a sense of humor, but how do you decide how much of that humor gets actually written down!?!

You pretty quickly get a sense of it. And if you scribe alot in the same area, you will often get to know several judges and be able to predict how straight (or funny) they want the comments to be.

One of my favorites was a judge at a schooling show. Picture me on a green-ish horse in a shadowy indoor. Little Miss Thang decided she needed to jump the shadows from the windows down one long side. Every. Trip. Down. That. Side. Judge’s comment: “Horse wants to event! :)” (Yes, smiley face included.)

StrawberryFrosted, there is no rule covering swearing by the competitor during a test. Good thing! :lol: I wondered if the judge would be taken aback, but when I got back on track and glanced at her, both she and the scribe were grinning. I guess anyone who rides has a few “well, sh**” moments and can sympathize.

[Dressage_Art]

[QUOTE=StrawberryFrosted;2923346]
How does the judge know it’s not a fly or in my case something the horse can’t control?[/QUOTE]
They really can’t know 100%. In any case, head shaking is not helpful for the scores: it doesn’t help to show that the horse is submissive and it doesn’t help to show that the horse is accepting a bit. “Repeated” head shaking gets lower and lower scores with each movement. If judge thinks it might be a bug - she/he might “close her eyes” on that for 1-2 movements to give a chance to rider to deal with that. But if that persists in the several movements, judge can’t really blame it on the bug. If it is a bug - this rider should spray more fly spray to prevent that next time. However, there are exceptions, for example a show that is notoriously known for bugs and horses are covered with bugs, and then it’s treated totally different: it is a “special circumstances” and judge can not really take off any points for that.

Excessive profanity can be a reason for eliminating a rider from the ring. That goes under the rider loosing control and might be endangering her horse and herself. But the accidental blurb out “sh***” will get you only -2 for voice.