Frustrated at a perfect barn

[173north]

I have a sensitive green horse at a private barn with a lot of know-it-alls, and most of the other horses are very chill and older. I don’t let people distract me when I’m working with him - I just say “I’m sorry, I have to focus on my horse” and ignore them. If you need them to move because they’ve come over to physically “help,” say “He’s pretty nervous, can you give us some space?” He doesn’t have to be nervous… if he seems at all alert/animated they will probably take you at your word.

If they’re really friends, I might later say, “Hey, I appreciate you looking out for me, I know Dobbin can be a lot, but I need to have all my attention on him when we’re working. I have a trainer/have a plan/have lots of experience with this, but if I need your help I’ll ask.” Instead of chastising them, make it about YOU and what you need so they still feel ‘helpful.’

As someone currently in the middle of this, I will also say it’s important to make sure you are staying clear-eyed about the situation. You don’t want to get defensive and then dismiss true behavioral problems or pain as normal green horse stuff. You also don’t want them convincing you that your horse IS behaving in a concerning way if he isn’t. Do you have other horsey friends, a trainer, or an outside support system that can provide another opinion? I am actually moving my horse to a barn with a trainer who focuses on green horses and restarting OTTBs because I want to be around people with a similar philosophy to me, who are doing what I am doing, and who I trust CAN help me when I need it. I was getting so much questionable “advice,” pushback and judgement over what I felt were pretty normal aspects of bringing along a green horse that it was starting to make me feel crazy.

[Cinderella]

What’s the name of the thread?

[SuzieQNutter]

As above I would ask why they think you need the advice.

What actually happened when they ran in to take over the lunge?

Did the horse step backwards or start to back in side reins? Was he bucking and going forward either with or without side reins and you were telling him to go forward?

If he was bucking and you were telling him to go forward they didn’t need to do anything, if he was bucking and you were not telling him to go forward, then they would be correct to tell you to send him forward.

If he had taken even one backward step in sidereins then yes they need to step in and help. Horses have been maimed and killed by being incorrectly lunged. It is a life and death moment in time and it needs to be stopped immediately.

I have done this with hubby, Dodge is not young and is experienced at being lunged in side reins. I have taught hubby to always lunge without side reins and to lunge with too loose side reins first and to never pull the head in with side reins.

He started lunging Dodge without lunging him without side reins first, to make sure he was forward, and the reins were set for another horse. Dodge was going backwards, I dropped my horse’s rein, calling halt and he has been taught to stand still, and I ran to the other side of the arena, while yelling telling him what to do and because he did not react, I took over the lunge rein, halted Dodge and took off the side reins and started the lessons from the beginning again.

Always Safety First.

[endlessclimb]

@SuzieQNutter

If he had taken even one backward step in sidereins then yes they need to step in and help.

No. No they did not need to step in and help. If I was working a young horse and someone comes running at me yelling what to do when it’s not going picture perfect, I might be ready to commit a homicide.

Young horses do young horse things. It’s not always going to be foot-perfect and that’s fine. If you want foot-perfect, don’t get a young horse. As a matter of fact, don’t get horses period.

[clanter]

@Cinderella

What’s the name of the thread?

might be this one titled Harmony in the Barn in Farms section

Harmony in the barn

I need some advice; i.e. how to nip a problem in the bud. We have a boarding facility, 14 horses. Our boarders are all mature professional women and two men. The overall vibe is a nice place to ride, enjoy your horse, and get away from the pressures of the day etc. We do have a trainer on site. One of our boarders has initiated conversations with other boarders…she starts off with “I noticed this about your horse…have you thought of doing …” She is not a good rider and truth be told is a l…

[eightpondfarm]

Here and there…I have told my coach …to whom i pay a LOT of money: “don’t do that” (if she clucks to my horse. Step away from there please, (if she is body-blocking my horse so i can mount at the mounting block) Leave it (if i’ve dropped my crop). Please be quiet for a minute. (if she has told me to try something and i’ getting there) I can’t talk right now (if she is talking about something non-horse related…like painting the interior of her home) Go away (if i am not masked and she comes up to tighten the girth on opposite side) etc. I have zero qualms directing someone i consider an authority/expert. and she’s a top tier competitor. (apex predator i call her for fun)
And i certainly wouldn’t hesitate giving a ‘hard-correction’ to a friend at the rail.

If i had a good friend that came to the barn where i school, and if that person were to interject suggestions, i’d probably tuck it away and chew on it later, but i would be in ignore-mode during my session with my horse. I’d give her a few comments before i would ask her to please be quiet. And if that friend were to actually approach ??? LOL, i would say: GET OUT! without hesitation and emphatically. My horse training is my own private world…and when i’m in it there is not a whole lot of room for other people, regardless of their status in my life.

[Scribbler]

Again, as we talked about in the other thread, @eightpondfarm, you’ve identified as on the autism spectrum and you clearly know what kind of environment you function best in. That gives you the tremendous advantage in handling this type of situation, in needing to and being able to shut down irritating input. You have found a coach who knows and accepts your needs, and accepts this behavior from you.

Most of us are not in a position to tell our coach to STFU when they start making small talk. If we have not identified as neuroatypical we would be considered rude.

Also the problem here arises at larger boarding barns where there is a mix of people thrown together. You are most of the time not alone to work with your horse, and your private world is crisscrossed by many other people, who you wouldn’t give the time of day to if they weren’t in your barn.

When there are multiple people doing different things in the indoor arena, you have to be aware and navigate, which means you have to pay attention to them. You can’t just block them out.

[eightpondfarm]

am i as free to give my opinion here as anyone else is.
I actually don’t think it is as rude as you say it is to shush people. (like you just tried to shush me right here, albeit politely)
Though barn culture could be more haute than average environments and perhaps etiquette standards are higher. I think someone needs to write the book: Barn Etiquette

[Scribbler]

I wasn’t trying to shush you. Your advice was very sensible. It’s just that most of us are not free to act on it, for various reasons. I would very often like to be able to tell people to shut up. For me though that would often have other consequences that I don’t want.

[SuzieQNutter]

The difference here is that he was working my horse, not his own and when I say yelling I mean in an outside arena over the tractor working next door.

Also like a lot of men, sigh, hubby does not react in bad situations.

I know not all men, but they are different to women.

I have noticed with more than one male, standing there with mouth open, unable to move in different situations, but this one, stood there with his mouth open not able to talk for ages when the hay shed was destroyed in a storm, again when the water tank exploded through the windows of the house and the worm farm and stood there useless as I tried to gather up the compost worms, who were unhoused and drowning, or when the girl who came running at the truck in the dark, waving a phone, swearing her head off and calling out stop. At least in that one he did stand on the brakes and told me he did not think he would stop in time, but then left me and the truck just over a hill and without the emergency lights on. When I said turn them on he just said I don’t know where they are and disappeared.

I had to lean over and put the emergency lights on while calling out not to move the injured person in case he had hit his head.

Totally off topic but in the self defence course we were told to use this if attacked, men cannot change their thinking as quickly as we can. One woman saved herself from rape by faking an epileptic fit. He didn’t know what to do, he left. If you are attacked by a group of men, take out the leader and run, the rest go to help the leader who is down and screaming, go to stop you, go to help their leader and in their indecision you are gone.

I don’t know how well you know your friends or how well they know you, or what experience they have, however just because they are riding older well behaved horses now, does not mean they have no experience with younger unruly horses. Ask them why they felt they had to intervene. In my case Dodge was not just taking a step backwards. He was in danger.

You said they are good friends, by your post they have never intervened before. There must be a reason. You need to can your ego and find out. If they had good reason, accept it, learn from it. If they did not have a good reason, tell them to shelve their ideas and you would appreciate being left alone.

To be honest, I am experienced with lunging and even young horses just learning to lunge, do not buck on the lunge. When I bought Stars, he was still fairly young at the time, she said he bucked 100% of the time on the lunge. He has never bucked on the lunge for me. I often wonder why. What was she doing that she could not lunge him without bucking? I really do not know why. He is hoof perfect on the lunge and has been from Day 1.

I have leaned from this forum that what I call lunging can be miles apart from what other people are doing and call lunging. But only your friends know what they were seeing, ask them. I would do that before leaving the perfect barn. It sounds like you are at a good one and that seems to be rare.

[pony_grandma]

He’s FOUR!!

You say "A mother of a two yr child throwing a tantrum on the grocery store floor DOESN’T NEED your advice! Did you? (if they had children).

The nicest colt in the world turns into a 2 yr old/12yr old boy at 4 yrs of age.

[clanter]

@pony_grandma

A mother of a two yr child

well when that parent is allowing such behavior to persist they would usually refer to its age as 24 months (or refer to its Only 96 weeks old)

[MapleBreeze]

Take your youngster to a trainer’s for 30 days and swap out a few lessons for training ride days or have a trainer come give you a lesson at your barn.

They are just jealous your young horse is fancy. They will be more jealous when they see you progressing.

[hoopoe]

@Sleipnir I would love to hear how you are progressing with this situation. It is one many people face and I think it is helpful. Barn culture can be very complicated. You sounded very optimistic on your last post

[candyappy]

@clanter

well when that parent is allowing such behavior to persist they would usually refer to its age as 24 months (or refer to its Only 96 weeks old)

Sometimes a 2 year old kid ( or a young horse) is just having a bad day and needs to melt down. My preferred method is to just ignore the behavior and let it pass naturally on both horse and child.

I find it keeps things from escalating further and we can move on. It was not a common occurrence for my horses or children but it did happen now and again.

[SuzieQNutter]

The saying I heard quite often in our family after my father died:- the problem with my brother is that he got away with a tantrum in a Supermarket.

I, of course, have no idea if that is true.

[Sleipnir]

Thanks for the great advice, everyone, and sorry for the delayed update! I live only a thousand kilometers from the war in Ukraine, so my mind has been entirely elsewhere lately…

However, I have somewhat resolved the situation in maybe a slightly passive-aggressive way, but hey, it works! I have just started coming to the barn when there’s either nobody around, or I finish my stuff just as others arrive, so if they see anything, it’s either my updates on Facebook, or the shiny end result of a session. It’s been heaven, honestly, and nobody has any grounds to be offended too! Have reached several milestones with my youngster already and felt so much more at peace when there were no railbirds to observe our first full lap at trot around the arena off-lunge.

[OverandOnward]

@Sleipnir

I have just started coming to the barn when there’s either nobody around, or I finish my stuff just as others arrive,

With luck they clue in to why this is, and take the point in case of future opportunities to critique you.

Congrats on a peaceful solution and on the progress with your youngster!

[Haybert]

Does this barn owner handle your horse when you are not around? I mean turnout, moving stalls, etc.?

If so, then you need to make sure he has good manners. Period. My horse is big and can be spooky to some people, but he’s a gentleman on the ground because I am not the one who does turnout all the time.

As someone who HAS had to handle my share of “oh he’s just excited” jerks (and I mean dragged across pastures by ponies who could only be handled if bridled) there is no problem making sure they are good to work with.

jmho, ymmv, fftd

[EssexFells]

Before I even got to the part about the problem, alarm bells were going off in my head that you may be excusing misbehavior in a young horse by referrring to his prior handling, being emotional, etc. So I second Beowulf’s advice to consider whether you would benefit from one or two sessions with a pro to observe you and get pointers.

But no matter what, say to your friends before you head into the arena: “Hey, when I work with Dobbin, more and more I’ve been getting a lot of criticism from the rail, and it’s starting to take away my enjoyment of my time here. I know we may have different training approaches, and I don’t claim to be perfect, but I’m going to trust my instincts and try it my way for the time being. Can I count on you to let me work Dobbin without all the critiques?”

They’re going to instantly protest that it’s not criticism, it’s just helpful advice. Cut them off and say “well it’s unsolicited advice telling me how I should be doing something differently. In the moment, while I’ve got a horse on the other end of the leadrope who needs my full attention, I really don’t have the bandwidth to figure out how that’s not criticism. Can I count on you to respect this?”

The “Can I count on you…” structure is a powerful trick and gets cooperation better than “Will you…”

These conversations are never, ever as hard as they seem like they’re going to be. And if these are your friends they’ll totally respect your wish. But if you really don’t want to have this kind of conversation, you can also just use humor “Geez, you guys are like a bunch of snotty teenagers at a show barn. Maybe when I’m done in here you can critique what I’m wearing too.” And then ignore.

What did you say to the person who jumped into your longeing space? If you haven’t read her the riot act already, you absolutely need to do it. “Jane, I’ve been thinking about the other day when you tried to take the longe line away from me. You can talk to me after I’m done working Dobbin if you feel you must, but what you did was dangerous and it can never happen again.” Guarantee she’ll say something like I thought you were in danger and needed help. (which may be true-- you need to accept that even if YOU thought you had it under control, it may not have looked that way from the rail). But don’t get sucked into that. “Your action made the situation much worse and it can’t happen again.” If she continues to defend, say something like “I am not asking you to agree with my thinking. I’m setting a clear boundary, that I don’t want you to ever do something like that again. Can I count on you to respect that?”